Is it fair to say that Nas is a better writer than Jay-z but Jay-z is a better rapper than Nas?

[Mike the Executioner]

You're right that he was ambitious and conceptual. That's definitely true. I just remember him speaking about that period and him saying he wasn't in the right headspace. And I think for artists like him, you can always hear that in the music.

Today, he's around other MC's and producers who are hungry, but he's also refreshed. So we can hear that, in how he sounds in the music. But when he was going through things in his personal life, he said it was tough for him to make music. Just so happens that those albums during that time, were kinda like his weakest joints.

He got bootlegged crazily in '98. Dudes leaked the whole I Am album, which in my opinion, was going to be his second best album, after Illmatic. The whole album was selling at the bootleg tables, on CD for $5. So the label wanted him to basically make a whole new album, so they didn't lose money. He made a couple albums worth of tracks in like 3-4 weeks, and that became the new version of I Am, and a lot of the other songs went on Nastradamus. And then some went to Lost Tapes. But I Am was originally supposed to be a double album, but the leak changed the whole direction of everything. He got rid of mad songs and just re-recorded the whole thing and dropped it as one disc. They rushed him to do it. That was the first album they say was bootlegged everywhere using mp3's for the first time. It was crazy.

I know he was definitely going through it in 2009/2010 with the divorce and the IRS issues. I'm guessing that's why he didn't release another album for four years. Distant Relatives was more of a side project, but there are some really good songs on it. Also, he was supposed to release The Lost Tapes II in 2010, but Def Jam wasn't supporting the project and that's when Nas sent the executives that email about mishandling the budget and disrespecting his legacy.

One thing I'll say about Nas during that period (2002-2008) was he was definitely angrier. It seemed like he didn't care who might take issue with what he said or did. You can hear that aggression in his voice. I guess that's why Life is Good felt different, because he was in a better place mentally and he got to enjoy things more.

This might be hard for you to figure out, but do you know which I Am.../Nastradamus songs were recorded earlier and which ones were brand new? I know "Project Windows" was from 1998. I always felt like I Am... was the best album we never got to hear and if it came out the way Nas intended, it would have made him the undisputed GOAT.

 

[NoHalfWay]

Nas is also not better than he was from '94-'98.

That's his prime. He's still dope though. The fact that he's doing what he is, at damn near 50 is crazy. But mid to late 90's Nas was untouchable. We're talking about a giant amongst men, back then. He was hungry, and the culture was way more competitive at the time, so there was no slacking. His beats were also dope as f*ck back then. But once the quality of beats started to decline, and he started f*cking with Salaam too heavily, I think he lost his inspiration. Salaam was good for a couple joints, but he didn't deserve to be Nas's damn music director, lol

Nas needs quality production and the right people around to keep him sharp. When he was working and recording alone, his sh*t wasn't the same. He needs to be around other great MC's. From '94-'98, he spent mad time around other legends, and that moved his pen better than any other time in his career.

Nas was a better lyricist and overall rapper in 2008 during the Untitled era than he was back then

It’s the swagger, street appeal, and mysticism that waned… and that’s because Nas got older and more politically outspoken. He pretty much a different style artist but still maintained the hood aspect. A true legacy act

In my opinion, Nas didn’t see a decline lyrically until after he took that hiatus post Life Is Good era… and most of that is because he just started mailing in verses & freestyling. Some of it is age…

 

[Cladyclad]

Nas was a better lyricist and overall rapper in 2008 during the Untitled era than he was back then

It’s the swagger, street appeal, and mysticism that waned… and that’s because Nas got older and more politically outspoken. He pretty much a different style artist but still maintained the hood aspect. A true legacy act

In my opinion, Nas didn’t see a decline lyrically until after he took that hiatus post Life Is Good era… and most of that is because he just started mailing in verses & freestyling. Some of it is age…

I don’t see how you can say 2008 nas was a better lyrically than 94-98

That’s crazy. I don’t think anything post 2008 has a shot at his top 20

 

[NoHalfWay]

I don’t see how you can say 2008 nas was a better lyrically than 94-98

That’s crazy. I don’t think anything post 2008 has a shot at his top 20

It’s because the music and mystique was better back then. The timelessness of the music in the mid-late 90’s is where he built his legacy

But if you just listen to Untitled era Nas besides the mediocre production, you will hear no drop off at all. Just talking from a technical aspect, his flow, rhyme schemes multi-syllables, his delivery… he was better than ever really

