Irv Gotti/Funk Flex interview from last yr; 1 topic: Illmatic vs. Reasonable Doubt

[spliz]

oh nah.

when I said "hippity-hop", I wasn't saying he was some nerd rapper or anything like that.

I understand the confusion tho.





this is the part where yall lose me.

while I agree that reasonable doubt wasn't poppin on illmatic levels or anything like that, I do remember it being on equal footing with "it was written" in '96. it didn't have the commercial success of IWW, of course, but on the east coast, it was just as popular. actually it was in better standing cuz the verdict was split on IWW in real-time. not saying jay-z himself was on equal footing with nas yet, but the release of those albums is what prolly sparked their rivalry.

ghostface album kinda got overlooked a bit cuz it wasn't OB4CL.
reasonable doubt was hotter than fugees on the streets.
a tribe called quest in 96??? come on breh. you tried to plug them in there on the slick.

shout out to foxy brown tho. cuz jay-z benefited big time from being associated with her.

Reasonable Doubt wasnt hotter than the Fugees in ANY capacity in real time. U smokin crack fam. Lol. Fugees was fukkin everywhere. Also. As far as RD vs IWW. No. They weren't on equal footing either. IWW was also FAR hotter on the streets than RD. That shyt was alotta nikkas introduction to Nas. U heard that shyt bumping out of damn near every whip. Outside of Ain't No nikka. Reasonable Doubt wasnt like that. nikka I couldnt go nowhere without hearing The Message or Street Dreams or Affirmative Action. This ain't about what album u thought was better. Dont try to use the fact "purists" hated on IWW to make like that shyt wasnt bumpin out a million speakers. I can name about 8 albums off the top of my head that nikkas bumped more heavily than RD in 96. nikkas bumped Busta Rhymes The Coming more than RD in 96.

 

[Homeboy Runny-Ray]

Reasonable Doubt wasnt hotter than the Fugees in ANY capacity in real time. U smokin crack fam. Lol. Fugees was fukkin everywhere. Also. As far as RD vs IWW. No. They weren't on equal footing either. IWW was also FAR hotter on the streets than RD. That shyt was alotta nikkas introduction to Nas. U heard that shyt bumping out of damn near every whip. Outside of Ain't No nikka. Reasonable Doubt wasnt like that. nikka I couldnt go nowhere without hearing The Message or Street Dreams or Affirmative Action. This ain't about what album u thought was better. Dont try to use the fact "purists" hated on IWW to make like that shyt wasnt bumpin out a million speakers. I can name about 8 albums off the top of my head that nikkas bumped more heavily than RD in 96. nikkas bumped Busta Rhymes The Coming more than RD in 96.

im not going off of opinion. just experience. also, we're not even from the same state breh.

not counting singles, I heard reasonable doubt just as much as IWW on the street level. and RD didn't have the backlash factor that IWW had.
youre forgetting that purists accounted for half of the streets back then, and in fairness, they were the majority around my way, so my standpoint is slightly skewed. the backlash wasn't quite as heavy in the next hood over, where I went to school at, but reasonable doubt got mad play on that end too. and shoot, somebody from here whose not even uptown at all might have a different perspective.

fugees & busta rhymes? you may as well just throw mr smith in there too. im talking about the streets, not the general.

 

[a1pacino]

Apologies for the late response @stomachlines have been flat out, appreciate your invite to this thank you.

I actually heard RD before I heard Illmatic, I heard Jay and Foxy on Ain’t No and was a huge Biggie fan at the time so when I heard him and Jay Z on ‘I love the dough’ I was sold on Jigga and went and bought RD and all of of the R&B joints he was all over at that time.

Fugees were huge at the time, used to listen to ‘The Score’ on my Walkman everywhere I went, lol!

It was around this time that I also heard ‘If I ruled the world’ with Nas and Lauren and I loved the song, went back on Nas and got Illmatic, IWW and was a fan from there on until now.

At this time neither RD or Illmatic were that popular where I’m from, it was Biggie/2Pac/Dr Dre/Ice Cube/LL/Fugees, these albums became more popular over time once people became more accustomed to the artists.

