Immigration Amnesty: The Path to Poverty

[theworldismine13]

...which means rate is decoupled from # of immigrants.

i agree that you can make that assertion based on the report, but the report itself doesnt prove or show that

If rate can increase independently of a rise in immigrants, the relationship has already proven to NOT be inversely proportional.

I don't need to prove a thing.

and if the rate was all we were concerned about and it was the bottom line you would have a point, but it isnt, the bottom line is the amount assimilation and the study supports the assertion that AMOUNT assimilation is proportional to amount of immigrants (which is actually common sense)

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

hmm because rate is different than amount

just like amount of fuel is different than mpg

And what about the correlation between the presence of illegal immigrants and the assimilation rates of legal immigrants?

 

[theworldismine13]

I got my info from the DHS website

U.S. Legal Permanent Residents: 2012 | Homeland Security

Biggest country legally was Mexico (146K) but biggest region was Asia (430K+) vs ~400K for the Americas, which includes the Carribean, South America and Canada

Thats besides the point though

How does an illegal immigrant keep a legal immigrant from assimilating

And what about the correlation between the presence of illegal immigrants and the assimilation rates of legal immigrants?

What you posted is the number of green cards given in 2012, and like I said there has been a recent surge in Asian immigrants in the past couple of years, but the overall immigrant population is mostly from Mexico and Latin America

a measure of assimilation for example is English, If you have more illegal immigrants around legal immigrants, the less assimilation you have becuase the immigrant is not forced to speak English and not forced to interact with the mainstream as much

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

What you posted is the number of green cards given in 2012, and like I said there has been a recent surge in Asian immigrants in the past couple of years, but the overall immigrant population is mostly from Mexico and Latin America

I didnt imply or say it was anything else, I just posted that to show a trend

You claimed "illegal immigration has to be reduced to allow the assimilation of legal immigrants already here"... but illegal immigration has been declining, w/a lot of illegals going home voluntarily and borders getting harder to cross. Plus the group with the highest rate of growth is generally pretty well educated and quick to assimilate, w/a high priority on education and pretty much no illegals (Asians)

a measure of assimilation for example is English, If you have more illegal immigrants around legal immigrants, the less assimilation you have becuase the immigrant is not forced to speak English and not forced to interact with the mainstream as much

Any documented proof of this? There are many countries for which 50% their legal immigrants are not proficient in English. And despite claims otherwise most immigrants, even Latinos, are here legally. Even if all illegals here are Latino, their legal counterparts outnumber them by 5:1, and are increasing in number while illegals are decreasing. So what are you talking about? Illegals are not the problem, unless you have something more concrete than theories showing otherwise.

Not to mention, "they" can't even get natural born Americans of different races and socioeconomic realms to "assimilate", so what is this magic bullet you think they have to bring people together of completely different cultures? How is a legal immigrant who can't speak English any more likely or helpful in overall assimilation than an illegal one?

 

[theworldismine13]

I didnt imply or say it was anything else, I just posted that to show a trend

actually you did, you said

Originally Posted by She Agree That I'm Looney View Post
How does the presence of illegals (primarily comprised of Central Americans) interfere with the assimilation of legals (primarily comprised of Asians, Africans)

There is very little overlap between the two groups

which is a false statement, legal immigrants are primarily composed of mexicans and central american and south americans, the same as illegals, so there is a lot of overlap between the 2 groups

the increase in asian migration is a phenomena that started a couple of years ago, in fact a made a thread about it http://www.the-coli.com/higher-lear...-overtaking-latin-americans.html#.UU0byjfm8eo

but it will be a long time before that trend changes the fact that the vast majority of immigrants legal and illegal are from mexico and central and south america so there is an overlap

You claimed "illegal immigration has to be reduced to allow the assimilation of legal immigrants already here"... but illegal immigration has been declining, w/a lot of illegals going home voluntarily and borders getting harder to cross. Plus the group with the highest rate of growth is generally pretty well educated and quick to assimilate, w/a high priority on education and pretty much no illegals (Asians)

yeah illegal immigration is declining and i said it needs to decline more

i dont see how an increase in asian migration disputes my point

Any documented proof of this? There are many countries for which 50% their legal immigrants are not proficient in English. And despite claims otherwise most immigrants, even Latinos, are here legally. Even if all illegals here are Latino, their legal counterparts outnumber them by 5:1, and are increasing in number while illegals are decreasing. So what are you talking about? Illegals are not the problem, unless you have something more concrete than theories showing otherwise.

dude just posted a study that says there is less assimilation among immigrants and specifically points out mexican immigrants as having less assimilation than other immigrants

i dont have "proof" but i think the lack of assimilation of mexicans is related to the large number of illegal mexicans

Not to mention, "they" can't even get natural born Americans of different races and socioeconomic realms to "assimilate", so what is this magic bullet you think they have to bring people together of completely different cultures? How is a legal immigrant who can't speak English any more likely or helpful in overall assimilation than an illegal one?

america does have a problem assimilating people of different races and social levels and that is a problem, the article was saying that giving amnesty would make it worse

there is no magic bullet to bring together of completely different cultures, but adding illegal immigrants doesnt help you do that, that was the point of the article

How is a legal immigrant who can't speak English any more likely or helpful in overall assimilation than an illegal one?

obviously because an illegal one is more likely to stay out of the mainstream

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

Where did the article say giving amnesty would make it worse?

