Essential Japanese Wrestling Discussion/News

DocZulu

Pro
Joined
May 7, 2012
Messages
810
Reputation
210
Daps
1,280
Reppin
NULL
New Japan Pro Wrestling on AXS TV (Part 02): Shinsuke Nakamura vs. Hiroshi Tanahashi (IWGP Intercontinental Championship)

item_logo_njpw.gif


To Open

I've been waiting all week for this damn match. I was heartbroken last week give that AXS spoiled the damn thing...yet I still enjoyed the way they got to the ending.

What you read now are my first impressions as I watch the match unfold.

Anyway, on to the match. They treated this thing very seriously. Unlike the Neverweight title, each wrestler in the IC match received formal introductions.

This felt important and if you look at the wrestlers' faces you can tell that they take this bout very seriously. (They also gave the bulk of this week's broadcast to this match.)

Btw, I love how they open the match with standing armbars. Dude looked legitimately trapped.

Nothing about this match seemed stereotyped. I saw them wrestle last week yet this second match up still feels fresh.

Nakamura
%E4%B8%AD%E9%82%91%E7%9C%9F%E8%BC%943-225x3001-134x160.jpg


Early in the match, Nakamura kicks Tanahashi in the ass. No. Watch. It is hilarious, simple, and explains his character.

Dude is smart and mischievous.

Btw, when Nakamura cries in pain it sounds like someone is cuting off a limb. Check the Dragon Screw Leg Whip at the 37 minute mark. Damn!

And the Boombaya is such a simple move, but he makes it look nasty. There were 2 instances in this match where I marked out-loud.

Tanahashi
6005986.jpg


Nakamrua is my dude, but I have grown to appreciate Tanahashi. Grabbing hair? The audience and the ref were slightly taken aback because he grabbed Nakamura's hair.

I loved it!

That's how you keep your character fresh. It shows that this match is important and that the good guy can get ugly when it matters.

And the fans even booed him!

In fact, the longer this match ensues the more I think he's turning heel. He's brought a viciousness to his style that wasn't in any of his other matches.

Yeah, he's gone full heel. Only heels look to the crowd and mockingly applaud--and that looked like a full mock.

He's dominated most of the match, and it reminds me of the Flair/Anderson approach where you snipe a body part and then keep attacking it.


To Close
While last week's match proved to be a technical spectacle, today's match told a unique story. When two heroes go at it too often, one of them will break.

One of them will try to dominate at the cost of his reputation.

I love how New Japan Pro Wrestlers create variations of their finishers. The High Fly Flo to a leg,

However, I still say that they need more submissions. I have yet to see a submission that decides a fight. If they start doing that then these matches will become more dramatic.

In sum
: It was ugly in an old school way. It felt like my NWA came back to life. Loved the wrestling and I loved the story.
 

23Barrettcity

Superstar
Supporter
Joined
May 7, 2012
Messages
35,215
Reputation
1,417
Daps
52,111
Reppin
NULL
Shibata has the most generic attire and entrance but man is the guy good in the ring. I feel like if he changed his finisher and attire he could be a legit main event guy.
His match with Ishii at 2013 G1 climax was great and that WK 8
I hate how stiff he is . It just screams a short cut to me , learn how to do real wrestling moves or :camby:
 

Scottie Drippin

Should Never Mention Me
Joined
Apr 30, 2012
Messages
17,018
Reputation
5,176
Daps
61,717
Reppin
The Traps of Unified Korea
I love how New Japan Pro Wrestlers create variations of their finishers. The High Fly Flo to a leg,

However, I still say that they need more submissions. I have yet to see a submission that decides a fight. If they start doing that then these matches will become more dramatic.
I've seen you say this before and I had to say that it grates the hell out of me. This absolutely makes no sense. And it makes no sense because you're making it based on such an insanely limited sample source. The AXS show just picks and chooses the best matches from the last two years or so and puts them on. You're getting great shyt and I'm happy you're enjoying it, but it feels like you're basing entire opinions on a company and a style off of like fewer than ten matches.

"They need more submissions" is insanely off base. Nakamura for instance had a period of several, several years where he won almost all of his big matches with his armbar. In fact, until Tana took over as the ace, the early 00's was all about submissions with Tenzan's Anacaonda Vice, Nagata's various Nagata Lock's, Naka aforementioned armbar, and even Tana has used a Texas Cloverleaf for W's.

