How come Black Thought is one of the greatest lyricists ever but is never in anybody’s top 10 rapper list?
- Thread starter Amerikan Melanin
- Start date
He’s in my top 5
It's way harder to be lyrical and still make great songs or hits ultimately. People who do what Big, Nas, Kendrick, 3K, Jay are ultimately going to top those lists because of the songs they made that stuck with people more than how they can bar out and destroy verses. The ultimate elite rappers figure out when less is more and how to service a song over a verse. Eminem did it well too up until his second album. Then he forgot to let the song shine over his verses.
Blackthought is a monster but when it comes to actual songs he wrote hook and all that stand out for ages he doesn't excel. he has brilliant moments
Blackthought is a monster but when it comes to actual songs he wrote hook and all that stand out for ages he doesn't excel. he has brilliant moments
Exactly.
Cats get punished for being smart, intelligent, witty, etc.
Always gotta dumb down for dollars.
need some greater production ..
This is true the album he did with 9th Wonder & Salaam Remi was heat the other one was ehhhhh. He needs to do like Nas did with hit boy
I hate this argument because some of the smartest MCs know how to appeal to emotions and THAT is what a great lyricist is to me. Saying a bunch of metaphors and rhyming syllables is great, but the average person isn’t listening to music to solve puzzles, they’re listening to feel something… joy, anger, relief, love, etc.
The lyrical miracle audience is a small segment of the Hip Hop fan base and if we’re being honest, most of them are nerds. This is coming from someone who has seen The Roots live multiple times and appreciates Black Thought as an MC. Imagine his career with more of this…
Not to mention, they burned a lot of bridges with the What They Do video.
Kane sums it up well here.
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His lyrics are good but the production be shytty over a 10 track record
“Nas went on Hot 97 calling The Roots hypocrites for making a video of this magnitude and then playing backup for Jay-Z for his MTV Unplugged performance. His stance was that Jay-Z fell into the category that fit the mold The Roots were calling out.”
history.hiphop
I bet that video was Questlove’s idea. Fat dummy stalled their career trying to be too smart.
The Roots - What They Do Video | The Hip Hop Museum
The song was one of first by The Roots to get substantial airtime on music video networks like MTV and BET. It became an instant classic but what made the video profound was the message that said The Roots didn’t follow suit despite industry standards.
history.hiphop
I bet that video was Questlove’s idea. Fat dummy stalled their career trying to be too smart.
Unbothered
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He's one of the best spitters ever but his lack of solo efforts is what prevents him from being in any top Hip-Hop lists. We all know the Roots materials are classic and Thought's recent stuff has been good but that's not enough to rank him so high, at least in my opinion.
It just depends on what the listener's criteria are...some of us rank rappers based on their lyrics/verses/features regardless of their solo output and there are people like me who take into consideration their body of work alongside their lyrics and verses the rank them appropriately.
For example, I've seen people rank guys like Jadakiss, Fabulous, Papoose, Andre 3K, etc as top 10 rappers based solely on their verses and features but I'd personally never rank guys like them that high on a list because of their lack (or subpar output) of solo work.
It just depends on what the listener's criteria are...some of us rank rappers based on their lyrics/verses/features regardless of their solo output and there are people like me who take into consideration their body of work alongside their lyrics and verses the rank them appropriately.
For example, I've seen people rank guys like Jadakiss, Fabulous, Papoose, Andre 3K, etc as top 10 rappers based solely on their verses and features but I'd personally never rank guys like them that high on a list because of their lack (or subpar output) of solo work.
I don't disagree.
The definition of lyricism, typically agreed upon, is that of wordplay.
You're basically positing a different definition of lyricism within the typical discourse of hip hop discussions.
If that's the metric of lyricism, how much it evokes emotions in the listener, then Tupac is the greatest of all time.
If we switch to that type of scale, Thought fails there too.
How do I judge that?
When you look at a Tupac, or arguably an Andre 3000 (I think he straddles the line, but what made him into an icon is his emo stuff), - they have a body of work that Thought just doesn't have.
He just never had the type of records that could reach people (Blame Quest Love!)
He rarely ever had the beats. (Blame Quest Love)
And when he does, he for whatever reason, doesn't really get the folks to vibe with him like that.
If anything, him and the roots, and the rest of "nerd hop", makes music for earbuds, they make album type music, not really hit single, club jams type music.
As for what the average person cares about in terms of music - you can hear what they like on the radio and in the clubs.
You can hear what they rap along to when the dj drops out the vocals. That's not this crowd, and we're not presently having that discussion.