Essential Japanese Wrestling Discussion/News

[Jmare007]

Nakamura probably would have been in the same position wether he went to Vince or anywhere else. It worked for Asuka only because they wanted to market womens wrestling. But outside of that we got our Tatsu's, Shinzaki's, Nakano's. Its never a long term deal no matter how much buzz you have.

Idk if WWE is seen as the big deal they portray outside of their hype machine but it seems to me that people go for money not clout.

I'm not sure what's your point breh.

And no, Nakamura wouldn't be the same if he didn't went to WWE and just spent a few years elsewhere.

I'm curious to see Nak's work ethic when he returns to New Japan.

He's gonna be so fukking lazy it's gonna be he'll probably still bring it from time to time if the match is worth it though. Basically the same as always (in New Japan) but his lows are gonna be lower

Thats if you are a lesser star. So maybe for a young lion, if they wanted that, thats what it would be. And essentially thats what learning excursions would do for you anyway. You go somewhere, learn their way for a year or two then come back to be a star.

Nowadays is harder if you are already a star because there's nowhere else to go. Choshu got fed up with Inoki and revolutionized All Japan - and wrestling in Japan for that matter - before he went back as a way bigger deal. Maeda took shyt to a whole nother level creating UWF.

In the 90's Tenryu created his own thing, same with Onita (well, 89').

00's Hashimoto failed with Zero One and Misawa lasted 6 years with NOAH before things went to shyt. Though both of those cases weren't about having a higher status.

Mutoh tried to do it with All Japan, didn't work. And then with W-1 and look at what happened.

The only way a guy like Nakamura or Naito could get a bump on their status is make something happened in the one place puro promotions still treat as a game changer: WWE.

 

[stro]

I'm more interested/concerned about if his highs can be as high

 

[Jmare007]

 

[krackdagawd]

There's no video of it any more since it happened like eight years ago on UStream, but when they were still trying to build hype for the Mayweather Pacquiao fight that wouldn't happen till a few years latter, breh said "After I beat his ass, I'm gonna make him fix me some sushi and rice"

shyt was hilarious, and admittedly, racist at the same time.

Mayweather aint doing none of that today.

 

[Legal]

Mayweather aint doing none of that today.

Probably not, but I'm in for all kinds of Mayweather in Japan fukkery.

 

[Beautiful Bobby Eatin]

I'm not sure what's your point breh.

And no, Nakamura wouldn't be the same if he didn't went to WWE and just spent a few years elsewhere.



He's gonna be so fukking lazy it's gonna be he'll probably still bring it from time to time if the match is worth it though. Basically the same as always (in New Japan) but his lows are gonna be lower



Nowadays is harder if you are already a star because there's nowhere else to go. Choshu got fed up with Inoki and revolutionized All Japan - and wrestling in Japan for that matter - before he went back as a way bigger deal. Maeda took shyt to a whole nother level creating UWF.

In the 90's Tenryu created his own thing, same with Onita (well, 89').

00's Hashimoto failed with Zero One and Misawa lasted 6 years with NOAH before things went to shyt. Though both of those cases weren't about having a higher status.

Mutoh tried to do it with All Japan, didn't work. And then with W-1 and look at what happened.

The only way a guy like Nakamura or Naito could get a bump on their status is make something happened in the one place puro promotions still treat as a game changer: WWE.

Nakamura would have at worst been bumped down to NEVER Openweight contention. The Okada push was strong when he left and he was making the IC belt look top tier so I dont know what going to WWE is supposed to have changed other than maybe motivating him when he comes back to Japan. Even in exposure, most fans who watch anything other than WWE knew who he was.

For your other point though, youre absolutely right. I remember the World Japan fiasco as well. The Mutoh thing is actually more sad though. But I cant see WWE being this big game changer for an established guy in Japan. Tanahashi, Okada, Naito, Omega or Ibushi dont need them so im not sure why Nakamura did unleas it was simply on his bucket list like AJ.

 

[Jmare007]

Nakamura would have at worst been bumped down to NEVER Openweight contention. The Okada push was strong when he left and he was making the IC belt look top tier so I dont know what going to WWE is supposed to have changed other than maybe motivating him when he comes back to Japan. Even in exposure, most fans who watch anything other than WWE knew who he was.

breh, Nakamura will most likely be treated like a gawd once he returns. Instead of falling off to a post 07' Yugi Nagata status, he'll be prime Mutoh/Hashimoto status.

