Glad to see a series about the Camorra too, it's a rarer topic for the public than the Sicilian or the American Cosa Nostra.
Now we would only need a show about 'Ndrangheta
this fukking scene...
and the usage of the soundtrack all over the epsodes...
The last scene caught me off guard. I thought Ciro and his goons will get Pietro while he's on the road so I was expecting the truck and that the guards will slayed but I thought the action is for get Pietro out. When I saw that it's actually a rescuing action and this mfer just played the fool the whole time
Just binged the first 3 episodes of season 1 tonight off the strength of this thread
The writing, cinematography and acting are all A+. I heard of Scampia before, never thought they'd make a show about it. This is everything that Top Boy could have been if the writing and acting had been up to par.
Just binged the first 3 episodes of season 1 tonight off the strength of this thread
The writing, cinematography and acting are all A+. I heard of Scampia before, never thought they'd make a show about it. This is everything that Top Boy could have been if the writing and acting had been up to par.
When the guy who seemed probably the most honorable out of all the gangsters goes on and pulls the trigger on a little girl
the tension in the final scene...
the satisfaction what I felt when they drowned Trak...
I'm curious how season 3 will play out. Genny will continue to deal the coke to Ciro and the others w/o involving himself more deeply? The war will continue between Malammore + Alley Boys vs Ciro's guys or the war will be over now?
Genny's mental improvement was also nice. In the last season he was a young Turk he has no strategy but just went with his head against the wall, wanted to rule everything.
Now he definitely gotten smarter than that, he is still power hungry and greedy though (see how he played out his wife's father...)
Also I was upset with Conte's death, that guy was a stable point, a reasonable guy from the beginning plus a good character, I doN't know why Ciro had to get him out he wasn't that power hungry as some others in the show...
When the guy who seemed probably the most honorable out of all the gangsters goes on and pulls the trigger on a little girl
the tension in the final scene...
the satisfaction what I felt when they drowned Trak...
I'm curious how season 3 will play out. Genny will continue to deal the coke to Ciro and the others w/o involving himself more deeply? The war will continue between Malammore + Alley Boys vs Ciro's guys or the war will be over now?
Genny's mental improvement was also nice. In the last season he was a young Turk he has no strategy but just went with his head against the wall, wanted to rule everything.
Now he definitely gotten smarter than that, he is still power hungry and greedy though (see how he played out his wife's father...)
Also I was upset with Conte's death, that guy was a stable point, a reasonable guy from the beginning plus a good character, I doN't know why Ciro had to get him out he wasn't that power hungry as some others in the show...
That was one of the best seasons of television I've ever seen period. Out of all the crime dramas I've seen, Gomorra came the closest to really capturing how disturbing that whole way of life really is. It captured how ordinary people will adapt to the rules of any system as long as there is perceived order.
The importance of maintaining order (perceived and real) was what I took away to be the overarching theme of the season. Ciro was not satisfied with his place in the order of things so he chose to destroy order entirely. Don Pietro's downfall was his inability to make maintaining order priority #1. Every mistake he made - falling out with Contre (and losing his plug on the good product), wreaking havoc in the prison (and losing his freedom), etc. - was a result of him not respecting the order of things above all else. On the flipside, his wife understood the need for restoring order and recognized those who did not respect order as being the greatest threats to her family's security. However, her downfall was that she was not equipped to maintain that order; she simply was not the enforcer that her husband is.
Genny was his father's son: he became an enforcer whose #1 priority was maintaining respect, not maintaining order. When he attempted to win back his father's old guard and make amends between them and his friends, he told them that the most important thing that the clan needed to retain was respect. Ironically he killed Zecchinetta because of perceived disrespect: Zecchinetta was trying to tell him that his plot against Contre was ill-advised because respect was not worth starting a war over. He correctly stated that Contre should not have been the main concern: maintaining order was the only option that could save the Savastano empire.
