How is QBR calculated?

[FabTrey]

Leagues best QB or he had the best year?

4k yards. 26tds 5ints 8 yards per attempt. 68%. 1 fumble all year.

Looks pretty accurate to me. Nobody in the league threw for over 4k yards with less than 5 picks.

The only person who comes close is Drew Brees and he was at 103.9 compared to Alex's 104.7

Rating works very well....Washington gave him 94m for a reason

brady 2 years ago had 3600 yards 28tds 2ints in 12 games


but yeah QBR is trash. i understand what they are trying to do, but it ain't working especially on a game by game basis.

 

[obarth]

I mean....you could just watch the games and make your own evaluations instead of relying on a number you dont really understand...but I've been drinking, so ignore me

 

[Professor Emeritus]

Both have flaws but espn qbr is absolute trash. Even in a perfect game ive seen qbs get wack ass ratings.

Literally impossible.

Leagues best QB or he had the best year?

4k yards. 26tds 5ints 8 yards per attempt. 68%. 1 fumble all year.

Looks pretty accurate to me. Nobody in the league threw for over 4k yards with less than 5 picks.

All you're saying is, "Their traditional numbers look great so they must be great!!!"

If you like the traditional numbers, why even use a rating? Just admit you're a stat geek and list their stats. Nothing else matters but pure numbers, right?

HOW CAN YOU TELL ME JARED GOFF HAD A BAD GAME

I DON'T GIVE A fukk ABOUT NOT DAMN YAC

GIVE ME RATING!!! fukk A QBR

@Rhakim

Again, all you look at is numbers, you didn't post any context at all.

1st Drive: Rams get the ball on the Houston 12. Goff throws an incomplete pass on 1st down and a 3-yard completion on 3rd-and-9. TERRIBLE FG DRIVE.

2nd Drive: 3-and-out, Goff throws two incomplete passes. TERRIBLE PUNT DRIVE.

3rd Drive: 3-and-out, Goff is sacked on 1st down, throws a 6-yard pass on 2nd-and-21, then throws a 2 yard pass on 3rd-and 15. TERRIBLE PUNT DRIVE.

4th Drive: 62 plays in 9 plays, but really just two: Gurley breaks off a 15 yard run and takes a short dumpoff pass 43 yards. On 2nd-and-17 from the Houston 20, Goff scrambles for just 6 yards and then throws an incomplete pass on 3rd down. Gurley put him in position, and he failed to capitalize. BAD FG DRIVE.

5th Drive: 14 yards in 6 plays. Goff completes a 2-yard pass on 3rd-and-1, but then has a false start, two incomplete passes, and an 8-yard completion on 3rd-and-15. TERRIBLE PUNT DRIVE.

To this point in the game, Goff is 6-12 for 60 yards. But in reality he has played awful. Goff has made ONE good play all game, and that was a little dumpoff to the rb where Gurley did all the work. All of Goff's other completions were useless because they were short dumpoffs on 3rd-and-long when he needed more yards. He's been put in the red zone twice and didn't do anything with it either time. After 5 drives, Goff is having a horrific game. But traditional stats make his game look okay.

6th Drive: 43 yards in 10 plays. This is Goff's first decent drive, but when he gets in Houston territory he throws two incompletions followed by a 7-yard pass on 3rd-and-10. MEDIOCRE FG DRIVE.

That was the first half. The Rams are winning 9-7, but one field goal was all defense and the other was all Gurley. Goff has had a horrible game to this point.

7th Drive: 12 yards in 4 plays. Goff gets a 1st down after another false start, but then gets an intentional grounding, throws for just 2 yards on 2nd-and-20, and then incomplete on 3rd down. TERRIBLE PUNT DRIVE.

Note that traditional stats don't tell you that Goff's offense has two false starts and an intentional grounding penalty at this point, or that he's failed on 3/4 of his passing 3rd downs.


8th Drive: 96 yards in 2 plays. 94 yard TD pass to a wide open Robert Woods. It's great, but it's ONE pass. GOOD TD DRIVE.

At this point Goff is now 13-23 for 200 yards and a TD. Does that really come close to reflecting how terrible he's played? He has ONE pass that made those stats look good.