I must say that I prefer RD over Illmatic but it could be nostalgia speaking as I fully appreciate Illmatic as a masterpiece but Jay’s RD album really resonated with the vibe that I was around at that time so that’s my pick on this.

 

[I love Latina women]

Apologies for the late response @stomachlines have been flat out, appreciate your invite to this thank you.

I actually heard RD before I heard Illmatic, I heard Jay and Foxy on Ain’t No and was a huge Biggie fan at the time so when I heard him and Jay Z on ‘I love the dough’ I was sold on Jigga and went and bought RD and all of of the R&B joints he was all over at that time.

Fugees were huge at the time, used to listen to ‘The Score’ on my Walkman everywhere I went, lol!

It was around this time that I also heard ‘If I ruled the world’ with Nas and Lauren and I loved the song, went back on Nas and got Illmatic, IWW and was a fan from there on until now.

At this time neither RD or Illmatic were that popular where I’m from, it was Biggie/2Pac/Dr Dre/Ice Cube/LL/Fugees, these albums became more popular over time once people became more accustomed to the artists.

I must say that I prefer RD over Illmatic but it could be nostalgia speaking as I fully appreciate Illmatic as a masterpiece but Jay’s RD album really resonated with the vibe that I was around at that time so that’s my pick on this.

I appreciate your feedback and posts @a1pacino
Oh wow, ok ok.
I feel u.
The Fugees in 96' were on another level! Everybody I knew was bumping The Score too.
Yeah, I can remember buying It was Written on tape at Tower Records, actually my aunt bought it for me lol
But I feel u tho, I respect your opinion

 

[spliz]

im not going off of opinion. just experience. also, we're not even from the same state breh.

not counting singles, I heard reasonable doubt just as much as IWW on the street level. and RD didn't have the backlash factor that IWW had.
youre forgetting that purists accounted for half of the streets back then, and in fairness, they were the majority around my way, so my standpoint is slightly skewed. the backlash wasn't quite as heavy in the next hood over, where I went to school at, but reasonable doubt got mad play on that end too. and shoot, somebody from here whose not even uptown at all might have a different perspective.

fugees & busta rhymes? you may as well just throw mr smith in there too. im talking about the streets, not the general.

Son in the streets Busta Rhymes was def more played than Reasonable Doubt. And that's another thing I dont like how people act when it comes to Busta. But son I'm in NYC and I know for sure u heard more IWW, The Score, Mobb Deep, etc etc in the streets than Jay Z.

 

[Man]

One is definitely within top 5 albums of all time

The other is not even within top 5 albums of 1996






Jay Z and his payola friends have done a great job brainwashing the masses that don’t know any better

With that said RD is a great album

 

[Man]

Son in the streets Busta Rhymes was def more played than Reasonable Doubt. And that's another thing I dont like how people act when it comes to Busta. But son I'm in NYC and I know for sure u heard more IWW, The Score, Mobb Deep, etc etc in the streets than Jay Z.

nikkaz was even bumping Shyheim album more than RD

Lostboyz even

 

[Sin Simma]

Yeah it would have come out, but with Jay doing that hippedty lickedty splittedy fast shyt he was doing back in the day. After Illmatic dropped (along with some other joints, RTD like you said, plus also Only Built, Infamous and Doe or Die) and Jay switched his entire shyt up. It's no coincidence that RD also has three Premier beats exactly.

And don't get me wrong, RD is a classic 5 mic album and still my favorite Jay album...but let's not act like other albums didn't pave the way for it.

I truly believe Big L was the reason Jay switched his style. It happened right after their historic 95’ freestyle session with Stretch and Bobbito. I do think those albums and his mentor Bg Daddy Kane helped influenced RD, but the coincidence is crazy. L destroyed that session and Jay was amazed.

 

[spliz]

nikkaz was even bumping Shyheim album more than RD

Lostboyz even

Especially Lost Boyz.