And how does an illegal immigrant keep a LEGAL immigrant from entering the mainstream?

 

[theworldismine13]

Where did the article say giving amnesty would make it worse?

i think its funny that when i answer your questions and point out your false statements you simply abandon them and move on

but lets play your little game

Where did the article say giving amnesty would make it worse?

it doesnt say it directly, you would have to use some brain power which you seem to lack but the article says it here

Yet American elites seem determined to enlarge and perpetuate a problem they already don't know how to solve: how to create economic opportunities for the least economically competitive half of the population.

....

Why on earth would we deliberately expand the ranks of the least skilled by tens of millions more people imported from abroad, whose grandchildren and great-grandchildren will still require government aid into the 22nd century? That's the question to keep in mind as the American elite tumbles its way to unthinking consensus in favor of a second large immigration amnesty in 30 years.

so in other words its saying that granting amnesty would make the problem of the wealth gap worse

And how does an illegal immigrant keep a LEGAL immigrant from entering the mainstream?

i just gave an example when it comes to english, illegal immigrants increase the pool of people that dont speak english, then business start putting up the 'press 2 for spanish' to deal with the legal and illegal spanish speakers so then legal immigrants that normally would be forced to learn english have less reason to

i see that a lot, nowadays you can come from mexico or another spanish speaking country and do everything from opening up a bank account, getting a license and voting without the need to speak english, in the long run that creates a dual segregated world that will make it harder to alleviate the wealth gap

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

it doesnt say it directly

So in other words, that's just your subjective interpretation

i just gave an example when it comes to english, illegal immigrants increase the pool of people that dont speak english,

Legal immigrants do too, whats your point?

Not to mention, half of the immigrants from some of these countries legally don't speak English. And they are coming in in increasing numbers, while net illegal immigration is zero. So if the problem is people not speaking english, why focus on people who aren't coming into the country?

 

[theworldismine13]

So in other words, that's just your subjective interpretation

not really, i think thats a pretty objective interpretation, the author was suggesting that amnesty will worsen the wealth gap and cost money, i dont see what other interpretation there could be

Legal immigrants do too, whats your point?

Not to mention, half of the immigrants from some of these countries legally don't speak English. And they are coming in in increasing numbers, while net illegal immigration is zero. So if the problem is people not speaking english, why focus on people who aren't coming into the country?

but the problem isnt that immigrants dont speak english, the problem is the level of assimilation once they get here

the problem is that, at least until recently, the immigrants but especially the illegal immigrants were all coming from countries that spoke spanish

if everybody is speaking a bunch of different languages then the legal immigrant will be forced to learn english to communicate, because english is the common language, but if most immigrants are speaking spanish then the legal immigrant will have less reason to learn english

so since the vast majority of illegals speak spanish, reducing illegal immigration will decrease the incentive for balkanization around language

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

How does 1 illegal immigrant prevent 5 legal immigrants from assimilating?

 

[theworldismine13]

How does 1 illegal immigrant prevent 5 legal immigrants from assimilating?

i thought i just explained that, what is it that you are not understanding

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

i thought i just explained that, what is it that you are not understanding

No, you didn't. And you didn't offer any proof to substantiate your opinion.

 

[theworldismine13]

No, you didn't. And you didn't offer any proof to substantiate your opinion.

The proof that there is less assimilation today than previous has already been presented and the reason for less assimilation is the increase in the amount of immigrants I common sense says if you reduce the number of immigrants then you increase assimilation

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

The proof that there is less assimilation today than previous has already been presented and the reason for less assimilation is the increase in the amount of immigrants I common sense says if you reduce the number of immigrants then you increase assimilation

Assimilation is increasing. Overall right now it is lower because there are more new immigrants, but that is irrelevant because these new immigrants are assimilating more quickly. Assimilation is not an issue, illegals "preventing assimilation" is not an issue.

 

[theworldismine13]

Assimilation is increasing. Overall right now it is lower because there are more new immigrants, but that is irrelevant because these new immigrants are assimilating more quickly. Assimilation is not an issue, illegals "preventing assimilation" is not an issue.

Well again the rate of assimilation is increasing but the amount of assimilation is decreasing, so by reducing the number of illegal immigrants the amount of assimilation will increase

I don't see how the number of illegal immigrants is irrelevant, maybe it's irrelevant to you personally, but it's relevant to the amount of assimilation and the amount of assimilation in turn is related to the wealth gap, so assimilation is an issue