Holy Cannoli! We’re On The Strive For Five! The Dynasty Rolls On! Golden State Warriors 2022-23 Season Thread

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

Nobody is saying to burn him out but ask yourself he couldn’t play that final 3 mins of the 3rd to keep our lead? Soon as he went to the bench kings went on that run to cut the lead to 1pt… Kerr took him out and he didn’t start the fourth quarter.. He could’ve finished that 3rd qt and bring him back at the 7min more of the fourth..

The problem with this is, does Steph need to play 40+ minutes out of a 48-min game for this team to win? If so, how long do you think that'll last before that wears on a 35-year-old undersized guard with a ton of mileage? Do you forget during the season where he was playing heavy minutes and he didn't have his legs down the stretch and his game suffered? How many times did we see him make bad decisions, and his shot was off because of fatigue? The Kings will go on runs whether he's in or out of the game, they had the #1 offense during the regular season. There's no combatting that by just playing Steph in hopes to counter that, unless your answer is to leave him out there for 48 minutes. There's inevitably going to be times where he goes to the bench and Kings will make a run.

Klay, Wiggins and Poole were all on the floor when he went to the bench near the end of the third. If they can't hold down the fort for a few minutes, what hope is there for this team? What more could Kerr have done than have those three out there on the floor without Steph? It's not like he was running a GP2, Kuminga and Lamb lineup in his absence. The lineup contained three of the Warriors best scorers.

This isn't 2015. You can't just throw him out there for 40 minutes a game especially this early on in the playoffs in a ridiculously-paced series.

Keep in mind, this matchup is the easiest they're going to encounter. What happens in the next round, and the round after that and the round after that? How practical do you think it is if for him to play those sort of minutes whilst maintaining a high-level of player at his age? Are y'all just going to default to "Steph should've played more minutes" every time this team loses?

 

[King Eros]

While people are copping pleas for him...

Steph HIMSELF has never complained about playing too many minutes.

Everyone keeps calling him "the best conditioned athlete", then we turn around and treat him like a fragile elder.

Every time he's asked, he says he felt great and had plenty in the tank. Or he shrugs off the question out of respect for Coach Kerr.

Every situation is unique.

He can play 40 minutes one game, and 20 minutes the next.

It's not about 100% using "science and analytics" to deal with humans.

Some "art and nuance" is required as well to achieve optimal results.

It's not guaranteed that him playing more situational minutes would equal a win, but it should be something to consider and not completely off the table.

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

While people are copping pleas for him...

Steph HIMSELF has never complained about playing too many minutes.

When has Steph ever complained about anything? He's the most care-free superstar that's ever existed.

I still don't get this argument as you can't let Steph dictate how many minutes he plays because he's going to sacrifice his body to his absolute limits without thinking of the long term repercussions. That's the coaching staff's job to work that out and make sure he doesn't go past that threshold.

Everyone keeps calling him "the best conditioned athlete", then we turn around and treat him like a fragile elder.

Every time he's asked, he says he felt great and had plenty in the tank. Or he shrugs off the question out of respect for Coach Kerr.

He is one of the best conditioned athletes, that still doesn't mean he doesn't have a ton of mileage and isn't 35 years old. It's harder for him to keep a consistent high level of play for an extensive period of time. We've seen this season where he gets fatigued down the stretch of games and his play suffers. You've even commented on his performances in this context, so I don't know why all of a sudden you're acting brand new over this.

Every situation is unique.

He can play 40 minutes one game, and 20 minutes the next.

When is Steph ever going to be able to play 20 minutes in a playoff game with how this team is structured? You know cotdamn well the likelihood of that happening is close to zero, and that's the reason why his minutes need to be managed. This team doesn't have the luxury of just playing him 40 one game and then hoping that in the next game he can play low minutes.

I mean, haven't we seen enough of this team this season to know they need Steph out there for every possible minute to compete? There's a reason why they've been in and out of the playoff picture all season.

It's not about 100% using "science and analytics" to deal with humans.

Some "art and nuance" is required as well to achieve optimal results.

It's not guaranteed that him playing more situational minutes would equal a win, but it should be something to consider and not completely off the table.

Where are you getting this "science and analytics" shyt from?

The way Steph has been managed is more to do with Kerr and the coaching staff knowing what it takes to manage him throughout a playoff run. You know, the "art and nuance" of knowing and understanding his body. They've had a near-decade of doing it, and the results speak for themselves. I remember y'all up in arms at how Steph's minutes were handled last season and look at the end result. Look at what happened to Tatum where he burned out from playing too many minutes and was damn-near worthless in the Finals. Look at how good Steph looked in comparison.

