Gomorra - The Series

[KalKal]

FINALLY got around to watching the pilot 3 years after I first heard about it in this thread

Much higher production values than I expected. For some reason, I thought it would be ultra-low budget, cheap looking, and in SD. I'd say the quality looks on par with a US Cable TV show, and greater than most of the continental European shows they show over here (e.g "Deutschland '83" and "Les Revenants")

 

[KalKal]

Just made it up to Episode 9 of season 1. I wasn't prepared for how...dark...this show would get.
Right not I feel as if Omar from The Wire turned into Stannis Baratheon

 

[KalKal]

Spoiler

There was no 'hero' which I like because it kept you on your toes. Ciro was a bytch ass nikka from the beginning - he was the rat Don Pietro was looking for

Great season finale.. one of the best I've seen in a minute.

Spoiler

I was going for Ciro to take over the whole thing up until he tortured the girl.. but thinking back he's probably been doing sh-t like that working for Don Pietro.

Yo I have never not liked a main character in a show as much after the whole mechanic and his brother part. I was cool with Ciro and liked his ambition but what he did was some fukked up shyt and I started hoping he got killed after.

Just finished season 1. Lots of people compared this to The Wire, but I think that it's actually closer to The Shield.

What I mean is, the show kind of lulls you into thinking that the main character is kind of an anti-hero-style "good guy", at least relative to the standards of the world that he lives in. But then by the end of the show you look back at the first episode and realize that he was just a piece of garbage the whole time. After episode 9 I was actively rooting for him to get shot, and in episode 12 he shows he has no loyalty to ANYONE, even using his own daughter and a bunch of schoolkids as bait.

But of course by Episode 2 he's already broken whatever kind of "code of honor" guys like that are supposed to have. So when you look back you feel kind of bad for even rooting for him, even a little bit.

It's just like how Vick Mackey was a murderer from day 1, yet by the end of the first season The Shield kind of manipulates you into forgetting about all that and rooting for him.

 

[MidniteJay]

Just finished season 1. Lots of people compared this to The Wire, but I think that it's actually closer to The Shield.

What I mean is, the show kind of lulls you into thinking that the main character is kind of an anti-hero-style "good guy", at least relative to the standards of the world that he lives in. But then by the end of the show you look back at the first episode and realize that he was just a piece of garbage the whole time. After episode 9 I was actively rooting for him to get shot, and in episode 12 he shows he has no loyalty to ANYONE, even using his own daughter and a bunch of schoolkids as bait.

But of course by Episode 2 he's already broken whatever kind of "code of honor" guys like that are supposed to have. So when you look back you feel kind of bad for even rooting for him, even a little bit.

It's just like how Vick Mackey was a murderer from day 1, yet by the end of the first season The Shield kind of manipulates you into forgetting about all that and rooting for him.

Dap and rep. The Shield was classic for that shyt, I didn't think I would fall for that again until I saw Gomorra.

 

[NoGutsNoGLory]

Just finished season 1. Lots of people compared this to The Wire, but I think that it's actually closer to The Shield.

What I mean is, the show kind of lulls you into thinking that the main character is kind of an anti-hero-style "good guy", at least relative to the standards of the world that he lives in. But then by the end of the show you look back at the first episode and realize that he was just a piece of garbage the whole time. After episode 9 I was actively rooting for him to get shot, and in episode 12 he shows he has no loyalty to ANYONE, even using his own daughter and a bunch of schoolkids as bait.

But of course by Episode 2 he's already broken whatever kind of "code of honor" guys like that are supposed to have. So when you look back you feel kind of bad for even rooting for him, even a little bit.

It's just like how Vick Mackey was a murderer from day 1, yet by the end of the first season The Shield kind of manipulates you into forgetting about all that and rooting for him.

The comparisons to the wire are more to do with how the story revolves around the city of naples from the law enforcement, prisons, immigrants, local people, etc. In a similar way in which the wire explored baltimore.

 

[L68]

 

[HollywoodP]

was looking for this thread...can't wait for season three...I heard September...but I searched recently and saw it was coming out this fall.

 

[WaveGang]

was looking for this thread...can't wait for season three...I heard September...but I searched recently and saw it was coming out this fall.

