India About to Give Nigeria and Venezuela that Stimulus Package

[blackzeus]

You're making me realize that you either know nothing about Nigeria, or you are trolling to teach others a lesson.

Nigeria is a large nation with some of the best agricultural land in Africa and a real manufacturing sector. They were exporting all sorts of stuff before. But reliance on oil for quick cash ruined that - now they have to import food and manufactured goods, when they used to be a net exporter.

They've been selling off their oil for 50 years - when's it going to magically start developing their country? Per-capita GDP is lower than it was in the 1960s and half the country is poor. There's been improvement in the last decade, but it's come from the kind of reforms and internal production focus I'm talking about, NOT from oil money. The oil exports don't make other sectors stronger, they make them WORSE.

When in history was Nigeria a major exporter of manufactured goods breh?

 

[Professor Emeritus]

When in history was Nigeria a major exporter of manufactured goods breh?

I didn't say "major exporter", I said, "net exporter". The point was that Nigeria's manufacturing and agricultural sectors have actually gotten worse since Nigeria started selling oil, not better. Their per-capita GDP has gone DOWN since they started selling off their own natural resources to richer nations. Poverty has gotten WORSE. They are now forced to import things which they used to make for themselves. That's a problem for long-term stability and prosperity.


You claimed that Nigeria was a 3rd-world country that needed to sell off it's oil in order to build infrastructure. That's BS.

Look at this again:

The oil boom of the 1970s led Nigeria to neglect its strong agricultural and light manufacturing bases in favor of an unhealthy dependence on crude oil. In 2000, oil and gas exports accounted for more than 98% of export earnings and about 83% of federal government revenue. New oil wealth, the concurrent decline of other economic sectors, and a lurch toward a statist economic model fueled massive migration to the cities and led to increasingly widespread poverty, especially in rural areas.

A collapse of basic infrastructure and social services since the early 1980s accompanied this trend. By 2000, Nigeria's per capita income had plunged to about one-quarter of its mid-1970s high, below the level at independence. Along with the endemic malaise of Nigeria's non-oil sectors, the economy continues to witness massive growth of "informal sector" economic activities, estimated by some to be as high as 75% of the total economy.

Nigeria's proven oil reserves are estimated to be 35 billion barrels (5.6×109 m3); natural gas reserves are well over 100 trillion cubic feet (2,800 km3). Nigeria is a member of OPEC. The types of crude oil exported by Nigeria are Bonny light oil, Forcados crude oil, Qua Ibo crude oil and Brass River crude oil. Poor corporate relations with indigenous communities, vandalism of oil infrastructure, severe ecological damage, and personal security problems throughout the Niger Deltaoil-producing region continue to plague Nigeria's oil sector.

Oil dependency, and the allure it generated of great wealth through government contracts, spawned other economic distortions. The country's high propensity to import means roughly 80% of government expenditures is recycled into foreign exchange. Cheap consumer imports, resulting from a chronically overvalued Naira, coupled with excessively high domestic production costs due in part to erratic electricity and fuel supply, pushed down utilization of industrial capacity to less than 30%. Many more Nigerian factories would have closed except for relatively low labor costs (10%–15%). Domestic manufacturers, especially pharmaceuticals and textiles, have lost their ability to compete in traditional regional markets. However, there are signs that some manufacturers have begun to improve competitiveness.

Agriculture has suffered from years of mismanagement, inconsistent and poorly conceived government policies, neglect and the lack of basic infrastructure. Still, the sector accounts for over 26.8% of GDP and two-thirds of employment. Nigeria has 19 million head of cattle, the largest in Africa. Nigeria is no longer a major exporter of cocoa, groundnuts (peanuts), rubber, and palm oil. Cocoa production, mostly from obsolete varieties and overage trees, has nevertheless increased from around 180,000 tons annually to 350,000 tons.

A dramatic decline in groundnut and palm oil production also has taken place. Once the biggest poultry producer in Africa, corporate poultry output has been slashed from 40 million birds annually to about 18 million. Import constraints limit the availability of many agricultural and food processing inputs for poultry and other sectors. Fisheries are poorly managed. Most critical for the country's future, Nigeria's land tenure system does not encourage long-term investment in technology or modern production methods and does not inspire the availability of rural credit.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

The only reason Nigeria is doing this is for quick cash. There is no other justification.



Very simply, here is a roundup of why this is a bad idea for Nigeria:

1) Nigeria has been selling off its oil for 50 years. Reliance on oil sales has made the government more corrupt, made other industries get worse, increased conflict, and made the average person poorer. This is what usually happens in oil economies - easy cash inflow from natural resources is one of the worst ways to build a sustainable nation, for many of the same reasons that lottery winners always end up broke in five years.