The fact of the matter is, the coaching staff has been pretty much faultless in how they've handled Steph throughout this era. There's a reason why there isn't a single PG in NBA history that has lasted this long at the top.

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

This was during a game where Steph played 42 minutes:

Steph been on narcotics all 4th man

Bro is tired… we gotta win this game tho and rest the vets tomorrow

It’s clear he tired. Them shots all types of short. Y’all shoulda wrapped this up so he could rest the 4th

I low-key wanted Steph to foul out in the 4th. He seemed to have lost his mojo and was playing like a mix of bad Klay and bad Jordan.

Ball hogging, crazy shot taking, lazy passing, shoulders slumped, arguing with refs.



If he's tired, let him rest. We need to stop depending on him to save us anyway.

You even said yourself that he was tired @King Eros, and there were multiple posts during that game that spoke about how his performance suffered because he was fatigued. You'll find a number of these types of exchanges where folks are talking about his play being affected by him being tired throughout the season.

This is why him playing more minutes is not the answer because the results of his play aren't always going to be fruitful; playing him more minutes doesn't mean he's going to maintain the same high level of play throughout. Again, he's 35, it shouldn't be expected of him either.

 

[King Eros]

When has Steph ever complained about anything? He's the most care-free superstar that's ever existed.

I still don't get this argument as you can't let Steph dictate how many minutes he plays because he's going to sacrifice his body to his absolute limits without thinking of the long term repercussions. That's the coaching staff's job to work that out and make sure he doesn't go past that threshold.

He is one of the best conditioned athletes, that still doesn't mean he doesn't have a ton of mileage and isn't 35 years old. It's harder for him to keep a consistent high level of play for an extensive period of time. We've seen this season where he gets fatigued down the stretch of games and his play suffers. You've even commented on his performances in this context, so I don't know why all of a sudden you're acting brand new over this.

When is Steph ever going to be able to play 20 minutes in a playoff game with how this team is structured? You know cotdamn well the likelihood of that happening is close to zero, and that's the reason why his minutes need to be managed. This team doesn't have the luxury of just playing him 40 one game and then hoping that in the next game he can play low minutes.

I mean, haven't we seen enough of this team this season to know they need Steph out there for every possible minute to compete? There's a reason why they've been in and out of the playoff picture all season.

Where are you getting this "science and analytics" shyt from?

The way Steph has been managed is more to do with Kerr and the coaching staff knowing what it takes to manage him throughout a playoff run. You know, the "art and nuance" of knowing and understanding his body. They've had a near-decade of doing it, and the results speak for themselves. I remember y'all up in arms at how Steph's minutes were handled last season and look at the end result. Look at what happened to Tatum where he burned out from playing too many minutes and was damn-near worthless in the Finals. Look at how good Steph looked in comparison.

The fact of the matter is, the coaching staff has been pretty much faultless in how they've handled Steph throughout this era. There's a reason why there isn't a single PG in NBA history that has lasted this long at the top.

If he's tired, let him rest. If he's not tired, maybe let him play.

This topic doesn't require lengthy diatribes.

Do the Warriors need to play better with Steph off the floor? Absolutely.

This is where MY argument that JP is not a point guard and shouldn't be on ball in late game situations comes in. I'd honestly rather Try Jerome handle the ball. But Donte will do. It's still a bit of a problem.

But there should definitely be times where Steph (or anyone else) plays extra minutes based on game momentum and series situations.

That's my point and it's a little silly to argue against.

Question for you:

Would you play Steph extra minutes late in a close Game 3 down 0-2? Or an elimination game? Or would you stick to the normal rest patterns - situation be damned?

 

[King Eros]

This was during a game where Steph played 42 minutes:




You even said yourself that he was tired @King Eros, and there were multiple posts during that game that spoke about how his performance suffered because he was fatigued. You'll find a number of these types of exchanges where folks are talking about his play being affected by him being tired throughout the season.

This is why him playing more minutes is not the answer because the results of his play aren't always going to be fruitful; playing him more minutes doesn't mean he's going to maintain the same high level of play throughout. Again, he's 35, it shouldn't be expected of him either.

I hear you.

The larger point buried in the "play Steph more" argument is "Dubs need to play better without Steph" argument...

Which leads back to the backup point guard argument. Which leads me to the "JP is not a point guard" argument.

Don't care to relitigate it.

But I think we can agree on one thing.

The Warriors need to play better with Steph off the floor, especially late in games.

Now let's build on how they can do that.

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

Show me where I've complained about Steph playing too many minutes.

Sometimes you lump other people's arguments with the specific person you're replying to.

Already did, playa.

