If Bernard Hopkins beats Kovalev and Stevenson, he's higher on the ATG list than both Pac and Floyd

[LauderdaleBoss]

but you know I'm right though. It's similar to Floyd. Most dudes either hate dude with a passion or love him to death. It's just that Hopkins doesn't have as many overall fans as Floyd.

I'll say this though. Neither Pac or Floyd has beaten anyone that was as dangerous as a prime Tito. That reason alone is why I rate Hopkins slightly higher than Pac and Floyd. It's like they both needed a victory over a prime version of each other in order for me to move them ahead of Hops and Roy and for whatever reason that never happened.

 

[H.I.M.]

"At their peaks" sounds like moving goal posts to me That's the problem with the Jones argument nikkas want to put a timetable on everything.

Ol "lets not count the Tarver/Johnson ass whopping" ass nikkas

Ol "lets not count Roy getting stretched by bums in the ECW arena" ass nikkas


Boxing careers aren't sprints they're marathons and the rabbit moves fast but it came in last after the turtle.

Nobody rates Jones > Hopkins JUST because he was better at his peak... it's because he's the more achieved boxer, who has beat a better selection of opponents in more weight classes. He just has the better overall resume. Simple as that.

Hopkins may not have losses as bad as Jones does... But he also doesn't have wins that are as great as Jones. There's nobody on his resume as good as Prime Toney or Prime Hopkins for that matter. I'm not even sure if Hopkins has beat an equal # of world rated contenders, future/former world champs as Jones. Last i checked, Mayweather & Pacquiao were the only fighters in the past 30 years or so to beat an equal or greater # of world rated contenders as Roy. B-Hop might've caught up though.

And do the losses bring Jones down a notch? Sure. I mean people were talking about him as a top 10-15 ATG post-Ruiz/pre-Tarver... there are some that had him #1 all-time as of mid-2003. But there are plenty others that have as bad or worse losses as Jones at the end of their careers and are still rated high historically... Ezzard Charles for instance.

As of now I don't rate Hopkins higher than Roy Jones Jr on the ATG list and he's about equal if not slightly higher than Manny and Floyd.

If Hops were to beat Stevenson and Kovalev decisively, than he pretty much clearly jumps ahead of Jones, Pac, and Floyd to me.

What Hopkins is doing is impressive at this age, but I can't sit here and act like Cloud, Shumenov, and Pascal were any better than a Ruiz win at heavyweight.

Hopkins is challenging himself more now in the twilight of his career than he did in his prime. It''s like nikkas only wanna focus on these recent victories and not look at the bums he was beating up on USA's Tuesday Night Fights and HBO back in the day. If someone were to say Roy and Hops are equal now I wouldn't even argue it since it's close enough and the gap has been closed a lil, but to act like Hopkins done Vince Cartered this nikka and jumped over him tremendously is crazy.

It's hard to even debate Hopkins objectively since you mostly come across die hard haters of the man who give no respect to his accomplishments or guys who are super stans who worship everything he does and look at him as doing no wrongs. I fall somewhere in between that spectrum. shyt's all opinions anyways.

And this is still the consensus opinion amongst most boxing historians, writers & hardcores...

This list was put together by a boxing writer/historian and former RING panelist over the course of several months with the assistance and input of 100's of hardcore boxing fans & journalists.

01 - Sam Langford
02 - Harry Greb
03 - Sugar Ray Robinson
04 - Henry Armstrong
05 - Ezzard Charles
06 - Bob Fitzsimmons
07 - Muhammad Ali
08 - Joe Gans
09 - Joe Louis
10 - Roberto Duran.
11 - Benny Leonard
12 - Mickey Walker
13 - Willie Pep
14 - Barney Ross
15 - Archie Moore
16 - Ray Leonard
17 - George Dixon
18 - Terry McGovern
19 - Packey McFarland
20 - Pernell Whitaker
21 - Tony Canzoneri
22 - Jimmy McLarnin
23 - Sandy Saddler
24 - Stanley Ketchel
25 - Charley Burley
26 - Holman Williams
27 - Billy Conn
28 - Gene Tunney
29 - Roy Jones
30 - Joe Walcott
31 - Carlos Monzon
32 - Jimmy Wilde
33 - Eder Jofre
34 - Marvin Hagler
35 - Julio Cesar Chavez
36 - Tommy Gibbons
37 - Kid Gavilan
38 - Jack Britton
39 - Emile Griffith
40 - Jose Napoles
41 - Alexis Arguello
42 - Michael Spinks
43 - Tommy Loughran
44 - Thomas Hearns
45 - Jimmy Bivins
46 - Ike Williams
47 - Floyd Mayweather
48 - Manny Pacquiao
49 - Tommy Ryan
50 - Jack Dillon
51 - Bernard Hopkins

The 100 Greatest Fighters of All Time Part One: 100-91 - Boxing.com

 

[H.I.M.]

but you know I'm right though. It's similar to Floyd. Most dudes either hate dude with a passion or love him to death. It's just that Hopkins doesn't have as many overall fans as Floyd.