But artists don’t outlive the mystique of their commercial relevancy. His commercial peak was already past him. Yeah you can say the concept records & storytelling records in the 90’s early 00’s were fresher, more innovative, & relevant for the time period cuz Nas was a young dude still speaking for the youth of the streets. It was more impactful

But I don’t think Illmatic Nas was better lyrically than Untitled era Nas. More timeless and culturally impactful, but he wasn’t really better as a 17-20 year old

 

[Cladyclad]

It’s because the music and mystique was better back then. The timelessness of the music in the mid-late 90’s is where he built his legacy

But if you just listen to Untitled era Nas besides the mediocre production, you will hear no drop off at all. Just talking from a technical aspect, his flow, rhyme schemes multi-syllables, his delivery… he was better than ever really

But artists don’t outlive the mystique of their commercial relevancy. His commercial peak was already past him. Yeah you can say the concept records & storytelling records in the 90’s early 00’s were fresher, more innovative, & relevant for the time period cuz Nas was a young dude still speaking for the youth of the streets. It was more impactful

But I don’t think Illmatic Nas was better lyrically than Untitled era Nas. More timeless and culturally impactful, but he wasn’t really better as a 17-20 year old

Ok let’s do a versuz lyric wise

Give me 94-98

You can have 2006 and beyond

 

[Mook]

nas writes a lot of gibberish and he isnt fooling me.

 

[ThirdAct]

It’s because the music and mystique was better back then. The timelessness of the music in the mid-late 90’s is where he built his legacy

But if you just listen to Untitled era Nas besides the mediocre production, you will hear no drop off at all. Just talking from a technical aspect, his flow, rhyme schemes multi-syllables, his delivery… he was better than ever really

But artists don’t outlive the mystique of their commercial relevancy. His commercial peak was already past him. Yeah you can say the concept records & storytelling records in the 90’s early 00’s were fresher, more innovative, & relevant for the time period cuz Nas was a young dude still speaking for the youth of the streets. It was more impactful

But I don’t think Illmatic Nas was better lyrically than Untitled era Nas. More timeless and culturally impactful, but he wasn’t really better as a 17-20 year old

This is a good, interesting point. The 90's is the golden era and we have crazy nostalgia for it. But if you think about it, is Thun and Speechless any less fire than say Hate Me Now or If I Ruled the World? Not really, all great songs.

 

[NoHalfWay]

Ok let’s do a versuz lyric wise

Give me 94-98

You can have 2006 and beyond

I’ll post some later for sure, busy working right now. But I hear you dawg, we all gonna prefer the young hungry Nas out of queensbridge projects

But lyrically he ain’t fall off like that till 2013-2014

 

[spliz]

I’ll post some later for sure, busy working right now. But I hear you dawg, we all gonna prefer the young hungry Nas out of queensbridge projects

But lyrically he ain’t fall off like that till 2013-2014

Imma say this. I don't think nobody fukkin wit Nas IWW era rapping. Lol.

 

[NoHalfWay]

Imma say this. I don't think nobody fukkin wit Nas IWW era rapping. Lol.

Spliz, I HEAR you bro lol

Nas was THAT guy in 96. That man was literally rapping back then to escape poverty

My nikka’s life depended on it

 

[Awesome Wells]

This might be hard for you to figure out, but do you know which I Am.../Nastradamus songs were recorded earlier and which ones were brand new? I know "Project Windows" was from 1998. I always felt like I Am... was the best album we never got to hear and if it came out the way Nas intended, it would have made him the undisputed GOAT.

That was definitely the best album he's made since '98. I still have the OG tracks on my phone. Haven't stopped playing those songs since back then.

But "Some of Us Have Angels" was done earlier. He was doing a nice amount of work with Dame Grease back then. I think Ghetto Prisoners was the only one that was kept for I Am, and then a couple more Grease joints went on Nastradamus. And then Life We Chose was done earlier too, and ended up on there. They just split up the songs and then dropped the next album like 7 months later. Mad quickly.

 

[Awesome Wells]

Nas was a better lyricist and overall rapper in 2008 during the Untitled era than he was back then

Nah, never, bro.

Dude was easily Top 5 already, in his career, in '94-'98. I remember when Marley Marl pointed out how everyone was trying to mimic Nas's style, at the time. Everything he touched back, was crazy. The damn Nas mixtapes were selling out everywhere in the city. But it wasn't just hype. He was working at a different level during his first few years from Illmatic to I Am. He was still dope by '08, but his verses weren't getting the game shook, like they did when he was on that run after the first album.