9th Drive: 39 yards in 9 plays. Goff goes 4-5 for 35 yards which makes his stats look great, but gets sacked twice which kills the drive. BAD PUNT DRIVE.

10th Drive: 36 yards in 3 plays. A great punt return puts LA in good position, Goff makes two good passes go get the TD. Good job, but again just 2 passes. GOOD TD DRIVE.

11th Drive: 12 yards in 1 play. A Houston fumble puts LA on the 12 yard line, Goff makes the TD pass. Finally capitalizing after all those chances. GOOD TD DRIVE.

12th Drive: 74 yards in 9 plays. Gurley again does most of the work, Goff goes 4-4 for 47 yards which "looks" great, but two of those completions were 4yds on 2nd-and-14 and 7yds on 3rd-and-10, which improves his stats but doesn't help the team. Though with a 30-7 lead the game was basically over already anyway. MEDIOCRE FG DRIVE.

13th Drive: 28 yards in 8 plays. Bunch of running plays to run out the clock.



That is Goff's actual game.

7 terrible drives
2 mediocre drives
3 good drives which were only 4 good passes combined.


By traditional stats that's a great game, because the Ram defense kept setting him up in Houston territory and he eventually capitalized with a few TDs. But most of the completions were useless dumpoff passes on 3rd-and-long, most of the yards were from just a few plays.

QBR says that Goff had a mediocre, slightly below-average game, and QBR would be right. If you throw 37 passes in a game and only 4 of them were meaningfully good, why should it automatically be considered a great game?

 

[Based Lord Zedd]

Leagues best QB or he had the best year?

4k yards. 26tds 5ints 8 yards per attempt. 68%. 1 fumble all year.

Looks pretty accurate to me. Nobody in the league threw for over 4k yards with less than 5 picks.

The only person who comes close is Drew Brees and he was at 103.9 compared to Alex's 104.7

Rating works very well....Washington gave him 94m for a reason

Fumbles have nothing to do with quarterback rating.
The Chiefs also dumped him last year for a reason. Seems a bit silly to use his contract.
The Vikings also gave a bigger deal to a QB who left the Redskins and had a worse QB rating.

Smith wasn't the leagues best QB last year nor did he have the best year. We could play this same game and suggest that Nick Foles had a better year than Peyton in 2013.

 

[Darealtwo1]

Literally impossible.




All you're saying is, "Their traditional numbers look great so they must be great!!!"

If you like the traditional numbers, why even use a rating? Just admit you're a stat geek and list their stats. Nothing else matters but pure numbers, right?




Again, all you look at is numbers, you didn't post any context at all.

1st Drive: Rams get the ball on the Houston 12. Goff throws an incomplete pass on 1st down and a 3-yard completion on 3rd-and-9. TERRIBLE FG DRIVE.

2nd Drive: 3-and-out, Goff throws two incomplete passes. TERRIBLE PUNT DRIVE.

3rd Drive: 3-and-out, Goff is sacked on 1st down, throws a 6-yard pass on 2nd-and-21, then throws a 2 yard pass on 3rd-and 15. TERRIBLE PUNT DRIVE.

4th Drive: 62 plays in 9 plays, but really just two: Gurley breaks off a 15 yard run and takes a short dumpoff pass 43 yards. On 2nd-and-17 from the Houston 20, Goff scrambles for just 6 yards and then throws an incomplete pass on 3rd down. Gurley put him in position, and he failed to capitalize. BAD FG DRIVE.

5th Drive: 14 yards in 6 plays. Goff completes a 2-yard pass on 3rd-and-1, but then has a false start, two incomplete passes, and an 8-yard completion on 3rd-and-15. TERRIBLE PUNT DRIVE.

To this point in the game, Goff is 6-12 for 60 yards. But in reality he has played awful. Goff has made ONE good play all game, and that was a little dumpoff to the rb where Gurley did all the work. All of Goff's other completions were useless because they were short dumpoffs on 3rd-and-long when he needed more yards. He's been put in the red zone twice and didn't do anything with it either time. After 5 drives, Goff is having a horrific game. But traditional stats make his game look okay.

6th Drive: 43 yards in 10 plays. This is Goff's first decent drive, but when he gets in Houston territory he throws two incompletions followed by a 7-yard pass on 3rd-and-10. MEDIOCRE FG DRIVE.