But there should definitely be times where Steph (or anyone else) plays extra minutes based on game momentum and series situationsI

Again, the problem with this is, you're under the impression he can play 40 minutes one game and then 20 the next. I know you don't literally mean exactly 20, but you know cotdamn well they can't just plan for him to play 40 minutes one game and hope they can play him limited minutes the next. They don't have that luxury, and that's the reason why they just can't senselessly play him high minutes. His minutes need to be managed, and if he needs to play 40 minutes just for this team to win a game, well, there's something wrong with the other components, and not with them needing to play Steph more.

We know that these cats can't be relied upon to score without Steph in a playoff environment on a consistent basis, so therefore we can conclude that Steph is going to need to play significant minutes in essentially every game, so therefore it's up to the coaching staff to make sure they don't overextend him, not only for the sake of his own performance but in preparation for the succeeding rounds.

I mean, are we going to have the same argument next season when Steph is 36 and y'all wanting the coaching staff to play him more minutes?

The fact of the matter is, he shouldn't even be playing 37 minutes to begin with. Those types of minutes should be reserved for extreme circumstances and not the first game of the playoffs.

Question for you:

Would you play Steph extra minutes late in a close Game 3 down 0-2? Or an elimination game? Or would you stick to the normal rest patterns - situation be damned?

Well, that would be a case of desperate times call for desperate measures.

But Game 1 of the first round isn't that. They're not on the brink of going down 0-3 during Game 1. And even more to that point, managing his minutes like this allows them to play him extra minutes when he really needs to. If they just play him max minutes in nearly every game, what's going to happen when they really need him to perform at his best during a situation like that? You don't think the accumulation of all those minutes and workload won't affect his gameplay?

This is especially applicable during this series with how fast the pace is and how young the Kings are. They need to keep Steph as fresh as possible.

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

I hear you.

The larger point buried in the "play Steph more" argument is "Dubs need to play better without Steph" argument...

Which leads back to the backup point guard argument. Which leads me to the "JP is not a point guard" argument.

Don't care to relitigate it.

But I think we can agree on one thing.

The Warriors need to play better with Steph off the floor, especially late in games.

Now let's build on how they can do that.

And the bold should be the focus.

That's what I'm been trying to reiterate. Wasting all this energy on talking about playing Steph more minutes is losing sight of the actual problem. The coaching staff needing to play Steph more shouldn't even be a topic of discussion. Keep in mind, he averaged 34 minutes last season in the playoffs, so there shouldn't be a scenario where a year later he's needing to average more minutes.

He should be playing less as time goes on - not more.

Steph can't keep getting older and expected to play more minutes in the playoffs without there being consequences.

 

[King Eros]

And the bold should be the focus.

That's what I'm been trying to reiterate. Wasting all this energy on talking about playing Steph more minutes is losing sight of the actual problem. The coaching staff needing to play Steph more shouldn't even be a topic of discussion. Keep in mind, he averaged 34 minutes last season in the playoffs, so there shouldn't be a scenario where a year later he's needing to average more minutes.

He should be playing less as time goes on - not more.

Steph can't keep getting older and expected to play more minutes in the playoffs without there being consequences.

So as a knowledgeable Warriors fan. What are your suggestions for the Warriors to play better without Steph?

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

So as a knowledgeable Warriors fan. What are your suggestions for the Warriors to play better without Steph?

Get better players.



Seriously though, the system can only cover up so much. You need talent to win in this league.

 

[BigMoneyGrip]

This was during a game where Steph played 42 minutes:




You even said yourself that he was tired @King Eros, and there were multiple posts during that game that spoke about how his performance suffered because he was fatigued. You'll find a number of these types of exchanges where folks are talking about his play being affected by him being tired throughout the season.

This is why him playing more minutes is not the answer because the results of his play aren't always going to be fruitful; playing him more minutes doesn't mean he's going to maintain the same high level of play throughout. Again, he's 35, it shouldn't be expected of him either.

But wasn’t that a reg season game?

 

[King Eros]

Get better players.



Seriously though, the system can only cover up so much. You need talent to win in this league.

Try Jerome will get us organized.

 

[Don Homer]

Very random attack from Cowherd

I don’t watch his show so idk if he’s talked about it before. And monk and Fox are fast as hell tbf

 

[BlueHeffner]

Very random attack from Cowherd

I don’t watch his show so idk if he’s talked about it before. And monk and Fox are fast as hell tbf

Hes right


He cant be trusted in a playoff environment

 

[SCORCH]

Very random attack from Cowherd

I don’t watch his show so idk if he’s talked about it before. And monk and Fox are fast as hell tbf

Lol not really a random attack. That's Draymond's media guy lol