Ciro correctly deduced that Genny would put maintaining respect above maintaining order and that's why he was successfully able to destroy the order of things. There was an interesting relationship dynamic in the show where two characters would together share respect and order but individually only have one. Ciro was motivated by a nearly sociopathic desire for respect but he was put in check by Atti until Atti died. Ciro and Don Pietro are very alike: they're inclined to burn the whole building down (which Pietro literally did in the prison) if they feel that they are not given their due respect. Without their counterparts though they're only capable of shaking things up: They can't settle things down because there are too many other players in the game just like them. Players like Pietro don't see the bigger picture and will ultimately burn their own empires to the ground over respect.
I'm definitely going to watch season 2, good look @Nature Boy Ric Flair for the rec.
Thinking about the show a little more, it's crazy how they interleaved the idea of respect vs. order in so many different scenes/situations.
1) Genny realized that his girlfriend was incompatible with him because she was also motivated by respect. She wanted Genny to demand his respect even at the cost of upsetting the order in his own family.
2) Donna Imma realizes after Pietro gets locked up that she needs an enforcer to demand respect and maintain the order that she's plotting to establish so she created an enforcer out of her own son
3) Daniele (unknowingly) upset the order of things because he wanted to earn Ciro's respect The moral of that story is to respect those who respect order first.
4) The Africans wanted to negotiate to change the order of things but the problem was that they were negotiating (and doing business) with people who never respected them to begin with
5) Contre is by far the most competent/balanced boss of the bunch; he demonstrates that with his treatment/manipulation of Ciro. Contre makes Ciro understand that he is an enforcer when he throws him off the boat. He communicates that to establish a respect between them which in turn creates order (i.e. Ciro does not arrive armed at the club after nearly being killed even though he was strapped on the boat). Contre is not without weaknesses: the Russians outman and outgun him. Knowing this, he does not shoot back at the Russians despite that they literally come for his neck because that would surely result in chaos. Instead, he shunts the dirty work of establishing order onto Ciro who is in no position whatsoever to bargain
The importance of maintaining order (perceived and real) was what I took away to be the overarching theme of the season. Ciro was not satisfied with his place in the order of things so he chose to destroy order entirely. Don Pietro's downfall was his inability to make maintaining order priority #1. Every mistake he made - falling out with Contre (and losing his plug on the good product), wreaking havoc in the prison (and losing his freedom), etc. - was a result of him not respecting the order of things above all else. On the flipside, his wife understood the need for restoring order and recognized those who did not respect order as being the greatest threats to her family's security. However, her downfall was that she was not equipped to maintain that order; she simply was not the enforcer that her husband is.
Genny was his father's son: he became an enforcer whose #1 priority was maintaining respect, not maintaining order. When he attempted to win back his father's old guard and make amends between them and his friends, he told them that the most important thing that the clan needed to retain was respect. Ironically he killed Zecchinetta because of perceived disrespect: Zecchinetta was trying to tell him that his plot against Contre was ill-advised because respect was not worth starting a war over. He correctly stated that Contre should not have been the main concern: maintaining order was the only option that could save the Savastano empire.
Ciro correctly deduced that Genny would put maintaining respect above maintaining order and that's why he was successfully able to destroy the order of things. There was an interesting relationship dynamic in the show where two characters would together share respect and order but individually only have one. Ciro was motivated by a nearly sociopathic desire for respect but he was put in check by Atti until Atti died. Ciro and Don Pietro are very alike: they're inclined to burn the whole building down (which Pietro literally did in the prison) if they feel that they are not given their due respect. Without their counterparts though they're only capable of shaking things up: They can't settle things down because there are too many other players in the game just like them. Players like Pietro don't see the bigger picture and will ultimately burn their own empires to the ground over respect.
Nice breakdown and I agree but not with the bold part
I found Ciro's and Pietro's characters vastly different
yeah, both of them wants power as many others in the game but their approach is very different.
While Ciro is okay with (or maybe even prefers to) just organizing things with him being the most important boss of a somewhat "democratic" organization, Pietro admittedly wants total control over the others and total authority, he even says he doesn't believe in democracy in this world.
They also demand respect on different ways.
Pietro demands respect as a boss, a boss over everyone there and he expects respect on that level.
Ciro on the other hand rather wanted to be respected as free from any fukkery, oppression, any bosses. At least after Pietro got locked down. Before that he only wanted to build his reputation and career path further and be respected as an important member of the family. His real power hunger only made it's way after Petro got locked down but even then he didn't thrive to demand respect from anyone as a boss of bosses.
