How the Quran was formed. (Historical Breakdown)

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And we are BACK with another Jay Smith video.
THE MOST hated man in these threads

But in all seriousness, this video isn’t him talking and it is a GOOD quick breakdown of an alternative THEORY of how the early Quran formed

Posting in this sub forum so mods please don’t delete.

It’s about searching for knowledge. Not everyone will understand this topic or even care to respond. But for those FEW interested @MMS @Koichos here we go.

First, let me breakdown what’s in the video and MY understanding of what it says very simply.

This is my personal perspective.

Since I’ve watched a few videos on this topic which AGREE with the video above and go deeper into more detail on the Quran origins, I’ll summarize for those who might be lost

Or have a short attention span

BEFORE “MUSLIM” WAS A WORD OR ISLAM WAS A RELIGION, THE QURAN DIDNT EXIST

This is just historical fact. Don’t NEG me gheez

And the WRITTEN Quranic Arabic script we have today didn’t exist either but that’s another story

FAST FORWARD to…..

AROUND THE 7th century (and maybe even earlier) there existed a sect of messianic & apocalyptic Jewish people. (Could they be Arab Sadducees?)

They were opportunistic and I guess saw an opportunity with the growing number of “Arab” or middle eastern Jews/christians

They perhaps wanted to start their own “last days” movement or maybe they just saw the “writing on the wall” and thought the time is right to unite.

Maybe they heard teachings of Muhammad or subscribed to the whole Ishmaelite/Hagarite ideology/ arab imperialist separatist movement

Regardless, at some point they got the idea to bring upon the “apocalypse” as prophesied in the New Testament

These Christian Jews wanted to bring upon the “end of days” and Jesus return. (Mind you Jesus was supposed to be back going on a few hundred years)

They had an idea to USE Arabs (who I guess were already coming into power and conquering empires) and their military power to regain Jerusalem/the Temple Mount FOR THEM so they could rebuild the temple, begin sacrifices and jumpstart the Jewish religion again.

All in hopes to bring back Jesus and the Jewish kingdom and rule the world etc…..

BUT first they had to win over Arab support and CONVERT them to Judaism/Christianity

Maybe this was already going on for decades but nonetheless the idea was to be MISSIONARIES to the Arabs

So they took the KITAB (Torah and Gospel or injeel) and made a lectionary (RECITATION) from it in Syriac Aramaic/ARABIC which included all the major Old Testament stories and teaching of Jesus for the purpose of TEACHING the ARABS.

^ THIS is the ARABIC Quran (RECITATION) which wasn’t WRITTEN yet (Arabs mostly werent even literate) but instead it was preached/performed or just told for MEMORIZING and RECITING.

Keep in mind the definition of Quran is:

word qurʾān, which occurs already within the Islamic scripture itself (e.g., 9:111 and 75:17–18), is derived from the verb qaraʾa—“to read,” “to recite”

The only thing WRITTEN at this time was the KITAB (Torah/Gospels) but it wasn’t in ARABIC from my understanding Arabic script didn’t exist formally yet.

And like I said most Arabs lacked education

But the JEWS & CHRISTIANS had their religious books in their LANGUAGES at the time which ARAB warriors and nomads couldn’t understand.

PART 2 NEXT

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

great source material

 

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PART 2

Mind you there did exist middle eastern “ARAB” (for lack of a better word) people who followed Judaism and Christianity among other religions

But at the time they had no scriptures in ARABIC so I guess this was a big deal because

Not only could they not read Hebrew Greek etc…

But they weren’t of the same Community, or locations/regions where mainstream Christianity or Judaism was

the Arabs probably felt left out

But when this Jewish sect NEEDED THEM for power or convenience, maybe it solidified them or made them feel included and accepted……..

ANYWHO,

Next came the notes and instructions (a manual of sorts) for the Jewish Christian preachers who spoke ARABIC and translated to Arabic the lessons and arguments for JESUS and Judaism

Kinda like instructions and talking points for street preaching and evangelism (although I’m not 100% sure how to describe this) or some
type of polemics against other religions kind of how HEBREW ISRAELITES are out on every street corner these days but i dunno

^ this was called the MUSHAF

this was WRITTEN IN ARABIC in my understanding of the video. Not to be confused with the actual ARABIC QURAN which was NOT written but performative and more like a song or poetry or skit, etc…. That was memorized and I assume could be used for WORSHIP.

