Essential Japanese Wrestling Discussion/News

[Beautiful Bobby Eatin]

Some more news to digest while the BOSJ plays itself out...

Spoiler

Keiji Mutoh to leave All Japan Pro Wrestling, chaos ensues - Cageside Seats

If you don't want to read the article, Keiji Mutoh is leaving AJPW after what was basically a double-cross. It was expected that Mutoh was to become the next president of the company (you see, owner Nobuo Shiraishi the crazy guy fired the last one, who basically taught him about the wrestling business), but rather than appoint Mutoh, Shiraishi appointed himself. As a result Mutoh is leaving All Japan at the end of the month.

Here's the kicker: Contracts are coming up at the end of the month and, according to reports, a LOT of wrestlers are not happy with the way that the company is being run. Add to this the fact that Mutoh is apparently attempting to find backers to either buy AJPW back from Shiraishi or start a new promotion altogether, and it seems like All Japan is a full scale clusterfukk at this point.

For fukk's sake.

I really wanted to believe this was a worked shoot angle like Chikara probably is (ill comment on this when I find the indy thread again) but this collapse seems to be real. Mutoh should have never had to step down as prez to begin with. fukk what Taru did.

 

[Scottie Drippin]

I really wanted to believe this was a worked shoot angle like Chikara probably is (ill comment on this when I find the indy thread again) but this collapse seems to be real. Mutoh should have never had to step down as prez to begin with. fukk what Taru did.

What's going down with Chikara?

 

[The Push Man]

What's going down with Chikara?

At the end of yesterday's CHIKARA Never Compromise iPPV in Philadelphia, the main event Grand Championship match between Eddie Kingston & Icarus ended in a no contest when Condor Security & Director of Fun Wink Vavessur abruptly ended the show. They got Kingston, Icarus & referee Bryce Remsburg out of the ring, tore down the CHIKARA set and kicked out the live crowd as the iPPV feed on Smart Mark Video abruptly ended, Sopranos-style.

Mike Johnson is reporting that CHIKARA has canceled all future shows in 2013 and has ran its last show for quite some time. It is unknown whether this is CHIKARA's last show or just part of some intricate angle, which given the history of CHIKARA, could be the latter. CHIKARA's sister promotions under the "Wrestling Is......" banner will still be running shows in the foreseeable future. It is said that small groups of the roster were spoken to during the show about what was to go on and they were also asked to sign non-disclosure agreements before the event took place. It is also said that a number of CHIKARA wrestlers have started calling up independent promotions to look for bookings for dates that were originally scheduled to be for CHIKARA.

After the show ended abruptly, there was said to be 2 incidents involving fans who were upset about the end of the show. One fan shoulderblocked the front glass door of the Trocadero Theatre where the show was held, breaking the glass on the door, while another refused to leave until he got a refund and finally left after the Trocadero Theatre management threatened to call the police on the fan. The fan incidents were said to be described as "the worst stereotypical wrestling fan tantrum you could imagine".

 

[Scottie Drippin]

 

[TrueEpic08]

As much as that CHIKARA ending screams "WORK!", I will say that I've heard some things that would lead to me terming this less a work for the sake of a storyline, and more of an indefinite hiatus to outright company shutdown caused by legitimate issues in Mike Quackenbush's life and financial issues stemming from Joshimania 2 years ago.

But everything is so murky and convoluted (along with CHIKARA marks' penchant for attempting to spin everything into yet another example of Quack's genius...jackasses...) that no one seems to be able to tell for sure.

 

[Beautiful Bobby Eatin]

As much as that CHIKARA ending screams "WORK!", I will say that I've heard some things that would lead to me terming this less a work for the sake of a storyline, and more of an indefinite hiatus to outright company shutdown caused by legitimate issues in Mike Quackenbush's life and financial issues stemming from Joshimania 2 years ago.

But everything is so murky and convoluted (along with CHIKARA marks' penchant for attempting to spin everything into yet another example of Quack's genius...jackasses...) that no one seems to be able to tell for sure.