2) Raw materials like oil are a limited resource. If your country is blessed by them, you don't give them up to other countries except under the best conditions. Right now, with oil prices low, it is NOT the best conditions. If oil really is essential for a national economy, then keep that stuff in the ground right now, because there will come a time 20, 50, 100 years from now when you will need it for your OWN country, and prices are likely to be a hell of a lot higher. And oil production is already declining in Nigeria, leading to all sorts of problems....so why the HELL are you selling it to others when you only have limited reserves left for yourself?

3) The most important thing a country can do for itself economically is to become self-sufficient. The primary places you need to do that are agriculture, energy, and manufacturing. Nigeria, despite fifty years of oil sales, is LESS self-sufficient in all three of those places than when it started the easy cash flow. All three have been neglected. Getting more oil cash doesn't make any of those three sectors better....in fact, it makes them worse.

4) Nigeria is a large country with many resources. They DON'T need oil money to make any of the necessary reforms. This isn't even remotely debatable if you understand the slightest thing about Nigeria. The natural resources, the ability to create infrastructure, the human resources - at a basic necessary level they're all there. What they need is a government that will focus on internal long-term self-sufficiency instead of external cash flow.

5) Oil has been a major driver of conflict in Nigeria. When foreign oil money is such a big focus, then attacking those oil operations can be an easy way for militants to attack the government as well as a way for them to abuse oil exports to get easy funding for themselves.

 

[Cynic]

You're making me realize that you either know nothing about Nigeria, or you are trolling to teach others a lesson.

Nigeria is a large nation with some of the best agricultural land in Africa and a real manufacturing sector. They were exporting all sorts of stuff before. But reliance on oil for quick cash ruined that - now they have to import food and manufactured goods, when they used to be a net exporter.

They've been selling off their oil for 50 years - when's it going to magically start developing their country? Per-capita GDP is lower than it was in the 1960s and half the country is poor. There's been improvement in the last decade, but it's come from the kind of reforms and internal production focus I'm talking about, NOT from oil money. The oil exports don't make other sectors stronger, they make them WORSE.

I've had chin chin, egusi, moi moi, pounded yam ... partied with Abuja/Lagos n!ggas, smashed naija "bakassi"
and met several government officials in the water and urban development sectors.

The one variable your "Akata" ass forgot to account for is the culture and sentiment of Nigerians.
They've been electing military generals for decades and corruption is rife. It's a practice every
single member of state is involved in. You got young'ns looking to get into power just to get paid

Nigeria right now is currently in recession because they are so oil dependent and caught up
in the Saud-Iran bullsh!t by default, I'm well aware of Naijas former prowess in textiles and
other industries.

but riddle me this ....

With systemic corruption and a recession caused by low oil prices....

Where do you expect to get the funding to rebuild these industries if you stop selling oil ?

IMF ? Worldbank ?


You think these old military n!ggas wanna give up the oil finnessing to develop the country ?

fool, you dey craze


YOUR FADA

 

[Professor Emeritus]

The one variable your "Akata" ass forgot to account for is the culture and sentiment of Nigerians.
They've been electing military generals for decades and corruption is rife. It's a practice every
single member of state is involved in. You got young'ns looking to get into power just to get paid

Nigeria right now is currently in recession because they are so oil dependent and caught up
in the Saud-Iran bullsh!t by default, I'm well aware of Naijas former prowess in textiles and
other industries.

but riddle me this ....

With systemic corruption and a recession caused by low oil prices....

Where do you expect to get the funding to rebuild these industries if you stop selling oil ?

IMF ? Worldbank ?


You think these old military n!ggas wanna give up the oil finnessing to develop the country ?

Wait, so you admit corruption is a huge problem, you claim that every member of government is corrupt, you state that the current government doesn't really want to develop the country....so your solution is to sell off the natural resources and mortgage the future in order to put quick, easy money in the hands of today’s corrupt, uninterested officials???




If corruption is a huge issue, then KEEP YOUR DAMN OIL IN THE GROUND UNTIL YOU GET THAT CORRUPTION IN CHECK. It looks highly possible that Nigeria has already hit peak oil, at least peak oil for current extraction techniques. To accelerate the pumping and selling of that oil out of country at the very time when endemic corruption makes it least likely to benefit the country, and thus mortgage the coming future when you won’t have any oil left over at all…how stupid can you be?