Now fast forward to when the Jewish apocalypse driven leaders “end times” master plan failed they didn’t know what to do

Because JESUS didn’t return. The world didn’t end. Jews had no KING. But Israel and the Temple Mount was liberated.

It was an embarrassing L for the Jewish sect but still a WIN for Arab Christian/jewish converts (were they really ALL believers to begin with) who had POWER and a new identity in finally being unified and spreading their language/Culture/beliefs

More importantly they had a new location and object of significance to their religion and beliefs (it was a proto Kabba) and early Muslims actually used to pray towards JERUSALEM before the direction was changed.

Even though the new Arab believers were technically of the same faith more or less and even on the same TEAM as the Jews in Jerusalem, I don’t think this lasted

it’s my interpretation that the mainstream Jews and Christians didn’t accept them into their communities/churches after this because theological differences (believing Jesus was God) and maybe Jews were racist against “Arabs” or gentiles

Or maybe the Arabs never wanted to be Jews/Christians and turned tables on them when they had the upper hand….. I dunno just speculating

Maybe the the Arabs were just in it for power and war booty…. Who knows

Maybe it was DIVINE INTERVENTION

BUT after the messianic Jews took their books (KITAB) and moved on MAYBE Arabs thought they were the NEW chosen people.

Maybe their leader was the new ARAB messiah for the “time of the Arabs”?

Or Arabs realized they were being used because of their Power.

So they took control of their religion And YEARS down the line (8th century) Arabs continue gaining power and attributing it to the God of Abraham or ALLAH!

Meanwhile, the old KITAB and Arabic Quran are lost in history minus some fragments and vague rock engravings

They ONLY have the religious NOTES (written proto Quran) and the ORAL TRADITIONS of the ARABIC QURAN (recitation) in their culture which LINK BACK to the elusive KITAB (Torah and Injeel) to remind them of the stories which Jews and Christian PHYSICALLY have in their possession and traditions going back hundreds/thousands of years

^ this is what gives the upcoming ISLAMIC Quran legitimacy and its existence they must refer back to seeing how logically they’re just a continuation of Judaism and Christianity.

But historically when Arab kingdoms and expansion conquer Jewish and Christians it became the time of the ARABS who are now taking over the region, establishing their new religion and finding their OWN identity in this religion

AND all the MUSLIMS need is their own BOOK and PROPHET from GOD to cement it all

The Arabic Quran (Mustaf) becomes the WRITTEN Islamic (remixed) version which now includes bits and pieces of what used to be from the Jewish/Christian teachings, passed down tales/traditions and memorized recitations

Not to mention whatever else was added in to fill in the GAPS from all the Influences they soaked up (paganism, Gnosticism, mysticism, Zoroastrianism, Maniceanism, etc….) from the beliefs of the people they conquered

Ultimately, the original Jewish and Christian scriptures (KITAB) & corresponding Arabic Quran (recitations) that didn’t agree with the NEW ISLAMIC Quran became “corrupted”

Overtime A new BOOK was declared sent from God by revelation to MUHAMMAD (created by Abassids maybe?) with no proof.

This became the ISLAMIC QURAN in ARABIC SCRIPT which was compiled and “preserved” by ALLAH unlike the previous “books”

And as they say the rest is history

 

[InGodWeTrust]

Huh?

 

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great source material

Watch

 

[ADevilYouKhow]

great source material

Yeah there’s certainly a lot of interesting coincidences…

 

[DoubleClutch]

Yeah there’s certainly a lot of interesting coincidences…

Did you watch the video. Trust me it’s only the tip of the iceberg regarding “coincidences”.

 

[DoubleClutch]

Huh?

Full disclosure this topic/info isn’t for everyone

I’ve been studying Islam for a while and already have a foundation of Judaism/Christianity.

If this thread goes over your head i can understand.

3 years ago I would’ve had the same reaction.

 

[ℒℴѵℯJay ELECTUA]

Full disclosure this topic/info isn’t for everyone

I’ve been studying Islam for a while and already have a foundation of Judaism/Christianity.

If this thread goes over your head i can understand.

3 years ago I would’ve had the same reaction.

Can you read, speak & understand Arabic?

 

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Can you read, speak & understand Arabic?

Can @MMS read, speak & understanding ancient Egyptian?