That was the first half. The Rams are winning 9-7, but one field goal was all defense and the other was all Gurley. Goff has had a horrible game to this point.

7th Drive: 12 yards in 4 plays. Goff gets a 1st down after another false start, but then gets an intentional grounding, throws for just 2 yards on 2nd-and-20, and then incomplete on 3rd down. TERRIBLE PUNT DRIVE.

Note that traditional stats don't tell you that Goff's offense has two false starts and an intentional grounding penalty at this point, or that he's failed on 3/4 of his passing 3rd downs.


8th Drive: 96 yards in 2 plays. 94 yard TD pass to a wide open Robert Woods. It's great, but it's ONE pass. GOOD TD DRIVE.

At this point Goff is now 13-23 for 200 yards and a TD. Does that really come close to reflecting how terrible he's played? He has ONE pass that made those stats look good.

9th Drive: 39 yards in 9 plays. Goff goes 4-5 for 35 yards which makes his stats look great, but gets sacked twice which kills the drive. BAD PUNT DRIVE.

10th Drive: 36 yards in 3 plays. A great punt return puts LA in good position, Goff makes two good passes go get the TD. Good job, but again just 2 passes. GOOD TD DRIVE.

11th Drive: 12 yards in 1 play. A Houston fumble puts LA on the 12 yard line, Goff makes the TD pass. Finally capitalizing after all those chances. GOOD TD DRIVE.

12th Drive: 74 yards in 9 plays. Gurley again does most of the work, Goff goes 4-4 for 47 yards which "looks" great, but two of those completions were 4yds on 2nd-and-14 and 7yds on 3rd-and-10, which improves his stats but doesn't help the team. Though with a 30-7 lead the game was basically over already anyway. MEDIOCRE FG DRIVE.

13th Drive: 28 yards in 8 plays. Bunch of running plays to run out the clock.



That is Goff's actual game.

7 terrible drives
2 mediocre drives
3 good drives which were only 4 good passes combined.


By traditional stats that's a great game, because the Ram defense kept setting him up in Houston territory and he eventually capitalized with a few TDs. But most of the completions were useless dumpoff passes on 3rd-and-long, most of the yards were from just a few plays.

QBR says that Goff had a mediocre, slightly below-average game, and QBR would be right. If you throw 37 passes in a game and only 4 of them were meaningfully good, why should it automatically be considered a great game?

I ain't reading all that shyt.....QBR is trash. That's all you need to know

 

[Professor Emeritus]

One of the craziest things to me is that people in this day and age are willing to spend their life staying uninformed, use part of their short time on Earth to post their ignorant uninformed opinions on message boards, and then brag about the fact that they're not even gonna try to get informed. Like, why? You think that with you obviously not knowing what you talking about, then bragging about the fact you ain't gonna read anything to learn more, your opinion becomes worth....what exactly? And you spent actual time writing something ignorant, more time bragging about it being ignorant, and then you prolly gonna post something else ignorant in response to this too?

 

[FabTrey]

Literally impossible.




All you're saying is, "Their traditional numbers look great so they must be great!!!"

If you like the traditional numbers, why even use a rating? Just admit you're a stat geek and list their stats. Nothing else matters but pure numbers, right?




Again, all you look at is numbers, you didn't post any context at all.

1st Drive: Rams get the ball on the Houston 12. Goff throws an incomplete pass on 1st down and a 3-yard completion on 3rd-and-9. TERRIBLE FG DRIVE.

2nd Drive: 3-and-out, Goff throws two incomplete passes. TERRIBLE PUNT DRIVE.

3rd Drive: 3-and-out, Goff is sacked on 1st down, throws a 6-yard pass on 2nd-and-21, then throws a 2 yard pass on 3rd-and 15. TERRIBLE PUNT DRIVE.

4th Drive: 62 plays in 9 plays, but really just two: Gurley breaks off a 15 yard run and takes a short dumpoff pass 43 yards. On 2nd-and-17 from the Houston 20, Goff scrambles for just 6 yards and then throws an incomplete pass on 3rd down. Gurley put him in position, and he failed to capitalize. BAD FG DRIVE.

5th Drive: 14 yards in 6 plays. Goff completes a 2-yard pass on 3rd-and-1, but then has a false start, two incomplete passes, and an 8-yard completion on 3rd-and-15. TERRIBLE PUNT DRIVE.