It happened at an anniversary show so thats why I think its a work. The problems between he and his wife (who allegedly is pretty well off ) seem to be real but I think he meant for this to go off as being a hiatus until he starts the next season. Pity too because I was really liking what they were doing with Icarus as a face.

 

[TrueEpic08]

It happened at an anniversary show so thats why I think its a work. The problems between he and his wife (who allegedly is pretty well off ) seem to be real but I think he meant for this to go off as being a hiatus until he starts the next season. Pity too because I was really liking what they were doing with Icarus as a face.

Here's my thought on it: If it's a work, I'm not exactly sure what he's trying to get out of it, especially considering that he did a bait and switch on a lot of fans by falsely advertising shows that hadn't been booked at all (there were people that were legit pissed about that) and presenting a show that ends in a gross Sports Entertainment Finish and no promise of a payoff anytime soon. I understand what Quack's trying to do, but he has to factor in the fact that new fans don't put anywhere near the same amount of trust in his booking that CHIKARA marks do, along with the fact that fukking over the fans, then expecting them to give a fukk about something that MIGHT come months down the line (if at all) is pretty ridiculous. If that had been, say, an ECW show, there would've been a full scale riot. It screams bad decision-making.

If it's real, and this is Quack's way of killing off the CHIKARA name (either wholesale, or just as a way to transition to running his work mainly through the Wrestling Is...banner), then it seems really stupid to kill off your company in the middle of a wrestling angle that is fated to have no resolution. If you ever book again, why should anyone trust you after you gave them the most massive fukk over possible? Quack already books in a really inaccessible way, why run the risk of alienating your fanbase like this? To me, it just doesn't make a whole lot of sense to kill off a company like this, but since CHIKARA is basically Quackenbush's insulated mark playground, I wouldn't put it past him.

So yeah, I don't think this is a smart decision either way.

By the way, do you think either of the rumors going around about CHIKARA have any truth to them? Either the one about there being an issue with the CHIKARA name and IP (which I've heard is related to his marital problems, and if what I heard is true, would make me think that Quack is a very short-sighted man) or there being an issue with the finances of the company? There's a lot of weirdness going on with some of the CHIKARA workers that makes me think there's more to those rumors than just being, you know, outlandish rumors.

 

[Beautiful Bobby Eatin]

Here's my thought on it: If it's a work, I'm not exactly sure what he's trying to get out of it, especially considering that he did a bait and switch on a lot of fans by falsely advertising shows that hadn't been booked at all (there were people that were legit pissed about that) and presenting a show that ends in a gross Sports Entertainment Finish and no promise of a payoff anytime soon. I understand what Quack's trying to do, but he has to factor in the fact that new fans don't put anywhere near the same amount of trust in his booking that CHIKARA marks do, along with the fact that fukking over the fans, then expecting them to give a fukk about something that MIGHT come months down the line (if at all) is pretty ridiculous. If that had been, say, an ECW show, there would've been a full scale riot. It screams bad decision-making.

If it's real, and this is Quack's way of killing off the CHIKARA name (either wholesale, or just as a way to transition to running his work mainly through the Wrestling Is...banner), then it seems really stupid to kill off your company in the middle of a wrestling angle that is fated to have no resolution. If you ever book again, why should anyone trust you after you gave them the most massive fukk over possible? Quack already books in a really inaccessible way, why run the risk of alienating your fanbase like this? To me, it just doesn't make a whole lot of sense to kill off a company like this, but since CHIKARA is basically Quackenbush's insulated mark playground, I wouldn't put it past him.

So yeah, I don't think this is a smart decision either way.

By the way, do you think either of the rumors going around about CHIKARA have any truth to them? Either the one about there being an issue with the CHIKARA name and IP (which I've heard is related to his marital problems, and if what I heard is true, would make me think that Quack is a very short-sighted man) or there being an issue with the finances of the company? There's a lot of weirdness going on with some of the CHIKARA workers that makes me think there's more to those rumors than just being, you know, outlandish rumors.

