Is Steph winning his fourth Finals putting Lebron Era to the back burner for the 00s

[Ozymandeas]

Steph has only been the undisputed driving force for one championship. So by winning another championship he cements himself as a top 15 player.
Steph needs to go back to back to become top 10.

That’s blatantly false. Otherwise Kareem wouldn’t be considered top 3 with 6 rings and 2 FMVPs. The Finals MVP argument started with Kobe in the 2000s as a way to demean him. Also, there was no internet back in the 80s and most of the 90s, so where were people having these stan war arguments at? This is why players like Kareem didn’t get demeaned as much because the infrastructure wasn’t there for haters to have a worldwide platform.

Another good example is Dr J. Fans recognize his name more and players like Jordan and other players showed him respect as a basketball forefather. Nobody even acknowledges that Moses Malone won MVP over him. So yes, the FMVP argument wasn’t weaponized like it is now.

 

[Th3Birdman]

And that McDonald's analogy is poor. Lebron getting another superstar is the point.

Lol. This is the internet-- analogies are always "poor" when you don't like what is being said. My analogy was perfect: you ordered something but weren't satisfied with what you ordered.

By the way, Westbrook ain't been a "superstar" since his OKC days, sorry to tell you. We don't give out lifetime awards 'round here, cuh. Y'all gotta stop with this calling players superstars bulljive. Nikka, you have to actually play well to be called a superstar. Brook wasn't a superstar in DC, he wasn't one in Houston.

What you mean to say is Brook is a "big name".

And you ignored everything else I said.

Full disclosure? Usually when I don't reply to something someone I'm arguing with said, I typically agree with what they said, so I have no reason to respond to it.

However, your post misunderstood what I was saying, so you have to start there first. If I replied to the rest of your point, that would be me acknowledging your strawman as a valid argument.

I don't do that.

I already stated Curry has faced adversity. Your examples of him facing adversity is in agreement with my original premise. Why do you expect a response?

 

[Ozymandeas]

I have to respectfully agree to disagree.

I can certainly see where you are coming from-- LeBron is in many ways a superior basketball player to Michael; LeBron shoots a higher percentage from three, he's a significantly better playmaker and rebounder, he's taller, stronger, faster in a game that rewards the taller, stronger and faster players. LeBron is my favorite athlete ever, and actually, I don't like Michael that much as a person. I think he's an overly sensitive a$$hole, that we romanticize due to nostalgia.

That being said, there is something to be said for winning. Earlier, I made the case that LeBron's finals losses have context that is being ignored by the public at large. You and I both understand this. But Jordan has 6 Finals with all six of those having him as the driving force behind those titles (FMVPs).

Me? Once LeBron wins six titles with six FMVPs, Jordan has nothing over him anymore. As I said earlier, losses do not count, only victories do-- this argument also works against Jordan's favor because he played in the NBA for 15 years, but only won 6 times. That means his 6-0 record is really 6-9, because he didn't win every year. It's silly when we put it like that, but that's what haters want to do: count losses. It is disingenuous to ONLY count Finals because it ignores every other time Michael failed at his goal. These nikkas want to act like 1985-1990 never happened.

LeBron has him in basically every other record-- points, assists, rebounds, you name it, LeBron has it. Stupid ass metrics like slam dunk champion and the like are irrelevant to who was the better basketball player. Mike has DPoY, LeBron has him beat in other areas like all-time assists, longevity and points. People like to ignore what makes LeBron great, and only focus on what he doesn't have with respect to Jordan.

I said all that to say this: Finals MVPs are quite literally the most valuable pieces of jewelry an NBA player can have. It says that you were the most valuable piece and the driving force en route to the most important goal of the season: winning that title. There are outliers like Kawhi and Iguodala winning FMVP, simply because they were guarding LeBron (which is literally another positive case in Bron's favor; you literally won FMVP because you were guarding LeBron. That speaks to LeBron's greatness). But generally speaking, the best player on the winning team wins FMVP, so the metric is solid.

I can't give the ranking to LeBron yet, because although I understand the context behind his Ls, I need him to have the hardware so that I can in good conscience argue that LeBron did at least everything Jordan did. If Jordan is the measuring stick, LeBron still has a little work left to do, in my opinion. Get these last two chips, and it's on and cracking

If you look at it that way, LeBron is 4 out of 20 breh

 

[Leasy]

If you look at it that way, LeBron is 4 out of 20 breh

These Lebron stans are unbelievable bro.

 

[Th3Birdman]

If you look at it that way, LeBron is 4 out of 20 breh

Which is fine by me-- I am the one that said losses do not count. It is only you haters that look at basketball this way. The NBA does not count losses-- they list LeBron as a 4x NBA champion, something you nikkas said would never happen back in 2010. I remember, because I was there.


And by the way, it's 4-15, not 4 out of 20. The metric I used for Jordan was 6-9, meaning 6 wins, 9 losses. If I was doing what you just did, Jordan would be 6 out of 15

 

[Ozymandeas]

Geez, I'm not misunderstanding anything.

The reason why I'm saying you're ignoring Curry's teammates flaws is that you're saying that Stephen hasn't faced adversity and LeBron has....