For Ciro it's not a shame to cut deals, make agreements and etc... on the other hand Piero works strictly on the "I'm the strongest dog here, if you fukk with me I'll eliminate you" way which causes the problems at the beginning (when he doesn't take his men's advise). I can imagine that later on Ciro will become more ad more like Don Pie though...
So in a nutshell while both of them are power hungry and respect hungry they are that on different ways.
Conte is more business minded. When things heated up he was okay with going to Spain cause he still made stacks of cash with he drug business. I doN't say that he didn't demand power and respect. A boss and just characters in general want that, I just say he doesn't demand these as much as Ciro or Pietro.
Ciro or Pietro wouldn't have gone to Spain in a similar situation they would have continued the war in Naples.
Genny is an interesting case.
His motivation first were only to get more accepted by his father and that he could enjoy his life, after Honduras he became a real Young Turk and he started to act like his father, going through anyone who didn't obey. He also imagined this rather as a strictly hierarchical organization with hm as the successor at the top. He wanted extra amount of respect and power.
In the second season however he became rather business minded and while he kept his power mindedness he did it more lowkey (his moves with Prince...), probably he learnt from Ciro and he petty much left the demand for respect behind except with his father but that's another story... Otherwise he didn't give no fukks about what he others said about him in Naples behind his back or how some people didn't like him cause he still had the power (they depended on him cause of the drugs) plus he got the money.
Nice breakdown and I agree but not with the bold part
I found Ciro's and Pietro's characters vastly different
yeah, both of them wants power as many others in the game but their approach is very different.
While Ciro is okay with (or maybe even prefers to) just organizing things with him being the most important boss of a somewhat "democratic" organization, Pietro admittedly wants total control over the others and total authority, he even says he doesn't believe in democracy in this world.
They also demand respect on different ways.
Pietro demands respect as a boss, a boss over everyone there and he expects respect on that level.
Ciro on the other hand rather wanted to be respected as free from any fukkery, oppression, any bosses. At least after Pietro got locked down. Before that he only wanted to build his reputation and career path further and be respected as an important member of the family. His real power hunger only made it's way after Petro got locked down but even then he didn't thrive to demand respect from anyone as a boss of bosses.
For Ciro it's not a shame to cut deals, make agreements and etc... on the other hand Piero works strictly on the "I'm the strongest dog here, if you fukk with me I'll eliminate you" way which causes the problems at the beginning (when he doesn't take his men's advise). I can imagine that later on Ciro will become more ad more like Don Pie though...
So in a nutshell while both of them are power hungry and respect hungry they are that on different ways.
Conte is more business minded. When things heated up he was okay with going to Spain cause he still made stacks of cash with he drug business. I doN't say that he didn't demand power and respect. A boss and just characters in general want that, I just say he doesn't demand these as much as Ciro or Pietro.
Ciro or Pietro wouldn't have gone to Spain in a similar situation they would have continued the war in Naples.
Genny is an interesting case.
His motivation first were only to get more accepted by his father and that he could enjoy his life, after Honduras he became a real Young Turk and he started to act like his father, going through anyone who didn't obey. He also imagined this rather as a strictly hierarchical organization with hm as the successor at the top. He wanted extra amount of respect and power.
I agree that Don Pietro effectively can only exist in a power vacuum. His wife directly disobeyed him to get back in business with Conte which was obviously the right business move. Pietro likely wouldn't have gotten back with Conte though because he would see it as an admission of weakness. After all, he chased him out in the first place.
I haven't started S2 yet, I'll start it this weekend.
Have a lot to say about this, may write something more substantial later as I finished Season 1 in October, on Sundance......Easily one of my favorite first seasons of television ever, top 10 all time. Also, one of the best portrayals of organized crime ever, this is how I want to make movies/series, and this is how these bullshyt Hollywood 'Cartel' movies should look like, but they wont. (Americans like our easy digestible villains and heroes, our happy enough endings, our pat romances)....The gorgeous cinematagraphy, realism, nihilisim, social commentary, and the music...The music was incredible, and a force in the series itself. In next year or so, I'll get to Italy, and for sure will go to Naples, and see these places for myself.
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