See thats why im conflicted. I dont hold Quack in the high regard that Chikara marks do, yet I dont think hes stupid enough to do a non finish on his anniversary show. I saw the show as it happened and I was confused by the finish. It screams that it will continue with the Janetty cliffhanger alone. The fact that only a few of the workers signed nondisclosure contracts makes me think that this is Quack going for some sort of Montreal screwjob kinda buzz which has kinda(?) worked. Considering we havent seen the Bucks and i STILL dont know why Sugar Dunkerton quit Chikara this time, I would say theres alot more to this.

Lets face it, Chikara has been strange booking the past year or so. (3 versions of the colony, REALLY?!) So if this is some elaborate ruse I wont be completely shocked.

To answer the rumors question, I do believe the rumors about his wife but I dont think she can complete muscle him out of Chikara's name unless he REALLY fukkED UP.

Speaking of the booking what do you think of the theory ive heard, that the weird booking has to do with Eddie Kingston doing the Backfist to the Future to Archie and REALLY sending him to the future

 

[TrueEpic08]

See thats why im conflicted. I dont hold Quack in the high regard that Chikara marks do, yet I dont think hes stupid enough to do a non finish on his anniversary show. I saw the show as it happened and I was confused by the finish. It screams that it will continue with the Janetty cliffhanger alone. The fact that only a few of the workers signed nondisclosure contracts makes me think that this is Quack going for some sort of Montreal screwjob kinda buzz which has kinda(?) worked. Considering we havent seen the Bucks and i STILL dont know why Sugar Dunkerton quit Chikara this time, I would say theres alot more to this.

Lets face it, Chikara has been strange booking the past year or so. (3 versions of the colony, REALLY?!) So if this is some elaborate ruse I wont be completely shocked.

To answer the rumors question, I do believe the rumors about his wife but I dont think she can complete muscle him out of Chikara's name unless he REALLY fukkED UP.

Speaking of the booking what do you think of the theory ive heard, that the weird booking has to do with Eddie Kingston doing the Backfist to the Future to Archie and REALLY sending him to the future

I just read through that storyline, and all I have to say is this: If Russo booked anything even half as convoluted as this, fans would try to hang him. I mean, the BdK build up was dense as well, but it at least made sense. This LARPing garbage barely even coheres, much less makes sense. The fukk does this have to do with wrestling, even in the CHIKARA sense?

Edit: On the divorce front, ALLEGEDLY, his wife's the one who's been financing this whole CHIKARA thing. If so, then it's completely plausible that the name, IP, and the like would be registered in her name. And if that is the case, CHIKARA is DEAD. Dead, dead, dead, and probably not ever coming back.

I also heard the person he cheated on his wife with was Saturyne. Take this, as with everything else I've written about CHIKARA's fate, with bags of Morton's.

 

[desp]

Longtime poster here, been an occasional lurker since the switch over here, but this CHIKARA angle made me wanna post. First of all, good to see the indys still getting some love in TSC.

I'm still convinced it's a work. An elaborate one, but a work regardless. There are too many cliffhangers left unanswered for that to be their final show (Jannetty, the ridiculous time traveling, etc.). Quackenbush didn't appear due to his kayfabe firing, but when your promotion is really going under, kayfabe is not an issue. No way Quack would have ended it like that.

Also, the whole storyline of Titor Conglomerate buying out CHIKARA has been taken to such an extreme that it CAN'T be real. Posts on the CHIKARA forum about Titor are being deleted and users banned. Even reading that back, it sounds like something out of a TV show.

Finally, what I feel is the most convincing argument that this is all an elaborate work, the cancelled shows - the July 20th show still has a page up with information. Every other event down the list leads to the same 404 error page that contains a link back to the July 20th show. If these shows were really going to be cancelled, why keep up the July 20th page and link the other shows back to it?



