illmatic: lyrical masterpiece or fraud?
- Thread starter intilectual recipricol
- Start date
bigbadbossup2012
Biggest baddest boss
ANd i've never met anyone that cared about the songs you named.
Even if that were true, surely you'd only have to travel/observe wider to see that millions of people care for those songs. More than 20 years later.
That ain't by coincidence. And you can't buy/invent that kind of love, either
bigbadbossup2012
Biggest baddest boss
Well it took 7 years for this album that "millions of people care about" to go platinum even though it was released on a major and had video rotation on the biggest outlets. That same year biggie released his debut which was plat in 6 months. Da brat released her debut that went plat around 6 months too. Bone's debut went double plat in around 6 months. outkast's debut went plat in one year.Warren g's debut was double in 3 months. So it's clear what made real impact and what DIDNT. Illmatic's legacy is an east coast print media creation that is sustained by nasir's career following that.
If a magazine or some tv documentary runs a story on 1994 etc and they're treating illmatic like it was a big deal and made a big splash,despite it's failure in comparison to the projects i named,that should clearly indicate propaganda that helps this album's legacy.
Ask yourself,why is this album probably the most media praised hiphop album of 1994 in particular,even though it's far behind in the impact it made on the general public?
Trust me,that type of love can definitely be invented if told to you enough times through media. Look at the push for gayness in america. Look at the POTUS cosigning and saying he's "proud" of this cross dressing weirdo "caitlyn" plenty of brainwashed people will be raised thinking this is normal just like brainwashed people believe illmatic really meant something. And for the same reasons.
blah blah blah you care way too much about stats. You a hip hop head or a pop fan? Because only pop fans care about how many people buy albums, platinum, etc as the primary measure for greatness.
You're talking about an album that was so heavily bootlegged prior to release, which obviously limited sales. And had zero crossover songs unlike Biggie's (which was designed like Illmatic in certain ways but with crossover desires).
You're right - in 1994 most people outside of New York weren't really up on Nas like that. But those who knew knew. And they thought he was fukking incredible. As the years passed, the album rose in stature. Like all great music should.
so what's the problem?
bigbadbossup2012
Biggest baddest boss
just in case you dont know. We had illmatic in 1994 my friend. None of my friends had or cared about it. I never heard anyone bumping it (i would know,WE HAD IT) from homes or cars etc. Nas sampled a song from the biggest album of all time for his first single,did he not? Sounds like crossover to meblah blah blah you care way too much about stats. You a hip hop head or a pop fan? Because only pop fans care about how many people buy albums, platinum, etc as the primary measure for greatness.
You're talking about an album that was so heavily bootlegged prior to release, which obviously limited sales. And had zero crossover songs unlike Biggie's (which was designed like Illmatic in certain ways but with crossover desires).
You're right - in 1994 most people outside of New York weren't really up on Nas like that. But those who knew knew. And they thought he was fukking incredible. As the years passed, the album rose in stature. Like all great music should.
so what's the problem?
. Albums get bootlegged everyday B 
. The hotter you are the more bootlegged you get. There's footage of 2pac confronting a bootlegger in NY in 1991. They had a west coast digital undergound album out there. i dont care too much about stats,what you really want to say is I CARE TOO MUCH ABOUT FACTS,BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT I'M STATING. You're telling me how much people cared from an opinion standpoint and i'm SHOWING YOU HOW MUCH PEOPLE DIDNT CARE BY POINTING OUT FACTS NUMERICALLY. It didnt "rise in stature" It was repeatedly talked up in media for years which will influence people to fukk with it. Along with nasir's success following that. There wasnt some big word of mouth situation where people went crazy over illmatic. It was told to you through media Kendrick Lamar style. In what ways was RTD designed like Illmatic?Illmatic allegedly meant so much but it's clear whom changed their style after that and wanted be a "nikka in a pink suit trying to get cute"
Allegedly illmatic changed hiphop,but everyone was really following bad boy including nas.
bigbadbossup2012
Biggest baddest boss
By the way,i dont think sales determine the quality. I brought up sales cause you start talking about how much people loved it. I think it's meh cause of mediocre boring beats,forgettable flowsblah blah blah you care way too much about stats. You a hip hop head or a pop fan? Because only pop fans care about how many people buy albums, platinum, etc as the primary measure for greatness.
You're talking about an album that was so heavily bootlegged prior to release, which obviously limited sales. And had zero crossover songs unlike Biggie's (which was designed like Illmatic in certain ways but with crossover desires).
You're right - in 1994 most people outside of New York weren't really up on Nas like that. But those who knew knew. And they thought he was fukking incredible. As the years passed, the album rose in stature. Like all great music should.
so what's the problem?
bigbadbossup2012
Biggest baddest boss
My favorite rapper tupac is better than nas and twenty years later nas still can't eclipse him
intilectual recipricol
Killin fake hip hop
thats what I'm explaining to these creeps @bigbadbossup2012 illmatic literally had ZERO affect on the culture and he changed to a better style to be more relevant and NO ONE started rappin incoherent non-sense like naS was on illmatic.
bigbadbossup2012
Biggest baddest boss
Exactly, I remember arguing with @artbarr about this. He said nas ushered in the end of the "style era " and I know what he was trying to say. But in reality stylish nikkas kept running the game.
Your friends are not the entire world.
Nas sampled a song from the biggest album of all time for his first single,did he not? Sounds like crossover to me
SWV sampled MJ and barely went Gold. and that song was huge. And they're an RnB group, which if you know at that time, was more marketable than rap.
So yeah....you were expecting a hood rapper to go platinum off an MJ sample?
Albums get bootlegged everyday B
Illmatic allegedly meant so much but it's clear whom changed their style after that and wanted be a "nikka in a pink suit trying to get cute"
Allegedly illmatic changed hiphop,but everyone was really following bad boy including nas.
The rest of your post is rambling and all over the place.
Fact of the matter is this: Illmatic is an incredible album. And people started realizing that organically and slowly.
It happens often with great art. Great art doesn't come out and smash records. It simply grows in stature as the years go by.
Did Citizen Kane smash records? did Goodfellas? like cmon B.
Do you recognize great art or are you more concerned with what your maybe-basic friends are bumping?
bigbadbossup2012
Biggest baddest boss
S.W.V. IT'S ABOUT TIME October 27, 1992 February 23, 1996 RCA Standard 3.00x MULTI PLATINUM ALBUM GROUPYour friends are not the entire world.
SWV sampled MJ and barely went Gold. and that song was huge. And they're an RnB group, which if you know at that time, was more marketable than rap.
So yeah....you were expecting a hood rapper to go platinum off an MJ sample?
The rest of your post is rambling and all over the place.
Fact of the matter is this: Illmatic is an incredible album. And people started realizing that organically and slowly.
It happens often with great art. Great art doesn't come out and smash records. It simply grows in stature as the years go by.
Did Citizen Kane smash records? did Goodfellas? like cmon B.
Do you recognize great art or are you more concerned with what your maybe-basic friends are bumping?
S.W.V. IT'S ABOUT TIME October 27, 1992 September 01, 1993 RCA Standard 2.00x MULTI PLATINUM ALBUM GROUP
Right here HUMAN NATURE RMX was on this album my friend. Get your brakes tweeked debating with og's pleighboi
"Weak" is the track that moved units. Look it up.
Human Nature was big too, but nowhere near as big as Weak. and Human Nature went gold. So your point about "sampling MJ" = crossover success is shoddy at best.
Besides, good job ignoring the rest of my post. Now we're debating how big SWV were as opposed to the core of the argument, which is Illmatic being a special album or not.