In case it needs to be said again...

[RammerJammer]

This is not the first time Rollins is positioned as the main guy and business did shytty numbers then (2015 I think?) too

He was booked exactly like Orton a year before and half the roster was on the operating table in 2015

 

[Jmare007]

He was booked exactly like Orton a year before and half the roster was on the operating table in 2015

They booked him like shyt then too. He was losing every week it seemed. At the time he blew out his knee, I think he’d lost some 70% of his matches he’d wrestled since winning the title. They gave him a jbl title run. Nobody can look good or draw when they’re booked to lose matches against their own henchmen. They take obvious home run angles and ruin them all the time. The only thing this company consistently does is flagrantly sabotage everyone while pushing people nobody wants at the same time.

I'm not gonna defend the booking at all because that's impossible. Seth has been as much of a victim as anyone on the roster of it - even a guy that supposed to be THE top guy like Reigns -, but he honestly hasn't done shyt to even attempt to make things remotely interesting. My point is that we have been this road with Rollins before

Ok but who wouldnt have done "shytty numbers" if they replaced rollins? Brock and bryan have better numbers but they were still shyt overall

In 2019 I honestly don't know because my viewing of WWE is very limited. And to be honest, I'm pretty sure the vast majority of fans blame WWE booking for how shytty the product is and they put way less responsibility on the talent.

I'm not even blaming Seth (or Kofi, or Becky) for this abysmal time WWE is going through. My point was that we've been in this path with Rollins before. We are in year 6 of him being a member of the roster, he's been positioned as top guy in half of that time and we know what he brings and what he doesn't. He's very similar to Orton. that's why I was wondering in the other thread if Seth is actually worse as "star" for WWE

If you look at the year 2018 in total, Rollins was the most popular wrestler on the roster. It was worth a try and he earned this face run. There wasn’t any better options.

I remember him being incredibly over at the beginning of last year, to the point I was about it thinking he was finally becoming a Jeff Hardy 2.0 type of face to the audience. And then I saw him some months later at Summerslam against Ziggler and the crowd completely turned on his match, like they've done in the past.

I don't doubt your argument because my viewing of RAW is limited to less than 8-10 shows a year at this point, so he might have been the most over guy on that roster. But even during the Mania buildup for this year you could clearly see that Kofi's journey was treated as a way bigger deal than Seth's going in to WM. It's not like it was gonna be a surprise if he didn't catch fire as the main champ.

It's fun to bring up the drawing card when you think the guy at the forefront sucks and you want to shyt on him, but the reality is WWE ratings have been on a steady decline literally since the Raw after WM 17. That's 18 years of steady, consistently declining ratings, which means every single top guy in that time is also a "failed" draw who lost the audience. This includes: Austin, Rock, HHH, Taker, HBK, Kurt Angle, Rey Mysterio, Eddie Guerrero, Chris Benoit, Hulk Hogan, John Cena, Batista, Randy Orton, Brock Lesnar, Edge, Christian, Mark Henry, Juicy Jinder, CM Punk, Booker T, JBL, Roman Reigns, Seth Rollins, Dean Ambrose, AJ Styles.

That's disingenuous, up until what, 3 years ago? (maybe less), ratings were the least important of the traditional drawing metrics for wrestling. Guys like Cena, Batista and a lot of people you just named had good runs drawing in at least 1 metric of house shows, merchandise, PPV buys or TV ratings.

So no, not every top guy has failed

 

[stro]

I'm not gonna defend the booking at all because that's impossible. Seth has been as much of a victim as anyone on the roster of it - even a guy that supposed to be THE top guy like Reigns -, but he honestly hasn't done shyt to even attempt to make things remotely interesting. My point is that we have been this road with Rollins before



In 2019 I honestly don't know because my viewing of WWE is very limited. And to be honest, I'm pretty sure the vast majority of fans blame WWE booking for how shytty the product is and they put way less responsibility on the talent.

I'm not even blaming Seth (or Kofi, or Becky) for this abysmal time WWE is going through. My point was that we've been in this path with Rollins before. We are in year 6 of him being a member of the roster, he's been positioned as top guy in half of that time and we know what he brings and what he doesn't. He's very similar to Orton. that's why I was wondering in the other thread if Seth is actually worse as "star" for WWE



I remember him being incredibly over at the beginning of last year, to the point I was about it thinking he was finally becoming a Jeff Hardy 2.0 type of face to the audience. And then I saw him some months later at Summerslam against Ziggler and the crowd completely turned on his match, like they've done in the past.

I don't doubt your argument because my viewing of RAW is limited to less than 8-10 shows a year at this point, so he might have been the most over guy on that roster. But even during the Mania buildup for this year you could clearly see that Kofi's journey was treated as a way bigger deal than Seth's going in to WM. It's not like it was gonna be a surprise if he didn't catch fire as the main champ.



