I've changed my mind on universal healthcare in the US. I'm against it.

[Dr. Acula]

Not because I don't believe in the concept. But because our current government is way too dysfunctional that you can't trust them to give you something good and effective. No matter what party we have in there because it's too corrupt. With ACA even though it wasn't all bad, it ended up being a husk of its initial dream after our politicians defiled it like some chick in an alley before letting her get away. Sorry for the graphic analogy but I feel it's apt to describe what our politicians do due to either being money hungry, bribed, and/or just having crazy views (especially on the right).

Even when democrats hold all the power there are still corrupted individuals in the party itself who will make sure it's absolute shyt once they are done with it. Lieberman was the person back then and Sinema and Manchin are that person now.

So, until our political system is massively reworked to be less corrupt and less dysfunctional I have no hope we will get anything close to European or Canadian Healthcare. People might bring up other social selafety nets like Medicare/medicaid and social security but these aren't recent inventions and our current politicians are working hard at making those dysfunctional/ruining them too..

Why give up more of your money to these people who will just piss it away and don't give you anything close to what you want.

You can't even get the house leader in the democratic party to agree that maybe allowing them to essentially do insider trading may be bad and need some checks. Why trust them to know how to handle a government Healthcare system?

 

[dora_da_destroyer]

I too don’t trust the government to provide a quality plan, especially when it comes to women’s reproductive health - I shudder to think about the lack of coverage and support a plan would have for women in the hands of republicans. That said, that’s why I am for a public option, being covered shouldn’t be tied to your employment status, but I don’t want to wholly get rid of private insurance plans for universal care only.

 

[Formerly Black Trash]

Not because I don't believe in the concept. But because our current government is way too dysfunctional that you can't trust them to give you something good and effective. No matter what party we have in there because it's too corrupt. With ACA even though it wasn't all bad, it ended up being a husk of its initial dream after our politicians defiled it like some chick in an alley before letting her get away. Sorry for the graphic analogy but I feel it's apt to describe what our politicians do due to either being money hungry, bribed, and/or just having crazy views (especially on the right).

Even when democrats hold all the power there are still corrupted individuals in the party itself who will make sure it's absolute shyt once they are done with it. Lieberman was the person back then and Sinema and Manchin are that person now.

So, until our political system is massively reworked to be less corrupt and less dysfunctional I have no hope we will get anything close to European or Canadian Healthcare. People might bring up other social selafety nets like Medicare/medicaid and social security but these aren't recent inventions and our current politicians are working hard at making those dysfunctional/ruining them too..

Why give up more of your money to these people who will just piss it away and don't give you anything close to what you want.

You can't even get the house leader in the democratic party to agree that maybe allowing them to essentially do insider trading may be bad and need some checks. Why trust them to know how to handle a government Healthcare system?

You may as well be Libertarian with this reasoning

Don't try new things that can possibly help ppl because our government steals

 

[Dr. Acula]

You may as well be Libertarian with this reasoning

Don't try new things gs that can possibly help ppl because our government steals

But am I wrong? Is our government not dysfunctional? Can you tell me it isn't? Forget labels and political parties. Let's talk about the facts on the ground as they really are, right now.

I'm slowly coming to the conclusion we are on the dying side of the American empire and the Jan 6th incident showed this more than anything in recent memory. If this was before the 90s I would have more faith but can you sit here and sincerely say our government is not fukked up, possibly beyond repair at this point? I would be more worried about a fascist take over or descent into anarchy in the future. Those seem like much more pressing issues in the near future and a government on this sort of decline, as time goes on, will only do a worse and worse job in implementing a complicated and intricate Healthcare system.

Again, tell me, as far as my analysis of our government, that I'm wrong. Can you sincerely do that and not feel dishonest? I wish we could have a system like Canada or many European countries. But I'm not saying those countries are perfect but they have less corruptible governments and governments that care about the common good than ours.

 

[DEAD7]

Canadian style healthcare is the way to go.
Per capita black grants to each state.

…republicans had a bill like this a few years back but it didn’t get enough traction. They should revisit it.

 

[Godless Socialist CEO]

Just libertarian things

 

[No1]

I too don’t trust the government to provide a quality plan, especially when it comes to women’s reproductive health - I shudder to think about the lack of coverage and support a plan would have for women in the hands of republicans. That said, that’s why I am for a public option, being covered shouldn’t be tied to your employment status, but I don’t want to wholly get rid of private insurance plans for universal care only.

The government plan that someone like Sanders was pushing is more comprehensive than any private insurance plan. That said, people can still buy private insurance if they want most countries. It’s not some either or.