Just this year in the Dome there was a UWFI rules match which was shoot-style wrestling perfection and could only end in knockout or submission. And you've still got Tenzan, MiSu, AJ, Nagata, and even DH Smith who use subs as finishes.

You saying that subs would make the match more dramatic, there's a reason why when Naka does an armbar or Tana his cloverleaf the crowd reacts, because for over a decade they HAVE won matches with those. You're watching a very select sample on the AXS. Just keep in mind that it's not giving the whole picture.
 

23Barrettcity

Superstar
Supporter
Joined
May 7, 2012
Messages
35,215
Reputation
1,417
Daps
52,111
Reppin
NULL
:stopitslime::upsetfavre::scust::why::leostare::skip::beli::what::comeon::dwillhuh::snoop:

You might be watching the wrong stuff bruh. Maybe lucha is more your wave? Some World of Sport European Rounds maybe?
Shibata is excessive with his kicks to me man . I have no issue with the puro style but they can overdue it though . Shinsuke suzuki knows how to combine the aspects of mma with wrestling . I don't find him kicking someone super hard for real in a worked fight compelling or entertaining
 

Scottie Drippin

Should Never Mention Me
Joined
Apr 30, 2012
Messages
17,018
Reputation
5,176
Daps
61,717
Reppin
The Traps of Unified Korea
Shibata is excessive with his kicks to me man . I have no issue with the puro style but they can overdue it though . Shinsuke suzuki knows how to combine the aspects of mma with wrestling . I don't find him kicking someone super hard for real in a worked fight compelling or entertaining
I think you combined two people fam :russ:

Also, if you're talking about Nakamura....are you just casually glossing over the fact that he, ATLEAST once a match, just legit punches someone in the fukking face? :heh: Like, not a worked punch, because this is Puro and stiffness is tradition, he just shoot punches them in the fukking face and that's a part of his normal act. Or how about at WK when he stuffed his boot in Kota's mouth so he could kick his teeth? Or that he's broken Tanahashi's orbital eye bone with the Boma Ye? That's much more than Shibata who doesn't even kick people in the head like so, so many others do. Aside from his dropkick in the corner which is really safe anyway Shibata kicks the chest almost exclusively. Even his Go To Sleep is to the chest.
 

23Barrettcity

Superstar
Supporter
Joined
May 7, 2012
Messages
35,215
Reputation
1,417
Daps
52,111
Reppin
NULL
I think you combined two people fam :russ:

Also, if you're talking about Nakamura....are you just casually glossing over the fact that he, ATLEAST once a match, just legit punches someone in the fukking face? :heh: Like, not a worked punch, because this is Puro and stiffness is tradition, he just shoot punches them in the fukking face and that's a part of his normal act. Or how about at WK when he stuffed his boot in Kota's mouth so he could kick his teeth? Or that he's broken Tanahashi's orbital eye bone with the Boma Ye? That's much more than Shibata who doesn't even kick people in the head like so, so many others do. Aside from his dropkick in the corner which is really safe anyway Shibata kicks the chest almost exclusively. Even his Go To Sleep is to the chest.
I meant to put a , as those are two guys who are legit shoot fighters . Youe defense of shibata falls on deaf ears man . The way minoru or shinsuke do it is fine because they add other elements . They can story tell in the match like how naka did vs ibushi which I haven't seen from shibata . I find nothing exciting or appealing about him and all he does that's noteworthy to ne is kick hard . Kenta kicked hard and could still do other things
 

Scottie Drippin

Should Never Mention Me
Joined
Apr 30, 2012
Messages
17,018
Reputation
5,176
Daps
61,717
Reppin
The Traps of Unified Korea
:damn: @Don Rhymus on fire right now.
I understand a lot of brehs are woke to this shyt now, but I think to approach watching it as you approach watching any other wrestling is just wrong :manny: And I don't just feel that way about NJPW, I feel that way about every company. You have to try to see it through their specific scope in order to REALLY understand why things are happening, appreciating them when they do, and getting a feel for how it goes down. I get that as an acclimating device making associations helps but I feel like dudes will really rob themselves of the experience if everything is "This guy reminds me of this guy" and so on and so forth. These different styles of wrestling share some core principles and intersect in ways that you wouldn't even expect from the onset but they're so inherently based in their own cultures you really have to try to see it that way. Y'know, developing the palette and shyt.