From a business standpoint, it's a terrible idea. "Cancelling" shows that some people have already purchased plane tickets for, requested off work, etc. is not good business. Plenty of fans are upset by this whole angle.

From a wrestling storyline standpoint, it's absolutely brilliant. I don't think CHIKARA has ever had so much buzz, it's actually got people questioning the "realness," and even people who aren't CHIKARA fans are interested to see what comes of it. All we can do is wait and see.

 

[Cole Cash]

Longtime poster here, been an occasional lurker since the switch over here, but this CHIKARA angle made me wanna post. First of all, good to see the indys still getting some love in TSC.

I'm still convinced it's a work. An elaborate one, but a work regardless. There are too many cliffhangers left unanswered for that to be their final show (Jannetty, the ridiculous time traveling, etc.). Quackenbush didn't appear due to his kayfabe firing, but when your promotion is really going under, kayfabe is not an issue. No way Quack would have ended it like that.

Also, the whole storyline of Titor Conglomerate buying out CHIKARA has been taken to such an extreme that it CAN'T be real. Posts on the CHIKARA forum about Titor are being deleted and users banned. Even reading that back, it sounds like something out of a TV show.

Finally, what I feel is the most convincing argument that this is all an elaborate work, the cancelled shows - the July 20th show still has a page up with information. Every other event down the list leads to the same 404 error page that contains a link back to the July 20th show. If these shows were really going to be cancelled, why keep up the July 20th page and link the other shows back to it?



From a business standpoint, it's a terrible idea. "Cancelling" shows that some people have already purchased plane tickets for, requested off work, etc. is not good business. Plenty of fans are upset by this whole angle.

From a wrestling storyline standpoint, it's absolutely brilliant. I don't think CHIKARA has ever had so much buzz, it's actually got people questioning the "realness," and even people who aren't CHIKARA fans are interested to see what comes of it. All we can do is wait and see.

Titor ...as in, John Titor

of course its not real.

 

[TrueEpic08]

Longtime poster here, been an occasional lurker since the switch over here, but this CHIKARA angle made me wanna post. First of all, good to see the indys still getting some love in TSC.

I'm still convinced it's a work. An elaborate one, but a work regardless. There are too many cliffhangers left unanswered for that to be their final show (Jannetty, the ridiculous time traveling, etc.). Quackenbush didn't appear due to his kayfabe firing, but when your promotion is really going under, kayfabe is not an issue. No way Quack would have ended it like that.

Also, the whole storyline of Titor Conglomerate buying out CHIKARA has been taken to such an extreme that it CAN'T be real. Posts on the CHIKARA forum about Titor are being deleted and users banned. Even reading that back, it sounds like something out of a TV show.

Finally, what I feel is the most convincing argument that this is all an elaborate work, the cancelled shows - the July 20th show still has a page up with information. Every other event down the list leads to the same 404 error page that contains a link back to the July 20th show. If these shows were really going to be cancelled, why keep up the July 20th page and link the other shows back to it?



From a business standpoint, it's a terrible idea. "Cancelling" shows that some people have already purchased plane tickets for, requested off work, etc. is not good business. Plenty of fans are upset by this whole angle.

From a wrestling storyline standpoint, it's absolutely brilliant. I don't think CHIKARA has ever had so much buzz, it's actually got people questioning the "realness," and even people who aren't CHIKARA fans are interested to see what comes of it. All we can do is wait and see.

That arena isn't booked on July 20th for a CHIKARA show. People have called it and were told that it was never booked on that day for a CHIKARA show. It isn't happening. It IS booked (legit) for a Wrestling Is...show on June 22nd.

There's also been rumblings from the CHIKARA 101 forums and PWInsider about the company liquidating all remaining physical assets. It's a worked message from Titor, but seeing as PWInsider is reporting it as legit, Mike Johnson tends to attempt to be as legit as possible with these types of things, I'd suspect that there's at least grain of truth to it.

