I Love Batman But There Is One Major Issue With It

[Prince.Skeletor]

Saying Joker is just a clown is like saying Batman is just a dude playing dress up in a bat costume.

A great villain doesn’t necessarily mean “Oh, he’s just as strong as the hero”, it’s someone who can attack the hero where their weakest and most vulnerable.

Batman believes life is sacred and is fueled by the powerlessness he felt watching his parents die as a child. Joker is the perfect villain because he tests Batman’s willpower and conviction, not because he can punch hard.

This is a great villain.

Perhaps I can see where the issue is now.
So... to me Batman is the guy that fought with Lady Shiva, fought Superman and Darkseid, knows over 120 fighting styles, had the guts to go into darkseid's planet while no having powers, has perfected both his mental and physical shape and is the world's greatest detective. He is great and even powerful in that manner.

But.... when he fights the joker he is vulnerable in those stories.
It's like when he fights the joker it's a different batman, not the same as I described above.
So he's maybe his match when he's that batman.

I dunno, maybe thats it

 

[Marc Spector]

Perhaps I can see where the issue is now.
So... to me Batman is the guy that fought with Lady Shiva, fought Superman and Darkseid, knows over 120 fighting styles, had the guts to go into darkseid's planet while no having powers, has perfected both his mental and physical shape and is the world's greatest detective. He is great and even powerful in that manner.

But.... when he fights the joker he is vulnerable in those stories.
It's like when he fights the joker it's a different batman, not the same as I described above.
So he's maybe his match when he's that batman.

I dunno, maybe thats it

Ah. You're asking a version of the old "Why doesnt the League just help Batman clean up Gotham?" trope.

This has always been a fundamental issue with Batman.

Because he's DC biggest property and can be featured in so many styles/sub-genres, there is inevitable inconsistency and sliding power scale in his skill set/power level.

In a given month, Batman can be featured in a high science/Cosmic oriented story with the JLA, a quiet, low level mind thriller written by Tom King, or be a jet setting, gadget using, Martial Artist Super Spy type of character stopping a terrorist attack by Ra's Al Ghul ala Brosnan era Bond.

In a shared universe, Its sometimes hard to reconcile all these different depictions of Batman, but thats also his appeal. Very few characters have that level of versatility.

 

[Prince.Skeletor]

Ah. You're asking a version of the old "Why doesnt the League just help Batman clean up Gotham?" trope.

This has always been a fundamental issue with Batman.

Because he's DC biggest property and can be featured in so many styles/sub-genres, there is inevitable inconsistency and sliding power scale in his skill set/power level.

In a given month, Batman can be featured in a high science/Cosmic oriented story with the JLA, a quiet, low level mind thriller written by Tom King, or be a jet setting, gadget using, Martial Artist Super Spy type of character stopping a terrorist attack by Ra's Al Ghul ala Brosnan era Bond.

In a shared universe, Its sometimes hard to reconcile all these different depictions of Batman, but thats also his appeal. Very few characters have that level of versatility.

I can agree with all of this

 

[Draje]

Perhaps I can see where the issue is now.
So... to me Batman is the guy that fought with Lady Shiva, fought Superman and Darkseid, knows over 120 fighting styles, had the guts to go into darkseid's planet while no having powers, has perfected both his mental and physical shape and is the world's greatest detective. He is great and even powerful in that manner.

But.... when he fights the joker he is vulnerable in those stories.
It's like when he fights the joker it's a different batman, not the same as I described above.
So he's maybe his match when he's that batman.

I dunno, maybe thats it

...and? The Joker is dangerous because he forces Batman to fight on his terms and attacks him where he’s weak.

Lady Shiva is a martial artist which is a far less complicated fight than a guy like the Joker who will strap a bomb to a school bus and make the encounter far more complicated than a simple fist fight.

It’s absolutely the same Batman. The difference is that the Joker puts Batman into situations where beating him up doesn’t solve the problem he’s put forth. It doesn’t matter how many fighting styles you know, how great you train your body, and how good of a detective you are when the Joker will kidnap the person you love the most, inject them with poison, and tell you the only way to get the antidote is to play his game.

You vastly underestimate how dangerous a guy like the Joker is and you vastly underestimate his intelligence. There’s a reason why one of the most dangerous beings in all of DC is a version of Batman that has the Joker’s mindset.

Hell, I’d call the Batman who Laughs the scariest version of the Joker

 

[Mr. Negative]

@BrownSkin Intellect I think your actual problem with Batman's villains is you couldn't see them lasting being someone else's villains, but batman is constantly shown as this perfect non-killing machine... so they shouldn't be a problem for him.

I agree.


but it takes a hell of a writer to actually do his villains justice, and not make everyone look like dumb pieces of shyt just to make these villains work.


I'm not a fan of The Joker for this reason. But Tom King wrote a HELL of a Joker. AND a Riddler. (and a Kite-Man). Actually, Tom King has been better at writing the villains than he has been at writing the batfamily.

Joker's last appearance in JLA is how Joker should be written. A maniacal genius who's wily enough to wreck Lex Luther's plans because he can if he wanted to. not a clown that poisons kids or dumps laughing toxin on fish and gasp batman cant find him cause he's hiding in the sewers.

Cause of how Batman is seen as so godly, this is what you expect to see

 

[Kaydigi]

Bane sonned him into oblivion in Dark Knight Rises..... and The Clock King is that dude.

 

[The Prince of All Saiyans]

 

[Carl Tethers]

This is a terrible thread. One of the worst.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

This shyt isn't even Worth It.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

@Bruce Wayne

@Bruce_Wayne

...

 

[Still FloW]

Troll thread, everyone neg this fakkit

 

[Prince.Skeletor]

@BrownSkin Intellect I think your actual problem with Batman's villains is you couldn't see them lasting being someone else's villains, but batman is constantly shown as this perfect non-killing machine... so they shouldn't be a problem for him.

I agree.


but it takes a hell of a writer to actually do his villains justice, and not make everyone look like dumb pieces of shyt just to make these villains work.


I'm not a fan of The Joker for this reason. But Tom King wrote a HELL of a Joker. AND a Riddler. (and a Kite-Man). Actually, Tom King has been better at writing the villains than he has been at writing the batfamily.

Joker's last appearance in JLA is how Joker should be written. A maniacal genius who's wily enough to wreck Lex Luther's plans because he can if he wanted to. not a clown that poisons kids or dumps laughing toxin on fish and gasp batman cant find him cause he's hiding in the sewers.

Cause of how Batman is seen as so godly, this is what you expect to see

I think this sums it up pretty well, exactly what Batman said.
He should let Robin take on Joker going forward.

Joker should no longer be Batman's villain, he should be Robin's!

 

[Emoryal]

I think this sums it up pretty well, exactly what Batman said.
He should let Robin take on Joker going forward.

Joker should no longer be Batman's villain, he should be Robin's!

Ask Jason Todd about how that went.

 

[NotAnFBIagent]

Don't ever disrespect the Joker like that again hoe nikka

 

[psiko]

It's not about the fist fight. Batman can toss nearly every human in DC around like a doll. Joker,Ras Al Ghoul, Bane and Hush all give him so much trouble because of their plans. Joker especially because his shyt is a mix of cunning and just crazy bullshyt. Joker can roll from wanting to tell jokes and commit minor crimes to using babies as body shields to fooling gods into giving him their power. His unpredictability makes him a great counter to a detective who follows logic.