 

[MMS]

Can @MMS read, speak & understanding ancient Egyptian?

what does his question have to do with me?

i understand enough to contemplate it. By the biblical narrative the Arabs ARE Egyptians (see Hagar an Egyptian slave/princess) which makes all Ishmaelites part Egyptian part Canaanite (as Israel didn't get established until the 3rd generation removed from Abraham)

so in truth the Arabic language has Egyptian ideas already embedded in it. I mentioned Al-Khidr in the other thread as the "Pharaoh of Egypt" on purpose.

Khidr - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The color green is associated with creation and all of the old deities of egypt are also colored green for one reason or another. It is also the symbolic "serpent" found on Pharaohs crown (Uraeus)

Wadjet - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

So if you consider all of these things, God is stating to Abraham: Egypt is the handmaiden of Sarah so her hand is what causes Ishmaels hand to be against everyone

So with that in mind, Arabic is like a shadow of Egyptian as strange as that sounds. Does that make Arabic a master of Egypt or Egypt a master over Arabs?

Aladdin's Genie Was Originally Green

Jafar voice actor Jonathan Freeman reveals what might have been.

screenrant.com

 

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what does his question have to do with me?

i understand enough to contemplate it. By the biblical narrative the Arabs ARE Egyptians (see Hagar an Egyptian slave/princess) which makes all Ishmaelites part Egyptian part Canaanite (as Israel didn't get established until the 3rd generation removed from Abraham)

so in truth the Arabic language has Egyptian ideas already embedded in it. I mentioned Al-Khidr in the other thread as the "Pharaoh of Egypt" on purpose.

Khidr - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The color green is associated with creation and all of the old deities of egypt are also colored green for one reason or another. It is also the symbolic "serpent" found on Pharaohs crown (Uraeus)

Wadjet - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

So if you consider all of these things, God is stating to Abraham: Egypt is the handmaiden of Sarah so her hand is what causes Ishmaels hand to be against everyone

So with that in mind, Arabic is like a shadow of Egyptian as strange as that sounds. Does that make Arabic a master of Egypt or Egypt a master over Arabs?

Aladdin's Genie Was Originally Green

Jafar voice actor Jonathan Freeman reveals what might have been.

screenrant.com

I just wanted to see if you’d take the bait

But regarding Egypt and Arabs and Islam…… God works in mysterious ways

Blacks in Egypt became Christian before Arabs invaded and turned it Muslim of course


But that’s besides the point when it comes to the HISTORICAL origins of the QURAN.

 

[MMS]

I just wanted to see if you’d take the bait

But regarding Egypt and Arabs and Islam…… God works in mysterious ways

Blacks in Egypt became Christian before Arabs invaded and turned it Muslim of course


But that’s besides the point when it comes to the HISTORICAL origins of the QURAN.

so the question to christians becomes:

If you are like Abraham, do you sacrifice your son (which one) and if you dont how do you send him to Arabia

Genesis 21:9 Hebrew Text Analysis

 

[DoubleClutch]

so the question to christians becomes:

If you are like Abraham, do you sacrifice your son (which one) and if you dont how do you send him to Arabia

Genesis 21:9 Hebrew Text Analysis

Why would “which one” even be a question? Defeats the purpose of Gods plan.

You just expose one of the many paradoxes of Islam

But let’s not derail this thread with religion talk.



Any thoughts on the video above?

 

[MMS]

Why would “which one” even be a question? Defeats the purpose of Gods plan.

You just expose one of the many paradoxes of Islam

But let’s not derail this thread with religion talk.



Any thoughts on the video above?

You say "the purpose of God's plan"

but the narrative of Abraham is to test him by asking him to sacrifice his son, which he agrees to do up until actually killing him when his hand stayed by the Angel of the LORD.

So what is God's plan there? Remember The angel also was the one who told Hagar she would conceive and bear Ishmael.

And according to Islam: Allah is the most compassionate, the most merciful.

Basmala - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

And if Abraham(Ibrahim) is a prophet of both religions, and God speaks to Abraham, What he does is important (and to who). Especially if the covenant is with Abraham through his seed (not Isaac, and Jacob etc etc). This means that the circumcision is cutting off something from the manchild that isnt completely known to Gentiles but is to Jews (something that attempts completely cover your member that grows out of your member)

Surah Ali 'Imran - 67 - Quran.com

Abraham was neither a Jew nor a Christian; he submitted in all uprightness and was not a polytheist.

quran.com