That's disingenuous, up until what, 3 years ago? (maybe less), ratings were the least important of the traditional drawing metrics for wrestling. Guys like Cena, Batista and a lot of people you just named had good runs drawing in at least 1 metric of house shows, merchandise, PPV buys or TV ratings.

So no, not every top guy has failed

By the ratings metrics, they are. My point was when you have the nerds that say "x isn't a draw" or "ratings in 2019 are down because of specific guy on top", they're ignoring that WWE has been on a steady decline in ratings since WM 17. It's a damn near straight line on a bar graph. Putting the blame on whoever is the current top guy is missing historical trends that are about more than whoever the top guy is. WWE got so high during the Attitude Era it took them 20 fukking years to get back to normal.

 

[Slic Ric]

This is not the first time Rollins is positioned as the main guy and business did shytty numbers then (2015 I think?) too

I've never seen it in Rollins, even going back to the early shield days he was clearly the weakest overall talent of the trio. I just screams "tag wrestler/mid card" and has been painted as "the new generation HBK' for years from WWE when he just doesn't have a fraction of Michaels talent

 

[Rarely-Wrong Liggins]

People want to blame the company and booking when their favorites have their feet to the fire. And it is the company and booking as I've been preaching for years but it's funny how y'all only acknowledge the truth when forced.

 

[Yade]

It sucks because it’s corny , there’s no gimmicks , there’s no stories , it’s just like they randomly fight for respect and stupid like that , look at nakamura they ruined his character so bad , remember how big he was in NXT ?


alll AEW needs is CM Punk and literally just start ANYTHING fresh and they pretty much got it , WWE is just too corporate it’s all cancered up

 

[Jmare007]

By the ratings metrics, they are. My point was when you have the nerds that say "x isn't a draw" or "ratings in 2019 are down because of specific guy on top", they're ignoring that WWE has been on a steady decline in ratings since WM 17. It's a damn near straight line on a bar graph. Putting the blame on whoever is the current top guy is missing historical trends that are about more than whoever the top guy is. WWE got so high during the Attitude Era it took them 20 fukking years to get back to normal.

Oh, yeah. Ratings talk is pretty dumb unless is for trolling or shyt like TV deals

 

[Bonefan32]

Rollins is overrated trash

Annoying raspy voice

Ugly slimey long cac hair

Annoying entitled attitude

Sloppy in ring work

No legit moveset

garbage finisher

Always injuring himself and others

Disgustingly hairy chest

Repped,well said

 

[MenacingMonk]

I wonder how things would be if Brock was champ? It’s gonna happen, so let’s see how Things go.

I put most blame on booking and creative. I can’t disregard Seth tho; I’ll put 15% to 20% of it on him.

 

[GoddamnyamanProf]

Anyone still trying to play these little "blame the talent" games is a fukking clown.

End of discussion.

 

[mrken12]

I wonder how things would be if Brock was champ?

Even worse.

 

[Slic Ric]

Y’all gotta give Rollins the same energy you give Orton and tbf Orton actually was interesting at a certain point

 

[TheGreatShowtime]

Hard to get any momentum when Undertaker, Triple H, Brock Lesnar, Cena and The Rock are still hanging around. Austin/Rock didn't have to worry about Bret/Shawn coming in and stopping their momentum. Bret/Shawn didn't have to worry about Hogan/Macho Man stopping their momentum. Hogan/Macho Man didn't have to worry about Backlund/Bruno stopping their momentum. But these guys do.

This is what happens when there's no competition. We're stuck with nostalgia acts.

 

[Here Comes the Pain]

A lot of the 'talent' are not real draws which is why you see a 50 plus year old undertaker still being promoted for shows.

Y'all thought when Daniel Bryan came back he was gonna be this incredible draw & look how that turned out.

The last proven draw that the WWE had was Cena.

 

[The Intergalactic Koala]

A lot of the 'talent' are not real draws which is why you see a 50 plus year old undertaker still being promoted for shows.

Y'all thought when Daniel Bryan came back he was gonna be this incredible draw & look how that turned out.

The last proven draw that the WWE had was Cena.

Cena was the last dying breed of wrestling. Dude got shytted on by the fans but guess who came to see his matches to shyt on him...the fans. His promo game was like looking at the watch on the wrist, he manipulated the crowd in a instant which is rare nowadays in wrestling. We all like to put Cena on the backburner for some justifiable reasoning, but you got to accept the fact that not Rollins, the company, or either "the man" can wear his Jorts as a well rounded wrestler. You will never hear the crowd do "smark" chants to get over in a Cena match because they too busy trying to see if Cena is going to take the L or gain the win. Not much to be said with goobers like Rollins who seek self approval despite the fact that he's really a midcarder to the soul but a main eventer to the eye of the desperate.