 

[Rice N Beans]

I've been happy with the ACA expansions in Illinois (I was on a trial for one). If anything, the private spots and private-ran plans are more annoying to deal with.

 

[dora_da_destroyer]

The government plan that someone like Sanders was pushing is more comprehensive than any private insurance plan. That said, people can still buy private insurance if they want most countries. It’s not some either or.

i've heard plenty of advocates of universal insurance be in favor of fully abolishing private insurance, so yes, for some proponents, it has been presented as either or...

and again, a sanders plan doesn't hold up in a republican government, look at the way administrations jerk taxes around, that's absolutely unacceptable to me re: healthcare/coverage. i think the core of our government (how congress is set up to being a two party system) is so out of wack with where our country is presently that i'm like OP, i don't trust them to be in charge of setting up a fair, comprehensive system. the 70's was our last shot at getting universal health care implemented IMO

 

[No1]

i've heard plenty of advocates of universal insurance be in favor of fully abolishing private insurance, so yes, for some proponents, it has been presented as either or...

and again, a sanders plan doesn't hold up in a republican government, look at the way administrations jerk taxes around, that's absolutely unacceptable to me re: healthcare/coverage. i think the core of our government (how congress is set up to being a two party system) is so out of wack with where our country is presently that i'm like OP, i don't trust them to be in charge of setting up a fair, comprehensive system. the 70's was our last shot at getting universal health care implemented IMO

They’re for abolishing the current system - of course - the coverage provided in other countries is akin to supplemental coverage. And I find it highly unlikely that our healthcare system would be taken apart once it is in place. That’s the entire reason people fight against large scale programs, it’s much harder to take something away. Look at Medicare and Medicaid and social security. Republicans been wanting to get at them for decades but are too shook to push the button.

 

[Broke Wave]

Canadian style healthcare is the way to go.
Per capita black grants to each state.

…republicans had a bill like this a few years back but it didn’t get enough traction. They should revisit it.

… single payer healthcare is the way to go for you?

 

[acri1]

In the long run I still think single payer would be for the best, but for now I'd be pretty pleased if we just got a public option.

 

[dora_da_destroyer]

They’re for abolishing the current system - of course - the coverage provided in other countries is akin to supplemental coverage. And I find it highly unlikely that our healthcare system would be taken apart once it is in place. That’s the entire reason people fight against large scale programs, it’s much harder to take something away. Look at Medicare and Medicaid and social security. Republicans been wanting to get at them for decades but are too shook to push the button.

no, i know what i've read, there are people who do not want private health care to exist - public only.

huh? that's not what i'm arguing at all - one, we don't have a functioning, compromising government to put one in place in the first place. this is a congress that has no qualms about frolicking off to recess with not a fukk given about the impact of leaving agencies unfunded, leading to multiple unnecessary shutdowns over the past 8 years, good luck getting them to. and no, while a republican government couldn't fully repeal a universal healthcare plan once in place, they absolutely could strip it down and remove coverage for various things. i wholeheartedly believe women's reproductive health coverage would be in peril in a republican led government, there's nothing you can say to convince me otherwise, i can look to legislation and medicare plans in states across the south for proof of that.

i truly have no faith in our government to do right by americans at this point in time but i do hope a public option becomes available

 

[Serious]

I don’t see it happening for a variety of reasons mainly because big pharma and insurance companies wouldnt benefit from a single payer system

 

[No1]

no, i know what i've read, there are people who do not want private health care to exist - public only.

huh? that's not what i'm arguing at all - one, we don't have a functioning, compromising government to put one in place in the first place. this is a congress that has no qualms about frolicking off to recess with not a fukk given about the impact of leaving agencies unfunded, leading to multiple unnecessary shutdowns over the past 8 years, good luck getting them to. and no, while a republican government couldn't fully repeal a universal healthcare plan once in place, they absolutely could strip it down and remove coverage for various things. i wholeheartedly believe women's reproductive health coverage would be in peril in a republican led government, there's nothing you can say to convince me otherwise, i can look to legislation and medicare plans in states across the south for proof of that.

i truly have no faith in our government to do right by americans at this point in time but i do hope a public option becomes available

You were arguing what I said. This entire post is literally that. You said a Sanders plan wouldn’t hold up because of a Republican government and I responded to that. And whether or not some people want to abolish it entirely is irrelevant. There is not currently a proposal out there with any traction that has advocated that so it’s a red herring. Women’s reproductive health is in peril right now - that point doesn’t make much sense. The passage of anything, even a public option would face the same dangers.