How Advance were African Civilizations before European Colonialism??

[LurkMoar]

Someone please tell me why we are allowing white supremacist filth like this to be posted?

This thread should be DELETED. Its nothing more than crakkkas talking to each other.

oh wait its swag quoting me nvm

 

[thekingsmen]

Dude, this is nice and all, but I said your next thread.

No no you can't pick and choose....

 

[LurkMoar]

Yes you are off base. You clearly know nothing about the trade and the trade routes in West and Central Africa. You might want to study a little bit more about West and Central Africa before you keep making comments.

The biggest items traded to the Europeans, Arabs and Chinese was gold. How did you not know that? Some of these clowns on here are talking about slaves and stupid shyt like that, but they seem to be completely unaware that a large amount of Europe's gold in medieval time came from Africa. Why do you think this guy was in the middle of European and Arab maps?

That is Mansa Musa. He was the Emperor of the Empire of Mali and the richest person in the history of the World. He and his Kingdom became rich because of trade.

Here's what it was like to be Mansa Musa, thought to be the richest person in history
This is the richest human being in all history
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Meet The World's Richest Man

Here are the trade routes that he and the Mande people (aka Mandingos) controlled.

I am always completely surprised at how little people know about Africa and Africans, yet they have no problem pretending that they know so much about Africa and Africans. If people bothered studying even a little bit about the Sahelian Empires and the Kingdom of Kongo they are going to be completely surprised about what the Hell they never knew and didn't learn in school. Like almost all the music that people listen to in the USA has it's roots in the Blues out of Mali.

none of this invalidates my gunpowder point in regards to Europeans, and yes i knew of the mali gold trade almost everyone does. Dapped for good info anyway

 

[null]

Why is this thread still on here? MODS BUSH THIS SH*T.

Just like the bushed 'jewish' one ?

 

[Samori Toure]

none of this invalidates my gunpowder point in regards to Europeans, and yes i knew of the mali gold trade almost everyone does. Dapped for good info anyway

Gunpowder was invented by the Chinese. Many African Kingdoms already had rudimentary guns and gunpowder, which they got in trade from the Arabs and Europeans.

You all are way overstating Europe's use or weaponry and the like, because most of their weaponry was useless against most of the African Kingdoms during medieval times, because large African Kingdoms were built far inland, rather than on the coastlines. So Navy fleets were useless against those large Empires, because those large empires had large armies that easily trounced Europeans in earlier battles. Or were you unaware of the fact that the Fante (an Akan people) easily expelled the Portuguese from Castle in Elmina in Ghana. Think about that for a minute. The Fante are a small group of the larger Akan subgroup, yet they alone were easily able to expel the Portuguese from Ghana, even though the Portuguese had this vaunted gunpowder that you speak of. Imagine that. Even with gunpowder the Portuguese could not even get inland a few miles, before getting their asses kicked.

https://www.ghanagrio.com/articles/articles/ghana-articles/3088-fante-people.html


You and other people are confusing the weapons that the Europeans developed during the industrial revolution with the weapons medieval times. The industrial revolution happened because of slavery made the Europeans wealthy. That wealth allowed the Europeans to develop better weaponry, which in turn allowed them to finally enter into a conquest to colonize the African kingdoms that they had long coveted. That was 300 years later, before the Europeans could attempt to colonize Africa. Even with the advanced weapons the Europeans still caught Hell, becasue the British had 5 wars against the Ashanti before they could finally subdue them. The English lost 3 of those wars. The English had to eventually get the help of other African tribes to finally bring down the Ashanti in 1896; and then they still had to depose the Ashanti King his Court in 1902, who were sent in exile to Seychelles. Even after all that the English could only hold Ghana for roughly 50 years and they quickly gave them independence in 1957.