How can you not see the difference between staying in New Japan and meandering for years - with a few token IWGP filler title challenges - and going to the US, a place puro promotions see as a huge deal no matter what, and becoming the most successful japanese wrestler (kayfabe wise) ever overseas?

He stays, he clearly has a ceiling, that's one of the reasons why he left. He leaves and succeeds (like he has, kayfabe wise) and he can be the n°1 guy in New Japan again, get the most money, and do whatever the fukk he wants in other promotions.

For your other point though, youre absolutely right. I remember the World Japan fiasco as well. The Mutoh thing is actually more sad though. But I cant see WWE being this big game changer for an established guy in Japan. Tanahashi, Okada, Naito, Omega or Ibushi dont need them so im not sure why Nakamura did unleas it was simply on his bucket list like AJ.

I mean, I'm sure going to WWE was more about money and see if he could actually "make it" there. But that all happens because he had clearly hit a wall booking wise and Gedo had no intentions of making him anything more than IC champ and most likely, Yugi Nagata 2.0 in the short term.

 

[Beautiful Bobby Eatin]

breh, Nakamura will most likely be treated like a gawd once he returns. Instead of falling off to a post 07' Yugi Nagata status, he'll be prime Mutoh/Hashimoto status.

How can you not see the difference between staying in New Japan and meandering for years - with a few token IWGP filler title challenges - and going to the US, a place puro promotions see as a huge deal no matter what, and becoming the most successful japanese wrestler (kayfabe wise) ever overseas?

He stays, he clearly has a ceiling, that's one of the reasons why he left. He leaves and succeeds (like he has, kayfabe wise) and he can be the n°1 guy in New Japan again, get the most money, and do whatever the fukk he wants in other promotions.



I mean, I'm sure going to WWE was more about money and see if he could actually "make it" there. But that all happens because he had clearly hit a wall booking wise and Gedo had no intentions of making him anything more than IC champ and most likely, Yugi Nagata 2.0 in the short term.

Im sure he will come back as a conquring hero but in his entire time in WWE has he ever reached a level above where he was with Gedo three years prior? I guess he did OK in developmental but his year and a half on smackdown has been booked almost as bad as Gedo would have anyway. You dont think hes been floundering on SD breh?

 

[MenacingMonk]

Im sure he will come back as a conquring hero but in his entire time in WWE has he ever reached a level above where he was with Gedo three years prior? I guess he did OK in developmental but his year and a half on smackdown has been booked almost as bad as Gedo would have anyway. You dont think hes been floundering on SD breh?

Can you name any other “successful” Japanese talent from the past 3 decades to do well in the states? Only one I can think of is Ultimo Dragon.

Not guys like Muta and Lyger. I’m talking about talent that stayed with a fed for an extended period of time. Did the house shows, PPVs, media, etc.

Naka may not be a success in terms of booking and titles, but he’s over and did well with what he was given.

 

[Beautiful Bobby Eatin]

Can you name any other “successful” Japanese talent from the past 3 decades to do well in the states? Only one I can think of is Ultimo Dragon.

Not guys like Muta and Lyger. I’m talking about talent that stayed with a fed for an extended period of time. Did the house shows, PPVs, media, etc.

Naka may not be a success in terms of booking and titles, but he’s over and did well for what he was given.

I cant and thats my point. Theres usually nothing in it for them. If Nakamura wanted to escape the terrible booking he was going to be in im not sure if that happened. The only difference between where he is and where he was is the arenas are larger

 

[Jmare007]

Im sure he will come back as a conquring hero but in his entire time in WWE has he ever reached a level above where he was with Gedo three years prior? I guess he did OK in developmental but his year and a half on smackdown has been booked almost as bad as Gedo would have anyway. You dont think hes been floundering on SD breh?

Hell yes, at least in terms of what Japanese promotions see as success and/or status. Nakamura won the fukking Royal Rumble, had a WWE title match at Wrestlemania and became a US champion. That's by far the most accomplished run by a japenese wrestler overseas.