When I first started watching puro I didn't care for heavyweight stuff at all. KENTA/Maru v Juvi/Marvin was the first thing I ever saw, and as a life long fan of cruisers/light-heavyweights that's all I was into. All the heavyweight stuff that got so much praise bored the shyt out of me. I felt it lacked drama, excitement, MOVES~! and was whatever (I was also like 14 so dat attention span). But the more I got into it, the more I learned where the shyt came from, the thinking behind matches, behind characters, the history associated with the various archetypes, the more I appreciated everything.

Specifically, in the case of Shibata, it's like he's the walking embodiment of everything strong style and I love the dude for it. :wow:
No he's not . I've been saying I hate shibata for probably over a year . He does nothing interesting to me and has no character
I'll just quote this here so you see it as it applies to you.

His matches absolutely have story-telling. If you don't see the story in his matches with Goto or his matches with Tana, it's entirely as, as I was talking about above, you just don't have the perspective.

And he absolutely has character. In the western world he'd be generic, but puro isn't like the US industry which mostly flourished as an almost carnival like attraction based in showmanship. Rikidozan, Baba, Inoki, Jumbo, these are the premier icons of pre-1990s, and it's their ultra legit persona and aura that Shibata embodies and his entire gimmick is based on. Since his return he's been known as simply "The Wrestler", which again in the US would bring about all sorts of generic connotations, but in NJPW it's more like, he's the last of a breed that's already passed.
 
Last edited:

DocZulu

Pro
Joined
May 7, 2012
Messages
810
Reputation
210
Daps
1,280
Reppin
NULL
I'm new to Japanese wrestling and I don't know anything about NOAH, nor have I ever heard of UWFI.

I have acknowledged, in other words, that I don't have a reference point.

In fact, New Japan Pro Wrestling, through the AXS network, is choosing to expose their American audience to a particular perspective on their brand.

AXS TV is the way in which they want me to get acclimated to their top stars. By doing so they are also acclimating me to their style of matches.

They haven't shown submissions.


I've seen you say this before and I had to say that it grates the hell out of me. This absolutely makes no sense. And it makes no sense because you're making it based on such an insanely limited sample source. The AXS show just picks and chooses the best matches from the last two years or so and puts them on. You're getting great shyt and I'm happy you're enjoying it, but it feels like you're basing entire opinions on a company and a style off of like fewer than ten matches.

"They need more submissions" is insanely off base. Nakamura for instance had a period of several, several years where he won almost all of his big matches with his armbar. In fact, until Tana took over as the ace, the early 00's was all about submissions with Tenzan's Anacaonda Vice, Nagata's various Nagata Lock's, Naka aforementioned armbar, and even Tana has used a Texas Cloverleaf for W's.

Just this year in the Dome there was a UWFI rules match which was shoot-style wrestling perfection and could only end in knockout or submission. And you've still got Tenzan, MiSu, AJ, Nagata, and even DH Smith who use subs as finishes.

You saying that subs would make the match more dramatic, there's a reason why when Naka does an armbar or Tana his cloverleaf the crowd reacts, because for over a decade they HAVE won matches with those. You're watching a very select sample on the AXS. Just keep in mind that it's not giving the whole picture.
 

The Rainmaker

Mr. Money in the Bank
Joined
Jun 12, 2012
Messages
31,703
Reputation
5,361
Daps
133,626
I FIGHT BECAUSE IT'S MY MISSION.

:wow: That's still resounding in my head. Fujinami da gawd.
 

Scottie Drippin

Should Never Mention Me
Joined
Apr 30, 2012
Messages
17,018
Reputation
5,176
Daps
61,717
Reppin
The Traps of Unified Korea
I'm new to Japanese wrestling and I don't know anything about NOAH, nor have I ever heard of UWFI.

I have acknowledged, in other words, that I don't have a reference point.

In fact, New Japan Pro Wrestling, through the AXS network, is choosing to expose their American audience to a particular perspective on their brand.

AXS TV is the way in which they want me to get acclimated to their top stars. By doing so they are also acclimating me to their style of matches.

They haven't shown submissions.
But you realize that's like if they had a Best of WWE show where they just showed some shyt from a very small window of time, and they just happened to show be a bunch of Dbry matches that end with the YES Lock and the big matches Cena won with the STF and Del Rio matches and saying they really need to mix in more pinfall finishes to increase the drama?

The only reason I even comment on this is because It just struck me as incredibly weird that you mentioned this a few times.
 
Top