Anglo-Ashanti wars - Wikipedia
The Ashanti War

Then there were the three French and Mandingo wars in West Africa. No one talks about those wars either. I wonder why? The French got their asses totally kicked trying to take the lands of the Mandingos. Even with machine guns and the Mandingos use of less advanced weaponry that the Mandingos purchased from the English; it took 15 years before France could finally subdue the Mandingos. Even then they still had to expel Samory Toure in 1898 to Gabon, before the Mandingos finally relented. The French needed the help of other African tribes and the English to finally be able to subdue the Mandingos, but the French lost two of three wars against the Mandingos before finally being able to the take the lands of the modern countries Mali, Guinea, Ivory Coast and Burkina Faso. And of course the French gave independence to those lands roughly 60 years later, because they were difficult to hold.

Mandingo Wars - Wikipedia
Samori Ture - Wikipedia
Samory | West African ruler

So this whole gunpowder narrative that you are pushing wasn't even what you think. You must be thinking about the British wars against the Zulus in South Africa or the wars that the British had against the Yoruba groups in modern Benin and Nigeria. Or the wars that the French had against the people of Dahomey. Or the wars in Congo. However, further in West Africa the English and French caught Hell even with machine guns, because the Mandingos (Mande) and Ashanti (Akan) are extremely organized and militarized, which is why the Europeans attempt to avoid wars there if at all possible.

 

[Apollo Creed]

Gunpowder was invented by the Chinese. Many African Kingdoms already had rudimentary guns and gunpowder, which they got in trade from the Arabs and Europeans.

You all are way overstating Europe's use or weaponry and the like, because most of their weaponry was useless against most of the African Kingdoms during medieval times, because large African Kingdoms were built far inland, rather than on the coastlines. So Navy fleets were useless against those large Empires, because those large empires had large armies that easily trounced Europeans in earlier battles. Or were you unaware of the fact that the Fante (an Akan people) easily expelled the Portuguese from Castle in Elmina in Ghana. Think about that for a minute. The Fante are a small group of the larger Akan subgroup, yet they alone were easily able to expel the Portuguese from Ghana, even though the Portuguese had this vaunted gunpowder that you speak of. Imagine that. Even with gunpowder the Portuguese could not even get inland a few miles, before getting their asses kicked.

https://www.ghanagrio.com/articles/articles/ghana-articles/3088-fante-people.html


You and other people are confusing the weapons that the Europeans developed during the industrial revolution with the weapons medieval times. The industrial revolution happened because of slavery made the Europeans wealthy. That wealth allowed the Europeans to develop better weaponry, which in turn allowed them to finally enter into a conquest to colonize the African kingdoms that they had long coveted. That was 300 years later, before the Europeans could attempt to colonize Africa. Even with the advanced weapons the Europeans still caught Hell, becasue the British had 5 wars against the Ashanti before they could finally subdue them. The English lost 3 of those wars. The English had to eventually get the help of other African tribes to finally bring down the Ashanti in 1896; and then they still had to depose the Ashanti King his Court in 1902, who were sent in exile to Seychelles. Even after all that the English could only hold Ghana for roughly 50 years and they quickly gave them independence in 1957.

Anglo-Ashanti wars - Wikipedia
The Ashanti War

Then there were the three French and Mandingo wars in West Africa. No one talks about those wars either. I wonder why? The French got their asses totally kicked trying to take the lands of the Mandingos. Even with machine guns and the Mandingos use of less advanced weaponry that the Mandingos purchased from the English; it took 15 years before France could finally subdue the Mandingos. Even then they still had to expel Samory Toure in 1898 to Gabon, before the Mandingos finally relented. The French needed the help of other African tribes and the English to finally be able to subdue the Mandingos, but the French lost two of three wars against the Mandingos before finally being able to the take the lands of the modern countries Mali, Guinea, Ivory Coast and Burkina Faso. And of course the French gave independence to those lands roughly 60 years later, because they were difficult to hold.

