Have ECW and Lucha Libre influences ruined modern wrestling?

Rollie Forbes

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Kevin Nash was pretty spot on:

This is not to say that Kevin Nash is not a fan of Mick Foley, but he seems to blame Foley for a huge part of the wrestling industry being destroyed after Foley did his infamous fall off the Hell in a Cell cage.

"Nash was a guest on Eric Bischoff's “83 Weeks” podcast and spoke about Hulk Hogan being the greatest worker to ever wrestle. When Nash admitted that his answer would come as a shock to a lot of people, he explained that one of the things Hogan was so good at was wrestling 300 nights per year and never injuring anyone. Nash knew that you could wrestle Hogan over and over and, " I knew for a matter of fact, a million percent, I would bet everything I own, that I’m going to come back to the locker room in the exact same shape that I left it."

That element of safety in wrestling went away in 1998 when Foley dove off the cage at Hell in a Cell. Nash explained, "I’ll say it to the day I die, one of the biggest parts of our business that died happened at Hell in the Cell when Mick Foley fell, whatever he fell, 40 feet through that table, because now we took work, and made it a stunt.""

Everything is a stunt now. Even worse, guys do stunts just for the sake of doing stunts...and then nobody sells the stunt that the "performers" just did.
:unimpressed:
 

The Prince of All Saiyans

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Kevin Nash was pretty spot on:

This is not to say that Kevin Nash is not a fan of Mick Foley, but he seems to blame Foley for a huge part of the wrestling industry being destroyed after Foley did his infamous fall off the Hell in a Cell cage.

"Nash was a guest on Eric Bischoff's “83 Weeks” podcast and spoke about Hulk Hogan being the greatest worker to ever wrestle. When Nash admitted that his answer would come as a shock to a lot of people, he explained that one of the things Hogan was so good at was wrestling 300 nights per year and never injuring anyone. Nash knew that you could wrestle Hogan over and over and, " I knew for a matter of fact, a million percent, I would bet everything I own, that I’m going to come back to the locker room in the exact same shape that I left it."

That element of safety in wrestling went away in 1998 when Foley dove off the cage at Hell in a Cell. Nash explained, "I’ll say it to the day I die, one of the biggest parts of our business that died happened at Hell in the Cell when Mick Foley fell, whatever he fell, 40 feet through that table, because now we took work, and made it a stunt.""

Everything is a stunt now. Even worse, guys do stunts just for the sake of doing stunts...and then nobody sells the stunt that the "performers" just did.
:unimpressed:
Hogan and Nash both just slow and you can call their moves
 

Rollie Forbes

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Hogan and Nash both just slow and you can call their moves
If you've been watching wrestling long enough, you can call everybody's moves. Nothing is new, or even innovative.
Just because some little guy runs full speed through a 45 minute match, doesn't sell, and doesn't give his moves time to resonate doesn't mean he's better than what the old-school guys did. If you've seen any of the modern guys' matches, you still pretty much know what's coming next.
 

The Prince of All Saiyans

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If you've been watching wrestling long enough, you can call everybody's moves. Nothing is new, or even innovative.
Just because some little guy runs full speed through a 45 minute match, doesn't sell, and doesn't give his moves time to resonate doesn't mean he's better than what the old-school guys did. If you've seen any of the modern guys' matches, you still pretty much know what's coming next.
:yeshrug:
 

Skyjacker

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Everyone feels the same. What they think is "good wrestling" is shyt because too many people have similar looks, while doing similar moves.
 

Larry

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Fans Ruined modern wrestling. You can’t please people that don’t want to be pleased. Is what it is.
 

Jcotton1

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ECW :blessed: :banderas:. The wrestlers going way up damn near to the rafters sometimes and slamming someone through numerous tables. :ufdup::pacspit: :russ:
 
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Psychosis

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No, the style was always gonna evolve and change and people were just gonna adapt/copy.

When TLC became the craziest thing in wrestling, a lot of indy dudes just wanted to be Jeff Hardy.

When UFC rose in popularity everyone started rocking kick pads and started adding strike combos in their moveset.

When ROH started appropriating Japanese Fighting Spirit (specifically Davey Richards) and have multiple spots with no selling that became the wave.

Now we’re in the PWG phase where it doesnt have to make sense just invoke big reaction.

This is it. To further add, wrestling schools hop on the trend and teach whats currently the trend so their students get bookings.
 

LevelUp

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shyt no.
I think it elevated the game a bit more. With Lucha Libre imo it gave people a different perspective in regards to the high fly shyt you usually see. It even sprinkle it way down to Puroresu with guys like Ultimo Dragon, Yoshytune etc.

ECW the same constantly putting their body on the line for the fans :dame:
 

Hey_zeus

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It's not one thing. Things happen that get popular and people copy them incessantly. Sasaki vs Kobashi 1st match in Noah is why everybody everywhere does staggered strike exchanges. From that one match... it's countless examples of things being innovative or getting over to where they are copied to a point where they lose meaning and are just normal things expected to happen. The suicide dives in every match. The superkick spam. Shining wizards and now V triggers used by everyone. Epic matches being valued over great storytelling. All comes from inspiration gone wrong. You can't narrow it down to one style or promotion. It's been a collaborative effort.
 

The Amerikkkan Idol

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ECW brought that hardcore/Grunge energy and saved the business.. WCW and WWF was straight shyt in 95-96 with their cartoon gimmicks and garbage stories
I disagree somewhat. Yeah ECW was an influence, but what changed the business was Eric Bischoff being given a ton of money and ripping off the NWO storyline. If that doesn't happen, Vince is still trying to force Ultimate Warrior on people in '97-'98.

WCW turning Hogan heel and jacking Diesel and Razor is the single most important thing that probably ever happened in the modern era.

Fans Ruined modern wrestling. You can’t please people that don’t want to be pleased. Is what it is
That's such a WWE answer.

AEW fans LOVE that shyt
NJPW fans LOVE that shyt.
ROH fans LOVE that shyt.

Now, I'm not a fan of a lot of the shyt that they love, hence my quote being the impetus for this thread, but outside of WWE, most fans are fans of the feds they watch.

Most of the criticism of those guys comes from old guys like me & Jim Cornette that grew up with a different type of wrestling.
 
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