A couple of other things to consider:

1). Quack is a strange guy. Not just with the OCD, but in the way that he runs (ran, I suppose) CHIKARA altogether. Seeing as he had to be cowed into giving his Wrestle Factory instructing partner a $25 per match raise, and then only if he did a bunch of crap like promote CHIKARA on forums, then proceeded to flip his shyt when said instructing partner decided to prioritize living, training, and making money in the NOAH dojo over wrestling monthly for CHIKARA for $100 per night, I would not at all put it past him to wrap the real dissolution of his promotion in kayfabe.

2). Here's the thing about your promotion/wrestling dichotomy: One doesn't exist at this point. Whether it is a work, shoot, or something inbetween, the fact of the matter is that there is no CHIKARA for the foreseeable future, therefore, there is no wrestling side to CHIKARA for the foreseeable future. What you're left with are a bunch of fans left with a massive bait and switch of an ending, with no resolution in sight. All that's left is the hope that there will be resolution to the CHIKARA story. How long do you think it's going to take for fans to stop giving a shyt and focus their time on something else? When their patience (already severely tested at this point) wears thin, they will leave CHIKARA in the dust, probably NOT check out the Wrestling Is...shows, and do something else. And there is no guarantee that they will come back.

And let's say that they do end up coming back. What happens if the follow-up bombs? Then you've screwed over the fans in two ways, eroded their confidence again, and given them even less of a reason to trust you. Given that Quack's booking has gotten more and more impenetrable as he's gone along, I don't think he can really afford to do that.

Don't get me started on how dumb this is if it's a shoot, and instead of telling their fans that the company as they know it is gone, Quack just wrapped it in a wrestling angle to distract the fanbase.

In any way that you think of it, the negatives far outweigh the positives. Just because you get attention for something doesn't mean that it is good or beneficial attention (See: WCW; Russo, Vince).

 

[desp]

That arena isn't booked on July 20th for a CHIKARA show. People have called it and were told that it was never booked on that day for a CHIKARA show. It isn't happening. It IS booked (legit) for a Wrestling Is...show on June 22nd.

There's also been rumblings from the CHIKARA 101 forums and PWInsider about the company liquidating all remaining physical assets. It's a worked message from Titor, but seeing as PWInsider is reporting it as legit, Mike Johnson tends to attempt to be as legit as possible with these types of things, I'd suspect that there's at least grain of truth to it.

A couple of other things to consider:

1). Quack is a strange guy. Not just with the OCD, but in the way that he runs (ran, I suppose) CHIKARA altogether. Seeing as he had to be cowed into giving his Wrestle Factory instructing partner a $25 per match raise, and then only if he did a bunch of crap like promote CHIKARA on forums, then proceeded to flip his shyt when said instructing partner decided to prioritize living, training, and making money in the NOAH dojo over wrestling monthly for CHIKARA for $100 per night, I would not at all put it past him to wrap the real dissolution of his promotion in kayfabe.

2). Here's the thing about your promotion/wrestling dichotomy: One doesn't exist at this point. Whether it is a work, shoot, or something inbetween, the fact of the matter is that there is no CHIKARA for the foreseeable future, therefore, there is no wrestling side to CHIKARA for the foreseeable future. What you're left with are a bunch of fans left with a massive bait and switch of an ending, with no resolution in sight. All that's left is the hope that there will be resolution to the CHIKARA story. How long do you think it's going to take for fans to stop giving a shyt and focus their time on something else? When their patience (already severely tested at this point) wears thin, they will leave CHIKARA in the dust, probably NOT check out the Wrestling Is...shows, and do something else. And there is no guarantee that they will come back.

And let's say that they do end up coming back. What happens if the follow-up bombs? Then you've screwed over the fans in two ways, eroded their confidence again, and given them even less of a reason to trust you. Given that Quack's booking has gotten more and more impenetrable as he's gone along, I don't think he can really afford to do that.