And that's misleading because to say that would mean you are willfully ignoring things.

Curry's adversity - 2019, KD is hurt, his depth is weak. Beats Houston in game 6 dropping 33 in the second half, SWEEPS Portland who a lotta people thought would be a challenge by averaging a record 36ppg, and then lost to Toronto in 6 after KD and Klay went down, averaging 30ppg being boxed and one.

And guess what? I still wasn't impressed with Curry in that Toronto series, but guess what? How's that any worse than LeBron losing in 6 in 2015, or losing in 5 to the Spurs when Wade and Bosh got hurt?

Again, Curry playing with 6'9 forward who barely shoots and needs his shooters to constantly cut, is difficult. Draymond's offense is a product of Steph. Steph having to carry Dray's offense is adversity.

You're gonna bring up unselfish teammates who run screens? When Curry runs around like hell, and is the consummate professional unself leader?

That's not getting into the fact that the Warriors were terrible when he got there - 1 playoff appearance in the previous 15 years - and his ankle injuries too.

Anyway, I'm not saying that Curry is better than LeBron. Even if Curry ties him in rings, he isn't better. But I don't think it'll be stupid to argue Steph, even if I still think Bron will be better.

And again, for the record, I understand that Celeveland didn't build well around LeBron early on. But from 2010 onwards? You have to put some of this on LeBron and his playstyle.

If the Lakers had kept KCP, Caruso, etc. And signed regular role players like Otto Porter-esque players, they literally could have been like this iteration of the Warriors.

But at the end of the day, LeBron has been opting to blow teams up and get borderline superstars - and there's a reason he's doing that. And it's because his playstyle - despite how excellent of a floor raiser it is, despite how consistently great it is, at the end of the day, will still need another couple superstars to bring home a chip with.

You're gonna really bring up Westbrook as adversity, when LeBron is the one who wanted him on board because he didn't want to play with a regular organic team.

Look at Luka. Luka wouldn't win with this Golden State group. Is he gonna make Draymond and Looney stand on the corner to shoot 3s

It's easy for Curry to have good depth that plays well (which you are still overrating) because Curry's style of play objectively makes it easy for others to get into a rhythm and excel. It makes it easy to build around.

Look at GP2 and Draymond. They are not good scorers. But it's okay, because Curry makes up for that. Golden state has great roster flexibility because they can get 1-way defensive players, since those players scoring can be masked by Curry. @murksiderock

You see what I'm getting at? It's not as simple to say "Curry has a lot of help, he's lucky to have so much help and face little adversity!", but you're ignoring how Curry plays into that.

Again, I'll still have LeBron ahead if Curry wins, but at a certain point I don't think the gap between Curry and LeBron will be as large as yall think.

We know Curry had help, and got Durant. We also know LeBron got Wade and Bosh and Love and Kyrie and Anthony Davis. That's what we'll remember.

LeBron blows to the basket on 90% of his plays, mostly always has the ball in his hands and if he’s too well covered, he kicks out to guys on the wing for open shots. He plays in real life like it’s NBA 2K.

Steph on the other hand plays off ball, uses screens to get open and is a deadly deep range shooter. The fact he can hit from 40 feet away is why defenses try to double him, smother him, etc…..and that gets the other guys open and unclogs the lanes going to the basket. That’s why guys who would be average anywhere else look good in Golden State’s system. Because Steph plays off ball and can cause doubles or the defense shifting with just him running around the court, those other guys on GS can get their touches with the ball and take advantage of those open lanes instead of waiting on the perimeter for a kickback three like with Bron.

 

[Leasy]

LeBron blows to the basket on 90% of his plays, mostly always has the ball in his hands and if he’s too well covered, he kicks out to guys on the wing for open shots. He plays in real life like it’s NBA 2K.

Steph on the other hand plays off ball, uses screens to get open and is a deadly deep range shooter. The fact he can hit from 40 feet away is why defenses try to double him, smother him, etc…..and that gets the other guys open and unclogs the lanes going to the basket. That’s why guys who would be average anywhere else look good in Golden State’s system. Because Steph plays off ball and can cause doubles or the defense shifting with just him running around the court, those other guys on GS can get their touches with the ball and take advantage of those open lanes instead of waiting on the perimeter for a kickback three like with Bron.

Lebron knows this and this is why he said this

LeBron James lists Warriors' Steph Curry as a player he wants to play with

LeBron James lists Steph Curry as a player he would like to play with in today’s game.

warriorswire.usatoday.com

In today’s game — Steph Curry. Steph Curry is the one I want to play with for sure in today’s game…

I love everything about that guy. Lethal. When Steph gets out of his car, you better guard him from the moment he pulls up to the arena. As soon as he gets out of his car, you better guard him. You might want to guard him when he gets out of bed. Swear to god.

 

[Ozymandeas]

Which is fine by me-- I am the one that said losses do not count. It is only you haters that look at basketball this way. The NBA does not count losses-- they list LeBron as a 4x NBA champion, something you nikkas said would never happen back in 2010. I remember, because I was there.


And by the way, it's 4-15, not 4 out of 20. The metric I used for Jordan was 6-9, meaning 6 wins, 9 losses. If I was doing what you just did, Jordan would be 6 out of 15

My bad.