To this point in the game, Goff is 6-12 for 60 yards. But in reality he has played awful. Goff has made ONE good play all game, and that was a little dumpoff to the rb where Gurley did all the work. All of Goff's other completions were useless because they were short dumpoffs on 3rd-and-long when he needed more yards. He's been put in the red zone twice and didn't do anything with it either time. After 5 drives, Goff is having a horrific game. But traditional stats make his game look okay.

6th Drive: 43 yards in 10 plays. This is Goff's first decent drive, but when he gets in Houston territory he throws two incompletions followed by a 7-yard pass on 3rd-and-10. MEDIOCRE FG DRIVE.

That was the first half. The Rams are winning 9-7, but one field goal was all defense and the other was all Gurley. Goff has had a horrible game to this point.

7th Drive: 12 yards in 4 plays. Goff gets a 1st down after another false start, but then gets an intentional grounding, throws for just 2 yards on 2nd-and-20, and then incomplete on 3rd down. TERRIBLE PUNT DRIVE.

Note that traditional stats don't tell you that Goff's offense has two false starts and an intentional grounding penalty at this point, or that he's failed on 3/4 of his passing 3rd downs.


8th Drive: 96 yards in 2 plays. 94 yard TD pass to a wide open Robert Woods. It's great, but it's ONE pass. GOOD TD DRIVE.

At this point Goff is now 13-23 for 200 yards and a TD. Does that really come close to reflecting how terrible he's played? He has ONE pass that made those stats look good.

9th Drive: 39 yards in 9 plays. Goff goes 4-5 for 35 yards which makes his stats look great, but gets sacked twice which kills the drive. BAD PUNT DRIVE.

10th Drive: 36 yards in 3 plays. A great punt return puts LA in good position, Goff makes two good passes go get the TD. Good job, but again just 2 passes. GOOD TD DRIVE.

11th Drive: 12 yards in 1 play. A Houston fumble puts LA on the 12 yard line, Goff makes the TD pass. Finally capitalizing after all those chances. GOOD TD DRIVE.

12th Drive: 74 yards in 9 plays. Gurley again does most of the work, Goff goes 4-4 for 47 yards which "looks" great, but two of those completions were 4yds on 2nd-and-14 and 7yds on 3rd-and-10, which improves his stats but doesn't help the team. Though with a 30-7 lead the game was basically over already anyway. MEDIOCRE FG DRIVE.

13th Drive: 28 yards in 8 plays. Bunch of running plays to run out the clock.



That is Goff's actual game.

7 terrible drives
2 mediocre drives
3 good drives which were only 4 good passes combined.


By traditional stats that's a great game, because the Ram defense kept setting him up in Houston territory and he eventually capitalized with a few TDs. But most of the completions were useless dumpoff passes on 3rd-and-long, most of the yards were from just a few plays.

QBR says that Goff had a mediocre, slightly below-average game, and QBR would be right. If you throw 37 passes in a game and only 4 of them were meaningfully good, why should it automatically be considered a great game?

so basically QBR puts too much emphasis on what QB didn't do vs. what QB did do in the game? that's such a glass half empty way to judge a QB breh.

and it's impossible to get into the context of the each plays because there are so many variables.

and this really doesn't show up in any stat line


tom "i'm always 7 steps ahead of you." brady

but i know something is right with QBR cuz the best QBR season ever was brady 2007

 

[Rickdogg44]

 

[Dog Based Gremlin]

 

[Professor Emeritus]

so basically QBR puts too much emphasis on what QB didn't do vs. what QB did do in the game? that's such a glass half empty way to judge a QB breh.

QBR is ultimately an efficiency stat, so it puts emphasis on both equally. If you had 12 drives to move the ball, and you blew 9 of them but succeeded on three, QBR will reflect that. If another player has eight drives to move the ball and succeeds on three, then he has higher efficiency and that matters. You shouldn't get more credit as a QB just because the defense keeps getting the ball back to you faster.

Also, how your drives failed matter. If the QB throws an incompletion on 1st down then a 5-yard pass on 3rd-and-8, that's on him. If the QB throws an 8-yard ball on first down then the running back fails to get the 1st, that's not as much on the QB.

