God the original liar?

[Scustin Bieburr]

If in the beginning there wasn't anything, and if God has knowledge of everything, then it's entirely within his power to lie and would have the ability to lie.

The God described in the Hebrew bible has way too many human characteristics. He seems to be modeled after the authoritarian Arab fathers that still exist to this day. He has human flaws like pettiness, vindictiveness, envy, jealousy and massive fits of rage. He doesn't behave like what he actually IS, a being that exists outside of time and space and can experience the past, present and future simultaneously.

Think about it. If there is a being who is able to see all possibilities in all scenarios, why would he behave like a human that doesn't? why would he have those flaws? why would he choose to have a woman who is married give birth to a child rather than an unmarried nun who was never seen with anyone who isn't a fellow nun?

When you start asking these kinds of questions, you start arriving at the conclusion that the God you see in the bible is an interpretation created in the mold of the kinds of fathers people had back then(and still have to this day), as opposed to--again--a being of limitless power who already knows what will happen before it does. In catholicsm there is the concept of predestination. God essentially already knows who will be saved and who won't. He's known from before your parents even were born whether you'd go to heaven or hell. The idea that good deeds could win you his favor is actually a product of protestant faith, not catholic which predates protestanism.

 

[Born Rich]

The argument about the root word mûṯ being used elsewhere in Scripture is fine in theory, but it doesn’t really address the issue here. Sure, מות can mean different things depending on the context, but in Genesis 2:17, the phrase “mot tamut” is paired with “on the day” (beyom) tying the consequence to a specific time frame. This isn’t just a vague warning of eventual mortality...it’s a direct statement about what will happen on that day.

I think we're in somewhat agreement here, breh, I just think you're not giving the proper weight to the action and focusing solely on the timing. The verse is essentially saying "on the day you eat of the tree you will surely inherit death". the "on the day" phrasing doesn't override the meaning of the word die and it still makes perfect sense in context of the verse.

Pointing to other uses of the root word elsewhere doesn’t override the immediate context here,

I wasn't pointing to other uses of the root word tho, breh, I was pointing to other uses of the exact form of the word.

which clearly links death on the day of eating the fruit. If God meant to say, “You’ll eventually die,” or “You’ll be judged and lose access to eternal life,” why didn’t He just say that? Instead, the warning is clear: “On the day you eat from it, you will certainly die.”

again, we're in agreement here, but it seems like you're trying to define death as the state of being dead when that's not how it's being used in the verse.

This isn’t about understanding the root word in general, it’s about what this specific passage says.

correct, which is why I provided the exact form of the word used in Gen 2:17 and provided the list of verses where the word is used in exactly the same way.

Later theological ideas like “judgment of death” are attempts to patch up what’s written to fit a broader doctrine. But if we’re sticking to what’s explicitly in the text, the serpent’s words align with the outcome far better than God’s warning does. Here’s my issue: what authority do they have to redefine what God clearly said? Adding extra interpretations undermines the clarity of the original statement. The serpent’s words, “You will not certainly die,” actually align with what happens—they didn’t die that day, their eyes were opened, and they gained knowledge. Meanwhile, God’s warning doesn’t match the immediate outcome. If we’re supposed to take God’s word seriously, why are we adding all these extra layers to it? Just let the text speak for itself... that's how I feel.

I appreciate the thoughtful response.

you're doing exactly that tho by trying to fit a definition of death into the verse that is clearly not intended as evidenced by it's use in the exact form in other verses. I'm using scripture to interpret scripture, but it seems like you're using your own interpretation...

edit: taking a step back and accepting the verse from your perspective doesn't make any sense when you actually think about it. if it was YAH's intention for Adam and Eve to die as soon as they ate the forbidden fruit, how would humanity have continued on? We wouldnt even be here having this discussion if YAH meant die in the way you're suggesting...or our progenitors would have been who.....some other couple? you see how it starts to fall apart, breh...

 

[Chrishaune]

a day is as 1000 years with the LORD.
and 1000 years is as a day

Nobody has lived over 1000 years on this earth.

Methuselah is the oldest recorded person to live, and when he died the flood came. His name literally means "when he dies, it shall come"

 

[King_Kamala61]

good on you wanting to learn Scripture, breh, but don't let your excitement lead you to errant discernment and incomplete conclusions...

when reading Scripture it's important to do a word search on every word so we get the complete context of the original language...

the Hebrew root word for "die" is מות (mûṯ; pronounced mooth), which means "to die, to kill, to be dead", but we have to look at the form of the word that is used and compare it to where the word is used in the same form elsewhere in scripture to understand the context....

the form of the word die used here is מ֥וֹת, and when we look at other instances of this form used in scripture we can see what context it's used in...

we can see that "die" in this context is used 31 total times throughout Scripture, but it doesn't mean too drop dead on the spot...it's prescriptively used to "assign" the judgement of death...and that's exactly what we see...

in the moment Adam & Eve ate the fruit, they subjected themselves to the judgement of death and disqualified themselves from eternal life...YAH never forbade them to eat from the tree of life, which would have granted them immortality, but their folly resulted in their loss of access to the tree of life, and the garden of eden as a whole, and their eventual physical death...