When is fall

 

[FruitOfTheVale]

They finally got the 2nd season on netflix, binged it last night and this morning

2nd season was dope although the yarn seems to be wearing a little thin to sustain another season tbr.

Spoiler

the drug wars were never as interesting as the family politics imo and all the families we were introduced to in the 1st season are either dead, broken or on a predictable path to being dead or broken. The alliance concept this season was interesting but most of the side stories were kind of boring. The whole subplot involving Annalisa's daughter in law and driver was .

They killed off Conte waaaay too soon and why wouldn't he have had some of his Spanish goons in the cut just in case? He of all people should've known not to trust any of them Naples cats. The fact that none of his people retaliated at all is a little ridiculous as well and especially from the way they set him up in the 1st season.

There's more I could say but the main thing is that I don't see where they're gonna create the intrigue from in the next season, you already know 60% of the characters are gonna be killed off so why give a fukk about them at all... same game different players The Wire succeeded with this subject matter because you got to see the cops and crooks evolve over the course of the show... it was powerful seeing the characters go from being green and ambitious to jaded but capable. Gomorrah is making me jaded as a viewer to even give a shyt about what happens next. It's beautifully filmed and the writing is intelligent but it lacks protagonists... its main characters are just chess pieces in a game that is turning out to be more and more pointless.

 

[MidniteJay]

They finally got the 2nd season on netflix, binged it last night and this morning

2nd season was dope although the yarn seems to be wearing a little thin to sustain another season tbr.

Spoiler

the drug wars were never as interesting as the family politics imo and all the families we were introduced to in the 1st season are either dead, broken or on a predictable path to being dead or broken. The alliance concept this season was interesting but most of the side stories were kind of boring. The whole subplot involving Annalisa's daughter in law and driver was .

They killed off Conte waaaay too soon and why wouldn't he have had some of his Spanish goons in the cut just in case? He of all people should've known not to trust any of them Naples cats. The fact that none of his people retaliated at all is a little ridiculous as well and especially from the way they set him up in the 1st season.

There's more I could say but the main thing is that I don't see where they're gonna create the intrigue from in the next season, you already know 60% of the characters are gonna be killed off so why give a fukk about them at all... same game different players The Wire succeeded with this subject matter because you got to see the cops and crooks evolve over the course of the show... it was powerful seeing the characters go from being green and ambitious to jaded but capable. Gomorrah is making me jaded as a viewer to even give a shyt about what happens next. It's beautifully filmed and the writing is intelligent but it lacks protagonists... its main characters are just chess pieces in a game that is turning out to be more and more pointless.

Spoiler

Read somewhere there was an uproar when Conte died. IMO they should have never that tranny plotline for him, and maybe Ciro's gambit against him should have failed and then the show could have been Conte vs Genny vs Don Pietro.

Ciro gonna look wack next season I'm not sure how they're gonna make him interesting again.

 

[street heat]

I keep trying to put people on and they keep giving me the

When they learn it's in Italian

 

[mson]

Spoiler

Read somewhere there was an uproar when Conte died. IMO they should have never that tranny plotline for him, and maybe Ciro's gambit against him should have failed and then the show could have been Conte vs Genny vs Don Pietro.

Ciro gonna look wack next season I'm not sure how they're gonna make him interesting again.

How do you think that T plotline affected his character?

 

[re'up]

In a way it is all pointless....There is extremely nihilistic element to that life, which Gomorrah shows perfectly.... whether it is Tijuana or Naples, it's the real version of live fast die young. It's not glamorous, and it's ugly, and bleak. The characters are all personified, and people align around who they ID with, but these aren't supposed to be "characters", they are killers and gangsters, who witness, order, and participate in killings on a daily, weekly basis. They have lost a lot of humanity, a long time ago. Ciro explains that, confession of sorts in the end of the season, when he doesn't kill Patriza.

Also, it's very much chess, but exploring the deep social issues that have led to this situation in Italy, and in these socioeconomic conditions across the world, really. The main characters are never going to be Tony Soprano types, because of the more documentary/realism approach the show takes, and the scale on which these guys operate. Tony's crew killed maybe 5 people in a season, these guys are killing dozens per week, for control of the retail drug trade. Tony Soprano would be the 1% of the Mafia, these guys are the mid 20%.

