I need a good reason why Iran shouldn't have nukes?

[Turenne]

However, military intervention was justified.

'Justified'? By who's laws? The UN doesn't have the moral authority to 'justify' anything because it does not have the power to back up such authority - there is no moral authority in international relations. at an invasion being 'justified' or justifiable.

 

[daze23]

I can't believe you hold this position after being manipulated by your government into supporting a needless war. Wow.

so should I just 100% distrust the government from now on?

I don't understand the logic of treating the 'government' like an unchanging entity. people can't even understand that the 'government' that dropped nukes on Japan isn't the same 'government' we have now

I understand the concept of learning from your mistakes, but doesn't that concept apply to the 'government' as well?

honestly it all seems like an appeal to some grand conspiracy that the Illuminati (or whatever) have some 1000 year agenda they're maintaining

also a lot of it does seem like it's being built around various talking points and naratives that politicians and the media have used over the years. but I know most people here don't like to admit the slight chance that they've been manipulated in any way

that debate with Hitchens was interesting. I'm not sure I agree with everything Hitch said, nor am I really privy to as much info as him. but goddamn his opponent was a blow-hard that pretty much committed every logical fallacy I know of... and the crowd loved it. at least Hitch answered the questions right:

"what about when Colin Powell said blah blah blah"

"fukk a Colin Powell... "

 

[Robbie3000]

so should I just 100% distrust the government from now on?

I don't understand the logic of treating the 'government' like an unchanging entity. people can't even understand the the 'government' that dropped nukes on Japan isn't the same 'government' we have now

I understand the concept of learning from your mistakes, but doesn't that concept apply to the 'government' as well?

honestly it all seems like an appeal to some grand conspiracy that the Illuminati (or whatever) have some 1000 year agenda they're maintaining

also a lot of it does seem like it's being built around various talking points and naratives that politicians and the media have used over the years. but I know most people here don't like to admit the slight chance that they've been manipulated in any way

that debate with Hitchens was interesting. I'm not sure I agree with everything Hitch said, nor am I really privy to as much info as him. but goddamn his opponent was a blow-hard that pretty much committed every logical fallacy I know of... and the crowd loved it. at least Hitch answered the questions right:

"what about when Colin Powell said blah blah blah"

"fukk a Colin Powell... "

I'm don't believe in conspiracies. But you can expect Romney's foreign policy to be indistinguishable to that of George Bush because all of his foreign policy advisors are former Bush Administration officials. It's the same cast of characters led by John Bolton and other Neo-Con veterans from the Bush administration.

 

[Gallo]

'Justified'? By who's laws? The UN doesn't have the moral authority to 'justify' anything because it does not have the power to back up such authority - there is no moral authority in international relations. at an invasion being 'justified' or justifiable.

That's true. I should rather say personally I found military intervention justifiable on the grounds I posted. But if you want to use UN rules Genocide is a war crime and those same rules and International law also no longer viewed Iraq as sovereign. The condition for staying in power after the first gulf war was that Saddam had to submit to a bunch of international agreements and sanctions. He did not comply with those agreements. So much so that Bill Clinton signed a unamimously passed treaty from the Congress which said - "Official policy of the United States will be the removal of the Saddam H regime...we will help push Iraq into a post-saddam era"

 

[daze23]

I'm don't believe in conspiracies. But you can expect Romney's foreign policy to be indistinguishable to that of George Bush because all of his foreign policy advisors are former Bush Administration officials. It's the same cast of characters led by John Bolton and other Neo-Con veterans from the Bush administration.

see I'm very picky about words. "indistinguishable" to me means just that. I also don't like being told what I "can expect"

 

[Robbie3000]

see I'm very picky about words. "indistinguishable" to me means just that. I also don't like being told what I "can expect"

Settle down. You don't need a crystal ball to look at someone's ideology and predict what they are likely to do. If your main foreign policy advisor is Josh Bolton and you have a bunch of neo-cons on you foreign policy team, then it is not unreasonable to expect you to operate from a certain framework.

 

[daze23]

Settle down. You don't need a crystal ball to look at someone's ideology and predict what they are likely to do. If your main foreign policy advisor is Josh Bolton and you have a bunch of neo-cons on you foreign policy team, then it is not unreasonable to expect you to operate from a certain framework.

I don't agree. that just assumes that all those people learned nothing from their unpopular past decisions (the unpopular decisions that has the republican party treating dubya like the b*stard step-child). or that they're unmoved from the agenda of their shadowy Illuminati paymasters, or whatever 'hidden agenda' they have

 

[Robbie3000]

I don't agree. that just assumes that all those people learned nothing from their unpopular past decisions (the unpopular decisions that has the republican party treating dubya like the b*stard step-child). or that they're unmoved from the agenda of their shadowy Illuminati paymasters, or whatever 'hidden agenda' they have

Dude, i think you are being so unnecessarily generous to these a$$holes. Just look at recent statements from guys like John Bolton and dikk Cheney. Now tell me if they have learned their lessons. None of these guys have ever expressed contrition or regret about the mistakes made during the lead up to the Iraq war. They actually double down and try to justify their decisions.

Breh, what in their behavior leads you to think they have learned from the past?

 

[Mr. Somebody]

Because some other demons said so.

 

[Mr. Somebody]

'Justified'? By who's laws? The UN doesn't have the moral authority to 'justify' anything because it does not have the power to back up such authority - there is no moral authority in international relations. at an invasion being 'justified' or justifiable.

Instristically its ok.

 

[daze23]

Breh, what in their behavior leads you to think they have learned from the past?

I don't know how I could make such an assessment. people, and politicians in particular, are shrouded in all sorts of intentional and unintentional deception

I think it should be obvious by now the type of argument I'm making. if you don't agree with it, fine, but I hope you at least understand it

 

[88m3]

Lot of dim light bulbs in here I don't know why you try daze