 

[kingofnyc]

Both Biggie and Jay were influenced by Nas dropping. Biggie and Nas was around each other before Biggie blew up and Puff was riding around looking to sign Nas. Nas was first. From an emcee level. nikkas saw Nas was alotta nikkas switched they shyt up. Not to HIS per se. But switched up and developed their OWN shyt further. So Jay had the benefit of both seeing what Nas did. Then seeing what Biggie did. Jay was influenced by both them nikkas. It's not a one or the other type thing. And it came full circle. Nas peeped what Biggie was doing marketing and album wise and took from that as well.

puff wanted to sign Nas & Mobb cause he heard dem nikkaz 1st - dem nikkaz was pursuing a record deal as young teenagers while biggie wasn't, he took this MC’ing / rapping shyt casual

as far as influence - they all influenced each other cause everybody wanted to be the man
BUT
its this false sense by Nas heads - that Jay wanted to be Nas which doesn't make sense ... actual sales numbers in my previous post confirms it

 

[Knicksman20]

Especially Lost Boyz.

My Pops knew the hook to Lexus Coup, Bimmaz, & Benz when it dropped lol. That’s how in the streets they were back in 95 & he didn’t even listen to rap like that

 

[spliz]

puff wanted to sign Nas & Mobb cause he heard dem nikkaz 1st - dem nikkaz was pursuing a record deal as young teenagers while biggie wasn't, he took this MC’ing / rapping shyt casual

as far as influence - they all influenced each other cause everybody wanted to be the man
BUT
its this false sense by Nas heads - that Jay wanted to be Nas which doesn't make sense ... actual sales numbers in my previous post confirms it

U missed my point. Jay took parts from both them nikkas. He was influenced by Illmatic and Ready To Die. Biggie was influenced by Illmatic. And Nas was influenced by Ready To Die.

 

[kingofnyc]

Again, the argument is not sales for the simple fact Jay was able to calculate and eat off that dope boy rap, because he seen Nas and Bigs influence and impact.

Jay even said himself if RD didnt do number he was going to quit rap and go back to selling dope.

That right there tells you the confidence he had in his project with the particular climate in Hip Hop at the time.

Jay knew what he was up against, and like you said wanted to be the number rapper, so he abandoned the originator flow, observing 'authentic hip hop' is being phased out, created a Big Willy persona, positioned himself and the rest is history.

Jay wanted to associated himself with whoever was hot.

When Nas spurned Jays interests in collabing, he gravitated twords the next hot cat.

2 things i disagree with

1- Nas wasnt a dope boy rapper
2- Nas spurned Jay well after ; Jay gravitated toward Biggie

 

[Homeboy Runny-Ray]

people forget

theres a reason why volume 1 was so highly anticipated & much was expected.

a lot of people were expecting jay to take the crown with that album but he fumbled.

I think some of yall are a bit reactionary. I understand the turn-off, when it comes to the way reasonable doubt has been politicked into more than it was. but yall in here making it less than it was.

Son in the streets Busta Rhymes was def more played than Reasonable Doubt. And that's another thing I dont like how people act when it comes to Busta. But son I'm in NYC and I know for sure u heard more IWW, The Score, Mobb Deep, etc etc in the streets than Jay Z.

busta rhymes?? not on THAT level. again, you gotta realize that we're not even from the same state. we have our own scene, so a guy like busta whose a fringe major player in BK, isn't gonna be at the forefront out-of-town.

fugees? of course they were the biggest thing in black music at the time. even grandmas has their album. but on some strictly street chit, they weren't on THAT level. they didn't even have the hottest tape in their lane up here. that would be "illadelph halflife" by the roots.

theres really nothing more I can say concerning IWW/RD on the street tip. I will say that I heard IWW being played more overall tho.

mobb deep?? sure but this is pretty vague. mobb deep overall? - yea. but "hell on earth" specifically? I wouldn't say that.

 

[FeloniousMonk]

2 things i disagree with

1- Nas wasnt a dope boy rapper
2- Nas spurned Jay well after ; Jay gravitated toward Biggie

Okay, lets call him a street narrator..again which Jay was not at THAT time.