Mandingo Wars - Wikipedia
Samori Ture - Wikipedia
Samory | West African ruler

So this whole gunpowder narrative that you are pushing wasn't even what you think. You must be thinking about the British wars against the Zulus in South Africa or the wars that the British had against the Yoruba groups in modern Benin and Nigeria. Or the wars that the French had against the people of Dahomey. Or the wars in Congo. However, further in West Africa the English and French caught Hell even with machine guns, because the Mandingos (Mande) and Ashanti (Akan) are extremely organized and militarized, which is why the Europeans attempt to avoid wars there if at all possible.

I believe around this time is when my great great grandfather and a few others came into Liberia from Guinea.

 

[Samori Toure]

I believe around this time is when my great great grandfather and a few others came into Liberia from Guinea.

Yep that is very likely, because you have general knowledge of when they moved South from Mali. Many African American ancestors moved South, East and West from Mali about 200-300 years before then. They entered into Sierra Leone, Guinea, Guinea-Bissau, Liberia, Burkina Faso and Ivory Coast in the Mane Invasion.

 

[Apollo Creed]

Yep that is very likely, because you have general knowledge of when they moved South from Mali. Many African American ancestors moved South, East and West from Mali about 200-300 years before then. They entered into Sierra Leone, Guinea, Guinea-Bissau, Liberia, Burkina Faso and Ivory Coast in the Mane Invasion.

That is a seperate event from what was going on with Toure. People trickled down intonthose places over time due to political turmoil/decline of Sahel kingdoms. My maternal great great uncle gave the mandingos land in northen liberia in i believe the late 1800s or early 1900s (he was muslim). He lived to be well over 100 (i was informed they calculated this based on the historical evemts he was able to recall).I assume they were coming from Guniea because of the wars with the french. The prior statement i made, i think i got my timelines mixed up, my paternal great great grand father had to have come into liberia in the early to mid 1800s.

 

[The Odum of Ala Igbo]

Gunpowder was invented by the Chinese. Many African Kingdoms already had rudimentary guns and gunpowder, which they got in trade from the Arabs and Europeans.

You all are way overstating Europe's use or weaponry and the like, because most of their weaponry was useless against most of the African Kingdoms during medieval times, because large African Kingdoms were built far inland, rather than on the coastlines. So Navy fleets were useless against those large Empires, because those large empires had large armies that easily trounced Europeans in earlier battles. Or were you unaware of the fact that the Fante (an Akan people) easily expelled the Portuguese from Castle in Elmina in Ghana. Think about that for a minute. The Fante are a small group of the larger Akan subgroup, yet they alone were easily able to expel the Portuguese from Ghana, even though the Portuguese had this vaunted gunpowder that you speak of. Imagine that. Even with gunpowder the Portuguese could not even get inland a few miles, before getting their asses kicked.

https://www.ghanagrio.com/articles/articles/ghana-articles/3088-fante-people.html


You and other people are confusing the weapons that the Europeans developed during the industrial revolution with the weapons medieval times. The industrial revolution happened because of slavery made the Europeans wealthy. That wealth allowed the Europeans to develop better weaponry, which in turn allowed them to finally enter into a conquest to colonize the African kingdoms that they had long coveted. That was 300 years later, before the Europeans could attempt to colonize Africa. Even with the advanced weapons the Europeans still caught Hell, becasue the British had 5 wars against the Ashanti before they could finally subdue them. The English lost 3 of those wars. The English had to eventually get the help of other African tribes to finally bring down the Ashanti in 1896; and then they still had to depose the Ashanti King his Court in 1902, who were sent in exile to Seychelles. Even after all that the English could only hold Ghana for roughly 50 years and they quickly gave them independence in 1957.

Anglo-Ashanti wars - Wikipedia
The Ashanti War

Then there were the three French and Mandingo wars in West Africa. No one talks about those wars either. I wonder why? The French got their asses totally kicked trying to take the lands of the Mandingos. Even with machine guns and the Mandingos use of less advanced weaponry that the Mandingos purchased from the English; it took 15 years before France could finally subdue the Mandingos. Even then they still had to expel Samory Toure in 1898 to Gabon, before the Mandingos finally relented. The French needed the help of other African tribes and the English to finally be able to subdue the Mandingos, but the French lost two of three wars against the Mandingos before finally being able to the take the lands of the modern countries Mali, Guinea, Ivory Coast and Burkina Faso. And of course the French gave independence to those lands roughly 60 years later, because they were difficult to hold.