I'm not talking about how he's booked in WWE - everyone is made to look like just another guy, and Nakamura hasn't helped himself by being just ok in the ring - that's irrelevant for what I've been saying. What Shinsuke already accomplished is more than enough.

The basic question was "why leave for WWE when you might be misused anyway?". Well, because you'll probably be perceived as a bigger star once you come back, and if you get a 3-5 month run of being heavily promoted - like Naka and Asuka did, and for longer than that - then you are set forever.

I cant and thats my point. Theres usually nothing in it for them. If Nakamura wanted to escape the terrible booking he was going to be in im not sure if that happened. The only difference between where he is and where he was is the arenas are larger

Nothing in it for them? Breh, there's money and a perpetuity of bookings (and respect, in most cases) in Japan.

The difference between staying and leaving is what you become after you leave. fukk the booking, you were on WWE TV for years. You add to that any sort of success or titles? that's even better. An established run in main events and/or as a champ? = teflon for life.

fukking KENSO last less than 2 years in the main roster, and was fukking HORRIBLE as a wrestler. And he still managed to scam people in Japan for years, dude main evented All Together for fukks sakes

 

[Scottie Drippin]

I cant and thats my point. Theres usually nothing in it for them. If Nakamura wanted to escape the terrible booking he was going to be in im not sure if that happened. The only difference between where he is and where he was is the arenas are larger

You're missing the point.

Nak's success in the US on the puro scale is titantic. No Japanese wrestler has gotten to the level he has, with world title challenges on major shows.

You're comparing apples to apples when it's apples to oranges.

Foreign moves that were a fraction as successful as Nak's rewarded dudes tremendously.

When it comes to puro success in the US he is now GOD.

He challenged for the historic WWE title at WRESTLE MANIA.

He didn't escape bad booking by getting better booking in the US. He escaped bad booking in Japan by making it the US at a level NO ONE has even come close to.

When he comes back it's game over. NJ has to book him up top because if not AJ will and he's so over now he'll put a super no vacancy in Sumo Hall first night no questions asked.

Sheeeeeeeet they could prolly do 25/30 in the Tokyo Dome if they had his first match back.

That's what we mean. Naka is going to move the needle in Japan more than anyone does in the world when he goes back.

 

[Beautiful Bobby Eatin]

Hell yes, at least in terms of what Japanese promotions see as success and/or status. Nakamura won the fukking Royal Rumble, had a WWE title match at Wrestlemania and became a US champion. That's by far the most accomplished run by a japenese wrestler overseas.

I'm not talking about how he's booked in WWE - everyone is made to look like just another guy, and Nakamura hasn't helped himself by being just ok in the ring - that's irrelevant for what I've been saying. What Shinsuke already accomplished is more than enough.

The basic question was "why leave for WWE when you might be misused anyway?". Well, because you'll probably be perceived as a bigger star once you come back, and if you get a 3-5 month run of being heavily promoted - like Naka and Asuka did, and for longer than that - then you are set forever.



Nothing in it for them? Breh, there's money and a perpetuity of bookings (and respect, in most cases) in Japan.

The difference between staying and leaving is what you become after you leave. fukk the booking, you were on WWE TV for years. You add to that any sort of success or titles? that's even better. An established run in main events and/or as a champ? = teflon for life.

fukking KENSO last less than 2 years in the main roster, and was fukking HORRIBLE as a wrestler. And he still managed to scam people in Japan for years, dude main evented All Together for fukks sakes

Holy shyt I forgot about KENSO ok breh i get it now

 

[Legal]

His shytty booking really makes people forget how big Nakamura's run is for foreign wrestlers.

He's the first Japanese wrestler to win the Royal Rumble, which is technically the second most important match each year in the WWE, behind the WM main event.

If they ever manage to sign other Japanese talent and have moderate success, he and Asuka will be seen as trailblazers. shyt, if he doesn't burn any bridges in his way out, he'll probably even get into the WWE hall of fame in one of those years they feel like showing how "progressive" they are.

Homie is set to coast on legendary status for life when he goes back to Japan.

 

[Shaq]

Posted some of these before but forgot to add spoilers. I suggest checking out all of his videos when you've got time.

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