And the more consistent the QB is on good plays, the better. A td drive with four 20-yard strikes is better than one with a single 20-yard strike that the receiver ran sixty more for the td. The first QB is proving he can make a plus play consistently, so he gets four big plays factored into his average rather than, say one big play and some incompletions.

That "efficiency" aspect of the stat is important for some of ya'all trying to compare numbers. It's telling you how good your plays were on average, not how good the total game was, and sacks and penalties factor into that average.

 

[PlaidShirtHipsterBoy]

One of the craziest things to me is that people in this day and age are willing to spend their life staying uninformed, use part of their short time on Earth to post their ignorant uninformed opinions on message boards, and then brag about the fact that they're not even gonna try to get informed. Like, why? You think that with you obviously not knowing what you talking about, then bragging about the fact you ain't gonna read anything to learn more, your opinion becomes worth....what exactly? And you spent actual time writing something ignorant, more time bragging about it being ignorant, and then you prolly gonna post something else ignorant in response to this too?

I actually read the whole post and I think you are making great points. Maybe it is better to rate QBs play-by-play. It seems like QBR is a better way to measure actual efficiency than Passer rating.

 

[Darealtwo1]

nikkas is really looking at 70+ completion percentages, 4-5 TDs, 0 INT's, 0 turnovers and trying to justify a 40 QBR.

I can't go back and forth with these nikkas. I'm gone live my best life.

 

[King Poetic]

who cares.... i hear skip bayless bring this shyt up for dak , to make a case of him being a top 5 QB

 

[Professor Emeritus]

nikkas is really looking at 70+ completion percentages, 4-5 TDs, 0 INT's, 0 turnovers and trying to justify a 40 QBR.

I can't go back and forth with these nikkas. I'm gone live my best life.

Literally NONE of the examples involved 70+% completion or 4-5 TDs.

And your entire argument is still "I like stats!" You're just listing raw stats with no context and claiming that proves raw stats are better.

Does it really prove anything to complete 68% of your passes if 30% of them were dump off passes on 3rd-and-long that didn't helo the team?

Does it mean anything to throw for 310 yards if 140 if it came on two passes where your wrs just broke a bunch of tackles and beat some guys?

Are 2-3 tds all that impressive if your defense was setting you up on the doorstep repeatedly and you kept failing to capitalize?

Does it matter to throw zero INT's if you kept getting sacked on third down or went 3-and-out seven times?

Sure, Tebow proved you can win a game with just 1-2 good drives sometimes. But QBR exists to explain how good the quarterback's ENTIRE game was on average, not just whether he had a couple good drives that saved 2-3 quarters of bullshyt.

All these numbers require context. Sometimes a qb puts up great numbers because he played great all game and sometimes his teammates just kept putting him in good situations until he capitalized.

Are you gonna keep for contextless stats by just posting contextless stats, or do you actually have an argument?

 

[FabTrey]

QBR is ultimately an efficiency stat, so it puts emphasis on both equally. If you had 12 drives to move the ball, and you blew 9 of them but succeeded on three, QBR will reflect that. If another player has eight drives to move the ball and succeeds on three, then he has higher efficiency and that matters. You shouldn't get more credit as a QB just because the defense keeps getting the ball back to you faster.

Also, how your drives failed matter. If the QB throws an incompletion on 1st down then a 5-yard pass on 3rd-and-8, that's on him. If the QB throws an 8-yard ball on first down then the running back fails to get the 1st, that's not as much on the QB.

And the more consistent the QB is on good plays, the better. A td drive with four 20-yard strikes is better than one with a single 20-yard strike that the receiver ran sixty more for the td. The first QB is proving he can make a plus play consistently, so he gets four big plays factored into his average rather than, say one big play and some incompletions.

That "efficiency" aspect of the stat is important for some of ya'all trying to compare numbers. It's telling you how good your plays were on average, not how good the total game was, and sacks and penalties factor into that average.

i get that. but for me it's a same damn TD. what's wrong with leading a WR who had a step on the DB and throw a 20 yard dart that got him 80yard TD? easy pitch and catch that resulted in 6? i'll take that anytime anyday. yes, QB shouldn't take all the credit for that. but they shouldn't take the points away from the QB either. objective for QB is to score points no matter how it happened.