Mandingo Wars - Wikipedia
Samori Ture - Wikipedia
Samory | West African ruler

So this whole gunpowder narrative that you are pushing wasn't even what you think. You must be thinking about the British wars against the Zulus in South Africa or the wars that the British had against the Yoruba groups in modern Benin and Nigeria. Or the wars that the French had against the people of Dahomey. Or the wars in Congo. However, further in West Africa the English and French caught Hell even with machine guns, because the Mandingos (Mande) and Ashanti (Akan) are extremely organized and militarized, which is why the Europeans attempt to avoid wars there if at all possible.

Great post. I'd only add for the Yoruba, that the British were able to slowly conquer Yorubaland largely because the Yoruba were politically disunited. If they had unified, the British would've faced quite a formidable opponent. Even still, disunited peoples (such as the Igbo) put up decades of resistance against the British Empire and their African levies.

 

[Samori Toure]

That is a seperate event from what was going on with Toure. People trickled down intonthose places over time due to political turmoil/decline of Sahel kingdoms. My maternal great great uncle gave the mandingos land in northen liberia in i believe the late 1800s or early 1900s (he was muslim). He lived to be well over 100 (i was informed they calculated this based on the historical evemts he was able to recall).I assume they were coming from Guniea because of the wars with the french. The prior statement i made, i think i got my timelines mixed up, my paternal great great grand father had to have come into liberia in the early to mid 1800s.

Yeah I realize that. Your family obviously migrated much later, which is what I was attempting to point out.

Most African American ancestors from that region migrated roughly 200-300 years earlier, which is how they were sold from place like Bunce Island in Sierra Leone in the 1600s. They got there on the Mane Invasion, which was an Mande people invasion from Mali into the forest belt regions of Sierra Leone, Guinea and Liberia. In fact your family may have been involved in that Invasion into Guinea if that is where they left from to go to Liberia. However, AAs ancestors of Mende, Mandingo, Susu, Loko, Vai, etc., were part of that invasion.

 

[Apollo Creed]

Yeah I realize that. Your family obviously migrated much later, which is what I was attempting to point out.

Most African American ancestors from that region migrated roughly 200-300 years earlier, which is how they were sold from place like Bunce Island in Sierra Leone in the 1600s. They got there on the Mane Invasion, which was an Mande people invasion from Mali into the forest belt regions of Sierra Leone, Guinea and Liberia. In fact your family may have been involved in that Invasion into Guinea if that is where they left from to go to Liberia. However, AAs ancestors of Mende, Mandingo, Susu, Loko, Vai, etc., were part of that invasion.

People moved south in waves. Most of the Tribes pretty much settled in certain areas with the modern borders being irrelevant (because the areas the tribes are found tend to overlap into the neighboring towns in neighboring countries.

 

[get these nets]

[

Naw man. You got that shyt all backwards.

Africans are from large empires. Their empires had trade; administrators; systems of taxation; diplomats; judges; universities; armies, etc., just like other empires around the World. These people that you are calling chiefs were nothing but little magistrates, tax collectors, mayors and shyt like that. They reported to the King. The Kings could put them to death or in slavery if the chiefs didn't carry out the edicts of the Kings. So it as the Kings that ran the empires.

Somehow people have confused the small communities that existed in the forest belts (the White man called them jungles) with African empires. Those people in the forest belt escaped to those areas to flee from the Kings and the armies in those larger empires. If they didn't escape there then they would have been forced to pay tribute (taxes) to those kings. One of the largests groups to escape to the jungles were the Akan people. The Akan people were actually from the Kingdom of Ghana (modern day Senegal, Mauritania and Mali), but sometime around the 1200s to the 1300s or so they fled Ghana because Islam was spreading there and in the Empire of Mali was rising to power. They moved into the forests of modern day countries of the Ivory Coast and Ghana, wherein they established Bonoman Empire. From the Akan people we get the Ashanti, Fante, Denkyira, Baoule, Brong and other ethnic groups known in Ivory coast and Ghana, but those people are actually from much further North, just like the Mande people (Mende, Mandingos, etc.).