Don't get me started on how dumb this is if it's a shoot, and instead of telling their fans that the company as they know it is gone, Quack just wrapped it in a wrestling angle to distract the fanbase.

In any way that you think of it, the negatives far outweigh the positives. Just because you get attention for something doesn't mean that it is good or beneficial attention (See: WCW; Russo, Vince).

All very interesting points.

Now that I take all that into consideration, the "Wrestling Is..." theory seems to hold more ground. If CHIKARA as a brand is really finished due to Quack's personal problems, it's not farfetched to assume that Quack worked that into the "Titor takeover" storyline. So, hypothetically, CHIKARA will live vicariously through eight (?) different Wrestling Is... promotions. Sadly, that will probably alienate even more fans, especially new ones, because that's a lot to take in. So I'd agree that the negatives far outweigh the positives, long or short-term.

Anyway, back on the thread's topic of Japanese wrestling - just finished the June 1st BOSJ show, impressive as usual. Anyone else check it yet?

 

[Beautiful Bobby Eatin]

I just read through that storyline, and all I have to say is this: If Russo booked anything even half as convoluted as this, fans would try to hang him. I mean, the BdK build up was dense as well, but it at least made sense. This LARPing garbage barely even coheres, much less makes sense. The fukk does this have to do with wrestling, even in the CHIKARA sense?

Edit: On the divorce front, ALLEGEDLY, his wife's the one who's been financing this whole CHIKARA thing. If so, then it's completely plausible that the name, IP, and the like would be registered in her name. And if that is the case, CHIKARA is DEAD. Dead, dead, dead, and probably not ever coming back.

I also heard the person he cheated on his wife with was Saturyne. Take this, as with everything else I've written about CHIKARA's fate, with bags of Morton's.

idk what his wife looks like bit Saturnye can get it. She aint worth losing a marriage/company over. And who would book that homewreckin bytch now? Just some stupid shyt all around.

Longtime poster here, been an occasional lurker since the switch over here, but this CHIKARA angle made me wanna post. First of all, good to see the indys still getting some love in TSC.

I'm still convinced it's a work. An elaborate one, but a work regardless. There are too many cliffhangers left unanswered for that to be their final show (Jannetty, the ridiculous time traveling, etc.). Quackenbush didn't appear due to his kayfabe firing, but when your promotion is really going under, kayfabe is not an issue. No way Quack would have ended it like that.

Also, the whole storyline of Titor Conglomerate buying out CHIKARA has been taken to such an extreme that it CAN'T be real. Posts on the CHIKARA forum about Titor are being deleted and users banned. Even reading that back, it sounds like something out of a TV show.

Finally, what I feel is the most convincing argument that this is all an elaborate work, the cancelled shows - the July 20th show still has a page up with information. Every other event down the list leads to the same 404 error page that contains a link back to the July 20th show. If these shows were really going to be cancelled, why keep up the July 20th page and link the other shows back to it?



From a business standpoint, it's a terrible idea. "Cancelling" shows that some people have already purchased plane tickets for, requested off work, etc. is not good business. Plenty of fans are upset by this whole angle.

From a wrestling storyline standpoint, it's absolutely brilliant. I don't think CHIKARA has ever had so much buzz, it's actually got people questioning the "realness," and even people who aren't CHIKARA fans are interested to see what comes of it. All we can do is wait and see.

First of all, welcome to TSC breh. Second youre right this is a horrible business decision and a gamble of huge preportions. Outlandish is Chikara's niche though wether it be dancing egyptians, Norse cults or Every king of trios ever. So this being a work is likely. They might lose a ton of fans though so who knows if theyll wind up better though.

Oh and if they do a Saturnye/Quack pregnancy angle I AM fukkING DONE.

 

[desp]

For those who haven't seen BOSJ Day 5:

Spoiler

All videos from Senor LARIATO (SenorLARIATO) on Dailymotion

Lot of good matches up and down the card.

Sidenote: That Ricochet/Devitt match from the other day... Ricochet is so great.