You DON’T NEED OIL MONEY to fix the issues in the agriculture and manufacturing sectors. You don’t need aid money either. Those sectors were stronger than they are today back before a single dollar of oil profits had started rolling in to the country. What you need is to reform trade law, reform business law, reform corrupt government, reform foreign relations, direct existing government resources towards the encouragement of sustainable practice in agriculture and manufacturing, and meet the people’s needs in such a way that will drive down the oil-fueled conflicts which are devastating parts of the country.

Nigeria has 185,000,000 people and a trillion dollar economy, of which oil only accounts for 2.8%. Far smaller countries, with far less natural wealth, have developed their nations in the last 50-60 years without needing oil revenue to do it. And the countries that do have oil revenue appear to be absolutely shyt at developing. Do you not see the trend?

Now, you may think so crap like, “It’s stupid to believe that Nigeria can reform in those ways.” And you’re right that I don’t know the actual probability for reform, although as I said, there’s been more positive work in that direction in the last decade than before. But even if reform is unlikely, how stupid is it to mortgage the future and give away the natural wealth of your country, at a time when prices are low, when you have a system in place that guarantees that the majority of those benefits will never reach the public? You might say, “You’ll never stop a corrupt government from selling away the nation’s wealth for short-term profit at the absolute worst time.” But the fact that it might be hard to stop them from doing something stupid, doesn’t mean that you should be caping for inevitable stupidity.

 

[Cynic]

Wait, so you admit corruption is a huge problem, you claim that every member of government is corrupt, you state that the current government doesn't really want to develop the country....so your solution is to sell off the natural resources and mortgage the future in order to put quick, easy money in the hands of today’s corrupt, uninterested officials???

It's not my solution... these are the immutable facts of Nigerian politics
When will your idealistic hippie ass get that through you head ?

If corruption is a huge issue, then KEEP YOUR DAMN OIL IN THE GROUND UNTIL YOU GET THAT CORRUPTION IN CHECK. It looks highly possible that Nigeria has already hit peak oil, at least peak oil for current extraction techniques. To accelerate the pumping and selling of that oil out of country at the very time when endemic corruption makes it least likely to benefit the country, and thus mortgage the coming future when you won’t have any oil left over at all…how stupid can you be?



You DON’T NEED OIL MONEY to fix the issues in the agriculture and manufacturing sectors. You don’t need aid money either. Those sectors were stronger than they are today back before a single dollar of oil profits had started rolling in to the country. What you need is to reform trade law, reform business law, reform corrupt government, reform foreign relations, direct existing government resources towards the encouragement of sustainable practice in agriculture and manufacturing, and meet the people’s needs in such a way that will drive down the oil-fueled conflicts which are devastating parts of the country.
out needing oil revenue to do it. And the countries that do have oil revenue appear to be absolutely shyt at developing. Do you not see the trend?

Nigeria doesn't need oil money in a recession tied to low oil prices brehs
Reform will fund our infrastructure not syndicated loans or our major foreign currency generator

Let's pay these American Yankees and British blokes in Naira brehs
We are going to tell various tribes their cash cow is gone due to reform brehs

Nigeria has 185,000,000 people and a trillion dollar economy, of which oil only accounts for 2.8%. Far smaller countries, with far less natural wealth, have developed their nations in the last 50-60 years with
Now, you may think so crap like, “It’s stupid to believe that Nigeria can reform in those ways.” And you’re right that I don’t know the actual probability for reform, although as I said, there’s been more positive work in that direction in the last decade than before. But even if reform is unlikely, how stupid is it to mortgage the future and give away the natural wealth of your country, at a time when prices are low, when you have a system in place that guarantees that the majority of those benefits will never reach the public? You might say, “You’ll never stop a corrupt government from selling away the nation’s wealth for short-term profit at the absolute worst time.” But the fact that it might be hard to stop them from doing something stupid, doesn’t mean that you should be caping for inevitable stupidity.

Really ?

 

[blackzeus]

I didn't say "major exporter", I said, "net exporter". The point was that Nigeria's manufacturing and agricultural sectors have actually gotten worse since Nigeria started selling oil, not better. Their per-capita GDP has gone DOWN since they started selling off their own natural resources to richer nations. Poverty has gotten WORSE. They are now forced to import things which they used to make for themselves. That's a problem for long-term stability and prosperity.


You claimed that Nigeria was a 3rd-world country that needed to sell off it's oil in order to build infrastructure. That's BS.

Look at this again:

So what you're saying was prior to the oil boom they were exporting other raw materials such as food? You made it sound like they were exporting cars and televisions

Also you do realize that since the '50s Nigeria's population has swelled by about 5X to almost 200 million right? Are you really comparing demand with a population of 40 million to demand with a population of 180 million? Your hippy azz think maybe the population growth is a major reason for them becoming a net importer?

 

[Red Shield]

I see some smilely potential in this