Discover the Ivory Coast & Ghana Ethnicity - AncestryDNA

I'm convinced that you are posting just to post. The Euro merchants would eventually meet with the LEADER ,who was the one making the ultimate decisions. In fact, I'd have to think that this was the rule rather than the exception. That wasn't in dispute in this thread until you called yourself trying to correct people.

Here is a Euro painting depicting Dutch traders meeting with (and genuflecting before) King Alvaro .of one of the very empries you described, Kongo

drawing from the journal of Jean Barbot (french merchant/trader) meeting with the King of Sestro in 1681

I figure that after the Akan consolidated, and began trading slaves that the Euro traders were received by the Akan ruler/king, who made the ultimate decision.

Again, none of this is/was in dispute at any point of this thread.

 

[Samori Toure]

[


I'm convinced that you are posting just to post. The Euro merchants would eventually meet with the LEADER ,who was the one making the ultimate decisions. In fact, I'd have to think that this was the rule rather than the exception. That wasn't in dispute in this thread until you called yourself trying to correct people.

Here is a Euro painting depicting Dutch traders meeting with (and genuflecting before) King Alvaro .of one of the very empries you described, Kongo

drawing from the journal of Jean Barbot (french merchant/trader) meeting with the King of Sestro in 1681

I figure that after the Akan consolidated, and began trading slaves that the Euro traders were received by the Akan ruler/king, who made the ultimate decision.

Again, none of this is/was in dispute at any point of this thread.

You just engaged in the ultimate act of bullshyt. You just stated what the Hell you are doing, which is posting just to be posting. It is well known that the Africans are from vast empires and then you showed what the Hell you don't know, because the Akan people are an ethnic group made up of of several independent Kingdoms. So there was no such thing as an Akan King. That is some shyt that you made up, which sounds like some Cac shyt. The Akan people (Ashanti, Baoule, Brong/Abron, Fante, Denkyira, etc.), were different independent Kingdoms spread out from Ivory Coast to Ghana; which were related, but also competed against each other.

Like the other posters have written; you all are exposing yourselves as Cacs.

 

[Swagnificent]

Why is this bullsh*t thread constantly being upped?

You cacs already exposed yaselves. Let this go.

 

[get these nets]

You just engaged in the ultimate act of bullshyt. You just stated what the Hell you are doing, which is posting just to be posting. It is well known that the Africans are from vast empires and then you showed what the Hell you don't know, because the Akan people are an ethnic group made up of of several independent Kingdoms. So there was no such thing as an Akan King. That is some shyt that you made up, which sounds like some Cac shyt. The Akan people (Ashanti, Baoule, Brong/Abron, Fante, Denkyira, etc.), were different independent Kingdoms spread out from Ivory Coast to Ghana; which were related, but also competed against each other.

Like the other posters have written; you all are exposing yourselves as Cacs.

No, you are using an out to avoid my bigger point. The cac line is just to distract those following this conversation.

The point was that Euros would eventually meet and discuss details of the trade of goods (or people) with the ACTUAL ruler.....not "an adminstrator". Again, as I've said all thread, these Euros, used to their own political issues and conflicts , made it a point to know everything possible about the groups they were dealing with..including who was in charge. If the King would grant them an audience, they would surely prefer to speak to the ACTUAL final decision maker of the region.
Certainly the administrative work was done by underlings, but Euros were aware of who was actually in charge.


It's easier for you to point out my error in viewing Ashanti as synonymous with Akan, than it is to address my larger point. It's the easy way out. But the point stands....the Euros would meet with the heads of the respective sub-Akan groups that they were doing business with.