I'll say this though. Neither Pac or Floyd has beaten anyone that was as dangerous as a prime Tito. That reason alone is why I rate Hopkins slightly higher than Pac and Floyd. It's like they both needed a victory over a prime version of each other in order for me to move them ahead of Hops and Roy and for whatever reason that never happened.

Barerra for Pac.

Floyd

 

[krackdagawd]

Nobody rates Jones > Hopkins JUST because he was better at his peak... it's because he's the more achieved boxer, who has beat a better selection of opponents in more weight classes. He just has the better overall resume. Simple as that.

Would you like to compare the hof fighters on Roy's resume vs. Bernard

They both may have fought a good # of laundromat workers but the difference is BHop isn't getting stretched by any.

If Bhop can't whoop you he will whoop the person who gave you that work

Hopkins may not have losses as bad as Jones does... But he also doesn't have wins that are as great as Jones. There's nobody on his resume as good as Prime Toney or Prime Hopkins for that matter. I'm not even sure if Hopkins has beat an equal # of world rated contenders, future/former world champs as Jones. Last i checked, Mayweather & Pacquiao were the only fighters in the past 30 years or so to beat an equal or greater # of world rated contenders as Roy. B-Hop might've caught up though.

The first Hopkins fight was not prime Hopkins and you know this but that's fine that's Roy's win. Notice how we mention Roy's win but no mention of BHop's win over Roy, like I said you dudes only want to deal within a time period when a career is more than point A to D it's point A-Z and that is why Hopkins will be ranked better all time.

 

[Big Boss]

A great debate

 

[krackdagawd]

A great debate

Wonder why it doesn't have more posts

 

[Big Boss]

Wonder why it doesn't have more posts

Shots fired at stans and casual fans

 

[krackdagawd]

Hopkins never got popped for 8x the allowed testosterone levels


Roy did.

We putting cheaters above boxers who have lived a disciplined life and are reaping the benefits of years of determination and hard work? Not on my watch.

 

[NkrumahWasRight Is Wrong]

This list was put together by a boxing writer/historian and former RING panelist over the course of several months with the assistance and input of 100's of hardcore boxing fans & journalists.

01 - Sam Langford
02 - Harry Greb
03 - Sugar Ray Robinson
04 - Henry Armstrong
05 - Ezzard Charles
06 - Bob Fitzsimmons
07 - Muhammad Ali
08 - Joe Gans
09 - Joe Louis
10 - Roberto Duran.
11 - Benny Leonard
12 - Mickey Walker
13 - Willie Pep
14 - Barney Ross
15 - Archie Moore
16 - Ray Leonard
17 - George Dixon
18 - Terry McGovern
19 - Packey McFarland
20 - Pernell Whitaker
21 - Tony Canzoneri
22 - Jimmy McLarnin
23 - Sandy Saddler
24 - Stanley Ketchel
25 - Charley Burley
26 - Holman Williams
27 - Billy Conn
28 - Gene Tunney
29 - Roy Jones
30 - Joe Walcott
31 - Carlos Monzon
32 - Jimmy Wilde
33 - Eder Jofre
34 - Marvin Hagler
35 - Julio Cesar Chavez
36 - Tommy Gibbons
37 - Kid Gavilan
38 - Jack Britton
39 - Emile Griffith
40 - Jose Napoles
41 - Alexis Arguello
42 - Michael Spinks
43 - Tommy Loughran
44 - Thomas Hearns
45 - Jimmy Bivins
46 - Ike Williams
47 - Floyd Mayweather
48 - Manny Pacquiao
49 - Tommy Ryan
50 - Jack Dillon
51 - Bernard Hopkins

The 100 Greatest Fighters of All Time Part One: 100-91 - Boxing.com

I respect the source but that list is a bit suspect

 

[H.I.M.]

Would you like to compare the hof fighters on Roy's resume vs. Bernard

Sure. Why not?

Prime Middleweight Hopkins (who doesn't have one single crystal clear loss to anybody in the division outside of Roy) > any HOF'er on B-Hop's resume btw

they both may have fought a good # of laundromat workers but the difference is BHop isn't getting stretched by any.

Neither has Roy.

Everybody he got KO'd by was rated near or at the very top of their division... and that includes two Cruiserweights.