6-9 v.s. 4-15.

I failed Calculus my first time around but that looks worse to me

 

[Ozymandeas]

Lebron knows this and this is why he said this

LeBron James lists Warriors' Steph Curry as a player he wants to play with

LeBron James lists Steph Curry as a player he would like to play with in today’s game.

warriorswire.usatoday.com

 

[Th3Birdman]

My bad.

6-9 v.s. 4-15.

I failed Calculus my first time around but that looks worse to me

4-15 looks worse than 4 out of 20?

I have no doubt you failed calculus


And yes, we all know LeBron has not lived up to Jordan's championship standard in as many years. What, nikka, you think you kickin street knowledge like NWA? The fukk is your point?

If Bron ends his career with 6/7 titles and FMVPs, y'all still gonna harp on his loss record. You people are weird-- in your real life you don't count your real-life Ls, only your Ws.

How many of you nikkas post your first whip?

Now how many of y'all posting your current whip?

 

[Ozymandeas]

4-15 looks worse than 4 out of 20?

I have no doubt you failed calculus


And yes, we all know LeBron has not lived up to Jordan's championship standard in as many years. What, nikka, you think you kickin street knowledge like NWA? The fukk is your point?

If Bron ends his career with 6/7 titles and FMVPs, y'all still gonna harp on his loss record. You people are weird-- in your real life you don't count your real-life Ls, only your Ws.

How many of you nikkas post your first whip?

Now how many of y'all posting your current whip?

4-15 looks worse than 6-9 genius

Why you think I added a v.s.?

We know you failed English since your comprehension skills are lacking.

 

[Bittersteel]

That’s blatantly false. Otherwise Kareem wouldn’t be considered top 3 with 6 rings and 2 FMVPs. The Finals MVP argument started with Kobe in the 2000s as a way to demean him. Also, there was no internet back in the 80s and most of the 90s, so where were people having these stan war arguments at? This is why players like Kareem didn’t get demeaned as much because the infrastructure wasn’t there for haters to have a worldwide platform.

Another good example is Dr J. Fans recognize his name more and players like Jordan and other players showed him respect as a basketball forefather. Nobody even acknowledges that Moses Malone won MVP over him. So yes, the FMVP argument wasn’t weaponized like it is now.

Of Kareem 6 titles he was the undisputed best player in 3 of them.
The only players who have more are Jordan and Russell both players I place above Kareem.
I have Kareem 4th after Jordan, Russell and Magic.

 

[Sccit]

4-15 looks worse than 6-9 genius

Why you think I added a v.s.?

We know you failed English since your comprehension skills are lacking.

BRUH IS LIKE A POOR MANS @Rhakim

 

[Th3Birdman]

4-15 looks worse than 6-9 genius

Why you think I added a v.s.?

We know you failed English since your comprehension skills are lacking.

Oh, I understood what YOU were trying to do.

The problem is that we were talking about what I said.

It's sad I have to break this down for you, but here goes:

I said Jordan is 6W-9L. Your simple ass said "then that makes LeBron 4 out of 20". Those two were not equivalent because they were talking about two different things. One is a win/loss measurement, the other is a fraction.

I then showed you the correct fraction for LeBron, and you proceed to use the win/loss measure against the fraction, yet again, stating 4-15 vs 6-9 "looks worse".

When you say it "looks worse", you are saying 4-15 vs 6-9 looks worse than 4 out of 20 vs 6-9, genius.

Hence, what I said. See? I told you I got no problem holding y'all's hands.

BRUH IS LIKE A POOR MANS @Rhakim

So, I'm a poor man's version of a Poster of the Year, a nikka who is well respected on this site, despite it being known for haters, and nikkas that can't read?

You're complementing me and you don't even realize it.

We both from Inglewood, so shout out to @Rhakim

 

[Sccit]

Oh, I understood what YOU were trying to do.

The problem is that we were talking about what I said.

It's sad I have to break this down for you, but here goes:

I said Jordan is 6W-9L. Your simple ass said "then that makes LeBron 4 out of 20". Those two were not equivalent because they were talking about two different things. One is a win/loss measurement, the other is a fraction.

I then showed you the correct fraction for LeBron, and you proceed to use the win/loss measure against the fraction, yet again, stating 4-15 vs 6-9 "looks worse".

When you say it "looks worse", you are saying 4-15 vs 6-9 looks worse than 4 out of 20 vs 6-9, genius.

Hence, what I said. See? I told you I got no problem holding y'all's hands.


So, I'm a poor man's version of a Poster of the Year, a nikka who is well respected on this site, despite it being known for haters, and nikkas that can't read?

You're complementing me and you don't even realize it.

We both from Inglewood, so shout out to @Rhakim

YOU KNOW @Rhakim FINISHED 2ND IN WOAT VOTING, RIGHT?

WELL RESPECTED?

HE WON POSTER OF THE YEAR IN SOME FORUM NO ONE EVEN VISITS. EVEN BRON GROUPIES ON THIS SITE THINK HIS SLURPIN IN THE COLISEUM IS EXTREME.