It's about to be 2021, can we all agree Jay is the greatest?

[ISO]

It was the worst album of his career up to that point and had his worst rapping up to that point.
He was chasing the popular sound of the time (Tim and Swizz).

Sounds like you didn’t like it

What that got to do with the objective facts provided above?

What does that have to do with the album being a classic?

 

[mobbinfms]

Sounds like you didn’t like it

What that got to do with the objective facts provided above?

What does that have to do with the album being a classic?

Because the consensus on album quality has to be one of the most important factors right?
Also, there isn’t enough of a consensus that the album is a classic.

 

[ISO]

Because the consensus on album quality has to be one of the most important factors right?
Also, there isn’t enough of a consensus that the album is a classic.

U won't find a consensus. There's the you type of people that don't like it specifically because it's a departure from the boom bap era while to others it's their favorite Jay album. Since you use The Source mic system earlier that publication gave it 4.5 Mics.

The quality of the album is a subjective opinion. The impact of the album is not arguable.

808's album by Kanye I hated when it dropped only like some songs like Amazing. I went back and listened to it with a clear mind and found more songs I liked and while it's still not my listening preference, it was a game changing album. I now see it as a classic.

That's how classics should be judged on their impact and influence not on subjective biased musical opinions.

The Black Album, Watch the Throne, and Vol. 2 can absolutely be seen as classic albums to a lot of people their classics and it's not just Jay's super stans.

 

[Awesome Wells]

It was the worst album of his career up to that point and had his worst rapping up to that point.
He was chasing the popular sound of the time (Tim and Swizz).

This is actually true.

It was just his third album though, so it's not exactly hard to be the worst album of his career up to that point, lol. But Swizz was far from popular when Jay had him on Vol. 2. Swizz only had two beats out by the time the album dropped, and none were even close to being hits that would change dude's career. This album and DMX's second album are what blew Swizz up. That's when he started getting mad work. He was definitely unknown before that.

Jay's lyrics on this album nosedived from Vol. 1, but when this dropped, I played the shyt out of it. Definitely more than I did Vol. 3. This is still his best-selling album, at like 5 million plus. Dude sparked a whole tour off of this album and its hits. So I can definitely see why it would be seen as a classic. It boosted his career and the careers of mad other artists, especially on Def Jam.

 

[mobbinfms]

But Swizz was far from popular when Jay had him on Vol. 2. Swizz only had two beats out by the time the album dropped, and none were even close to being hits that would change dude's career.

If I’m not mistaken, Ruff Ryder’s Anthem, All For The Love and Banned From TV were all out earlier in 98 and making varying degrees of noise (Ruff Ryder’s Anthem was a monster and absolutely changed Swizz’ career). Swizz was definitely known in the industry at that point, and even known by people who were paying attention. I know you knew who he was way before Vol 2.

 

[mobbinfms]

U won't find a consensus.

But there has to be a consensus if you want to call something classic.
My definition has always been, at ten years out, do at least 80% of knowledgeable fans still view the album as something special. Doesn’t have to be perfect, but something more than a dope album.

Vol 2 is too divisive.

 

[JustCKing]

But there has to be a consensus if you want to call something classic.
My definition has always been, at ten years out, do at least 80% of knowledgeable fans still view the album as something special. Doesn’t have to be perfect, but something more than a dope album.

Vol 2 is too divisive.

What is 80% of knowledgeable fans? Who determines whether they are knowledgeable? "Classic" albums were never determined by any of those factors. And again, in real time, few people ran around calling an album a classic. A classic was nothing more than a must have, essential albums. A lot of those albums moved the culture in way or another, and some of them were divisive.

 

[Awesome Wells]

If I’m not mistaken, Ruff Ryder’s Anthem, All For The Love and Banned From TV were all out earlier in 98 and making varying degrees of noise (Ruff Ryder’s Anthem was a monster and absolutely changed Swizz’ career). Swizz was definitely known in the industry at that point, and even known by people who were paying attention. I know you knew who he was way before Vol 2.

Those were the couple tracks that I was mentioning.