Would Hopkins be able to have a competitive fight with a top 3 Cruiserweight such a Lebedev like Roy did?

Has he shown the capability of beating the caliber of boxer such as a prime Toney or a prime Hopkins like Roy?

Could Hopkins ever have a competitive fight with a top 5 rated Heavyweight let alone DOMINATE said Heavweight like Roy has?

Could Hopkins go from Heavyweight, drop 20 lbs and beat the #1 Light Heavyweight in the world as a weight drained corpse like Roy?

The first Hopkins fight was not prime Hopkins and you know this but that's fine that's Roy's win. Notice how we mention Roy's win but no mention of BHop's win over Roy, like I said you dudes only want to deal within a time period when a career is more than point A to D it's point A-Z

I've seen nothing on film from that time period to suggest that B-Hop wasn't at the very least, at or around his prime during the 1st fight. Maybe not at his peak (neither was Roy) but he was definitely in his relative prime. A MUCH superior, versatile and well rounded boxer back then, than the post-2005 version of B-Hop that everybody thinks is sooooo great.

and that is why Hopkins will be ranked better all time.

Well, most boxing writers, historians etc. who have spent their entire lives combing thru the careers of great boxers would strongly disagree with your assertion, sir.

But B-Hop still has time to build on his legacy and close the gap on Roy

 

[H.I.M.]

Hopkins never got popped for 8x the allowed testosterone levels


Roy did.

6x

And that would've been right at the legal limit in Nevada.

 

[H.I.M.]

I respect the source but that list is a bit suspect

Don't agree with the placement of everybody on that list... Chavez, Conn & Sweet Pea are rated too high.

Pac, Morales, Foreman & De La Hoya are rated too low.

Tyson & Trinidad aren't even on the list.

But best believe... the guy who put together the list would put most people's boxing knowledge to shame. I've had several conversations with him over the years. And he didn't do it on his own. He had alot of input and it took several months to put the list together.

What do you find "suspect" about the list though

 

[krackdagawd]

Sure. Why not?

Prime Middleweight Hopkins (who doesn't have one single crystal clear loss to anybody in the division outside of Roy) > any HOF'er on B-Hop's resume btw

Hopkins was only in his prime when Roy beat him huh, dealing with timetables again.

Neither has Roy.

See my quote below this one

Would Hopkins be able to have a competitive fight with a top 3 Cruiserweight such a Lebedev like Roy did?

Competitive fight?

Top 3 in a trash division?

He whooped Roy's ass and Roy couldn't even get a rematch because he was caught cheating, AGAIN.

Has he shown the capability of beating the caliber of boxer such as a prime Toney or a prime Hopkins like Roy?

Could Hopkins beat a James Toney who had to get an IV because he was so dehydrated from making weight? YES.

Could Hopkins ever have a competitive fight with a top 5 rated Heavyweight let alone DOMINATE said Heavweight like Roy has?

Maybe if he used roids to get to heavy like Roy did he would.

Could Hopkins go from Heavyweight, drop 20 lbs and beat the #1 Light Heavyweight in the world as a weight drained corpse like Roy?

Tarver whooped that ass. and cemented the deal in the rematch. The same Tarver who got his soul taken by BHop.

I've seen nothing on film from that time period to suggest that B-Hop wasn't at the very least, at or around his prime during the 1st fight. Maybe not at his peak (neither was Roy) but he was definitely in his relative prime. A MUCH superior, versatile and well rounded boxer back then, than the post-2005 version of B-Hop that everybody thinks is sooooo great.

So you are admitting Hopkins wasn't at his "peak" but he was at or near his prime? Do you know what peak means friend?

Well, most boxing writers, historians etc. who have spent their entire lives combing thru the careers of great boxers would strongly disagree with your assertion, sir.

But B-Hop still has time to build on his legacy and close the gap on Roy

We already have articles popping up saying he could greater than Floyd in this era and we've already had this conversation a few times in the boxing thread. It's not that far of a stretch breh.

Hopkins career ain't over yet friend, unfortunately for you neither is Roy's

 

[krackdagawd]

6x

And that would've been right at the legal limit in Nevada.

Oh you are one of those who thinks this type of stuff is cool, say no more.

 

[patscorpio]

Don't agree with the placement of everybody on that list... Chavez, Conn & Sweet Pea are rated too high.

Pac, Morales, Foreman & De La Hoya are rated too low.

Tyson & Trinidad aren't even on the list.

But best believe... the guy who put together the list would put most people's boxing knowledge to shame. I've had several conversations with him over the years. And he didn't do it on his own. He had alot of input and it took several months to put the list together.

What do you find "suspect" about the list though

hey hey breh.....sweet pea is fine where he is on that list...you have a valid complaint about everything else