I agree, in a sense, that it cannot go on for too many seasons, without really changing, because these people will never live long enough.... I know the showrunner was really influenced by The Shield, so hopefully he realizes what a graceful, powerful, ending can do for a show's legacy.

 

[FruitOfTheVale]

In a way it is all pointless....There is extremely nihilistic element to that life, which Gomorrah shows perfectly.... whether it is Tijuana or Naples, it's the real version of live fast die young. It's not glamorous, and it's ugly, and bleak. The characters are all personified, and people align around who they ID with, but these aren't supposed to be "characters", they are killers and gangsters, who witness, order, and participate in killings on a daily, weekly basis. They have lost a lot of humanity, a long time ago. Ciro explains that, confession of sorts in the end of the season, when he doesn't kill Patriza.

Also, it's very much chess, but exploring the deep social issues that have led to this situation in Italy, and in these socioeconomic conditions across the world, really. The main characters are never going to be Tony Soprano types, because of the more documentary/realism approach the show takes, and the scale on which these guys operate. Tony's crew killed maybe 5 people in a season, these guys are killing dozens per week, for control of the retail drug trade. Tony Soprano would be the 1% of the Mafia, these guys are the mid 20%.

I agree, in a sense, that it cannot go on for too many seasons, without really changing, because these people will never live long enough.... I know the showrunner was really influenced by The Shield, so hopefully he realizes what a graceful, powerful, ending can do for a show's legacy.

I dig what you're saying but at times the show struggles to capture the humanity of ANY of the characters including those caught in the crossfire and those who are loosely affiliated but not involved. Ciro's daughter could have been far better developed with as much screen time as she got. Instead we only see her from Ciro's POV and we don't get enough of Ciro's POV as a father for that to mean much. We get the cold calculations for why she was targeted by pietro and we see the momentary hesitance of the killer but the information the show gives us forces us to look at it the way Pietro looked at it: it effectively destroyed Ciro. The loss of her life itself isn't given any other meaning beyond being a gut punch which is problematic when the only identifiable central characters are this unsympathetic, even the ones who are clearly the victims in all of this.

 

[re'up]

I am not someone who defends a show to the last, or creates wild arguments to support weak theories, but maybe you'll see the perspective I am looking at it from,....in addition to being very realistic, there is a bit of stylish operatic sense that plays a part, Ciro's love for his daughter is shown more through a few scenes, and music backed images, than a long, drawn out, relationship. There is a scene where he tells her "You have your friends....I only have you", and laying down in the bed with her, fetal position, when he shows her where he killed her Mom....I mean, that is deep, dark, twisted, loving material, but it's all in glimpses and shades.

I definitely don't look at her death like that, I didn't even want to watch that scene, as I saw it coming. It's about the human toll these killings take, and the loss of humanity. People are doing this daily right across the border from me, so, this show is real life to me, this is how it really happens and plays out. Kids get killed in cross fires, caught in the car, executed in their homes, this is a reality for many people. So, that's how I looked at it. And the show gives it incredible dramatic weight for Ciro, he could easily order the execution of Patriza, or Genny, or whomever, and continue the war of attrition, but he's done. He realizes the cost of death and killing, something he's been struggling with for a long time, and revealed clearly when he says he can't kill anymore.

Also, Ciro's daughter, is a child, and a woman in the sub culture of Italian organized crime, so if she comes off like persona non grata, it's a way of life.

And as far as unsympathetic.....I mean, the show is entirely insular. There are no outside characters for which the casual viewer can ID with, no white cop after them, (narcos!) no Hollywood boyfriend like that Escobar movie, no undercover fed caught in the mix, it's all in the world of retail drug wars of organized crime. I think this is where myself and other viewers can differ. These people aren't monsters, they aren't victims entirely, it's in between. This is the life. That's what it is. I see the characters as deeply human, their actions are all entirely in a world to which normative values are not applied, and they play by those rules. Thats what these people are like. That's the world they live in.

So, for many, I think, it's easier and makes more sense to view it as a "sports game" of sorts, which they gradually loose interest in, because the characters are somewhat repulsive to them. So, while entertained and engrossed, they don't quite grasp the more subverted dynamics underneath the show. Which isn't directed at you, just observations based on people I know, who watched the show. They seemed to lack the larger, and smaller picture.