Jay's album was recorded at the same time as X's and Nore's. Ruff Ryder's Anthem was the last song they did for X's album. Swizz still wasn't a household name yet. He's said so a million times. Dude only had one beat on X's whole first album, lol. After X's second album and Vol. 2, he was everywhere. His first placement was on the LOX's first album. And if you watched him talk about that track or saw Kiss talk about it, they all said that nobody even knew that Swizz did that joint. A year later, he was doing whole projects, LOX, Eve, DMX, joints for Busta, Ruff Ryders Vol. 1, Mya, etc. When he started making joints for mad people and doing whole projects, that's when he was hot. Jay said himself, when he asked Swizz for beats, no one knew who he was. He was talking about how he always goes to people before they become hot. So he was speaking about Kanye, Just Blaze, Swizz, etc. But he's right though. He was using dudes before they became popular. Rappers weren't using Timbo either. A lot of dudes kinda got their names up with Jay.

 

[ISO]

What is 80% of knowledgeable fans? Who determines whether they are knowledgeable? "Classic" albums were never determined by any of those factors. And again, in real time, few people ran around calling an album a classic. A classic was nothing more than a must have, essential albums. A lot of those albums moved the culture in way or another, and some of them were divisive.

Yeah that’s because the literal meaning of the word classic means a work has to be dated time has to pass.

Which is what I’ve been trying to tell mfs in here.

 

[JustCKing]

Yeah that’s because the literal meaning of the word classic means a work has to be dated time has to pass.

Which is what I’ve been trying to tell mfs in here.

Not necessarily. Again, Doggystyle is an example of an album that people viewed as important when it dropped. The impact was felt upon release. Months after the album dropped, there were copycats. Same goes for Chronic and All Eyez On Me.

 

[JustCKing]

Those were the couple tracks that I was mentioning.

Jay's album was recorded at the same time at X's and Nore's. Ruff Ryder's Anthem was the last song they did for X's album. Swizz still wasn't a household name yet. He's said so a million times. Dude only had one beat on X's whole first album, lol. After X's second album and Vol. 2, he was everywhere. His first placement was on the LOX's first album. And if you watched him talk about that track or saw Kiss talk about it, they all said that nobody even knew that Swizz did that joint. A year later, he was doing whole projects, LOX, Eve, DMX, joints for Busta, Ruff Ryders Vol. 1, Mya, etc. When he started making joints for mad people and doing whole projects, that's when he was hot. Jay said himself, when he asked Swizz for beats, no one knew who he was. He was talking about how he always goes to people before they become hot. So he was speaking about Kanye, Just Blaze, Swizz, etc. But he's right though. He was using dudes before they became popular. Rappers weren't using Timbo either. A lot of dudes kinda got their names up with Jay.

Timbaland had rap placements before Jay though. Even still, he had hit rap records on his resume before Vol. 2.

 

[ISO]

Not necessarily. Again, Doggystyle is an example of an album that people viewed as important when it dropped. The impact was felt upon release. Months after the album dropped, there were copycats. Same goes for Chronic and All Eyez On Me.

There’s instant classics that just happen to be one of them albums so big you know they’re going to be influential.

 

[Awesome Wells]

Timbaland had rap placements before Jay though. Even still, he had hit rap records on his resume before Vol. 2.

I'm talking about hit records. He wasn't on any albums that pushed 5 million plus before Vol. 2. That's why he said that the "N*gga What, N*gga Who" check was the one that "changed his life and career". That album and its success helped a lot of people take their careers even further. Whether by just being on the album itself, or being on the tour that Def Jam initiated because of it.

 

[JustCKing]

I'm talking about hit records. He wasn't on any albums that pushed 5 million plus before Vol. 2. That's why he said that the "N*gga What, N*gga Who" check was the one that "changed his life and career". That album and its success helped a lot of people take their careers even further. Whether by just being on the album itself, or being on the tour that Def Jam initiated because of it.

Outside of The Hitmen, none of those producers had been on an album that huge before. This album definitely didn't make Premo nor did it make a household name out of Timbaland, who was already established BEFORE Vol. 2. Same goes for Eric Sermon.

I am not sure Tim charged Jay Z for "nikka What nikka Who". According to Tim, he came up with the beat in like 15 minutes which was about the time it took Jay to complete his verses.

 

[Ukbrotha]

Nas is my favourite MC all time.

But i don't think its possible to attain the heights and impact of Jay's rap career.