'94-'98, people were saying dude was "the next Rakim". By '08, I remember seeing reviews that said his themes were "all over the place", and his song quality was "hypocritical and inconsistent". And that was true. He lacked direction for a few albums. And whenever he does, the rhymes suffer. He was trying to find himself as an artist during that time. And he even said people were coming up to him telling him to go back to how he was on Illmatic. And he said he couldn't do that because he's not that person anymore. But he said he was tired of talking about and celebrating Illmatic. People kept telling him to go back to that. I think he was getting that from a lot of people. Asking him to go back to that style. But he said he's not and that it's "over', lol.

 

[Izanami]

Is Jay the better artist or has he just been aligned with popular rnb/hip hop features and the crème de La crème of producers in the game (Neptune’s, Timbo, Kanye)? Is Jay the best artist or has he just gon on the direction of what’s hot at the time?

Let’s look at the top streamed JayZ song vs the top streamed Nas song.

Umbrella,Crazy In Love,Pound Cake, Love All,N***** In Paris,Monster,Holy Grail, Run This Town, Empire State Of Mind,Story of OJ

If I Ruled The World, The World Is Yours, NY State of Mind,10K, Nas AlbumDone, Life’s A bytch, Sorry Not Sorry, Ether, Adam&Eve, Made You Look

 

[Piff Perkins]

Nah, never, bro.

Dude was easily Top 5 already, in his career, in '94-'98. I remember when Marley Marl pointed out how everyone was trying to mimic Nas's style, at the time. Everything he touched back, was crazy. The damn Nas mixtapes were selling out everywhere in the city. But it wasn't just hype. He was working at a different level during his first few years from Illmatic to I Am. He was still dope by '08, but his verses weren't getting the game shook, like they did when he was on that run after the first album.

'94-'98, people were saying dude was "the next Rakim". By '08, I remember seeing reviews that said his themes were "all over the place", and his song quality was "hypocritical and inconsistent". And that was true. He lacked direction for a few albums. And whenever he does, the rhymes suffer. He was trying to find himself as an artist during that time. And he even said people were coming up to him telling him to go back to how he was on Illmatic. And he said he couldn't do that because he's not that person anymore. But he said he was tired of talking about and celebrating Illmatic. People kept telling him to go back to that. I think he was getting that from a lot of people. Asking him to go back to that style. But he said he's not and that it's "over', lol.

94-96, I don't think anyone was close to him. 97 yea you could say Biggie or Prodigy were better. 98-99 he was amazing but the final product we got for I Am/Nastradamus was questionable. But even then a lot of people had heard the leaks and understood it wasn't a matter of losing talent. Just picking the wrong tracks for the album. In short you aren't gonna find anyone who thinks Nas wasn't a top tier rapper - or the best - at some point during that period. 2001-2002...nothing needs to be said. KONY.

Once you get past that period it becomes more cloudy and you see divergence between casual fans, rap fans, and stans. There are dope songs on all the projects he dropped from 2004-2008 but you aren't going to find casual fans or unbiased rap fans saying he was "the best" then. And those albums don't move the needle in GOAT conversations at all. You can walk into a barbershop full of rap nikkas and none of them are going to list those albums. It's gonna be Illmatic, IWW, I Am, Stillmatic, and Life Is Good, depending on age. Same way the Hov dynamic would be Reasonable Doubt, Vol 1, Vol 2, Blueprint, Black Album. and American Gangster, depending on age.

 

[JustCKing]

Is Jay the better artist or has he just been aligned with popular rnb/hip hop features and the crème de La crème of producers in the game (Neptune’s, Timbo, Kanye)? Is Jay the best artist or has he just gon on the direction of what’s hot at the time?

Nas>>>>>> Jay Z, but let's not do this. They both worked with those producers breh. The difference between the two is Jay Z got some of their best work and by comparison the production Nas got from them wasn't as great.

I don't think Nas had much chemistry with The Neptunes (although I like "Popular Thug" remix and "Vernon Family"), but "Flyest Angels" is one of his worst songs.

With Timbaland, I felt like they had untapped potential. I feel like they could've created something crazier beyond 1 or 2 tracks given the range that both Nas and Timbo have that's why I want to hear that scrapped album so bad.

Kanye squandered a Nas album opportunity when he produced Nasir.

Still, Nas and Jay Z both worked with all of those guys before they became iconic producers (well except Nas worked with The Neptunes later in their career which was during their 2002-2006 peak).