Y'all Negroes translating comic books

 

[MMS]

Please be more clear of your position.

Whats more real:

You, or a photo of you?

Put another way, as you "move through time" what happens to your images?

then watch this video

and for a moment lets imagine that an image represents a particle

edit - accidentally linked the wrong vid that vid can be found in this thread

https://www.thecoli.com/threads/the-locker-rooms-random-thoughts.313/page-22406#post-54593977

 

[MMS]

@010101 that vid wasnt what i meant to link makes my point look crazier ole animal demon logic

 

[Born Rich]

Y'all Negroes translating comic books

you worship ogun...that weak ass nikka couldn't even keep the white man from enslaving and subjugating his ancient adherents even wit home court advantage...and y'all quick to call on his "strength" to handle white folks in modern times... ...fukk out my mentions, goofy....

 

[King_Kamala61]

you worship ogun...that weak ass nikka couldn't even keep the white man from enslaving and subjugating his ancient adherents even wit home court advantage...and y'all quick to call on his "strength" to handle white folks in modern times... ...fukk out my mentions, goofy....

So you shame an African god and kneel before a white one?

Good job

 

[MMS]

So you shame an African god and kneel before a white one?

Good job

if you wanna get really down to it

its hard to escape the semen matrix if you love sexual relations with women

Genesis 29:14

14 And Laban said to him, Surely thou art my bone and my flesh. And he abode with him the space of a month.

The amazing name Laban: meaning and etymology

An indepth look at the meaning and etymology of the awesome name Laban. We'll discuss the original Hebrew, plus the words and names Laban is related to, plus the occurences of this name in the Bible.

www.abarim-publications.com

remember Esau was "red and hairy"

 

[Big Boda]

Threads like this aren't made to gain understanding at all but rather to taunt, mock and antagonize God.

2 Peter 3:3 knowing this first: that scoffers will come in the last days, walking according to their own lusts,

The garden of eden concept of death is nothing like the death we now experience. Adam and Eve were with God in a land of paradise on Earth not in danger of dying. After sinning they took on a state that is vulnerable to physical death. The version of themselves that dwelt peacefully unashamed in God's presence and comfort died immediately.

Genesis3:9-11
9 Then the Lord God called to Adam and said to him, “Where are you?”

God did not put man in a place of death. Man freely chose a world with sin and death

10 So he said, “I heard Your voice in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; and I hid myself.”

There was no fear or shame until after sin

11 And He said, “Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree of which I commanded you that you should not eat?”

It was literally All Good and Perfect paradise until Adam and Eve said forget what God said let's eat the apple.

Those questions God asks in gen 3:11 are reasonable because after all the peace and blessing given to the first man and woman what is this imma rebel from paradise Foolishness


The wages of sin is always death. to this day, opportunities, peace, hope, joy, health and many other things called good are lost as a consequence to everything the bible calls sin. sin isnt an unfair trick we always have to choose. It's sin because we are free to say no to it.

I really think people would move differently if they understood the reality of the judgment day Book of Life replay session with Jesus Christ where he asks us about our lives.

It's to the point I'm thinking of making a thread apologizing to the posters I've sent neg messages to telling them "off yourself" and other evil stuff it's all recorded. We have to answer one day for every thought, word and deed from the time we had living. Whether you believe it or not.

 

[cyndaquil]

is this the same guy who killed every firstborn child in egypt, but tells women they can't get an abortion

Adding to this...That abortion shyt is just some made up stuff by conservatives because after Civil rights act was passed they could no longer get the racist ass evangelical church goers to vote to keep segregation they had to switch up to something else that would tug on their religion force them to vote and made the whole pro life thing a huge issue. Prior to that period in the late 70s the churches had no official stance on abortion and views on it were mixed.

 

[ball15life]

good on you wanting to learn Scripture, breh, but don't let your excitement lead you to errant discernment and incomplete conclusions...

when reading Scripture it's important to do a word search on every word so we get the complete context of the original language...

the Hebrew root word for "die" is מות (mûṯ; pronounced mooth), which means "to die, to kill, to be dead", but we have to look at the form of the word that is used and compare it to where the word is used in the same form elsewhere in scripture to understand the context....

the form of the word die used here is מ֥וֹת, and when we look at other instances of this form used in scripture we can see what context it's used in...

we can see that "die" in this context is used 31 total times throughout Scripture, but it doesn't mean too drop dead on the spot...it's prescriptively used to "assign" the judgement of death...and that's exactly what we see...

in the moment Adam & Eve ate the fruit, they subjected themselves to the judgement of death and disqualified themselves from eternal life...YAH never forbade them to eat from the tree of life, which would have granted them immortality, but their folly resulted in their loss of access to the tree of life, and the garden of eden as a whole, and their eventual physical death...

what app is this?

 

[ReturnOfJudah]

good on you wanting to learn Scripture, breh, but don't let your excitement lead you to errant discernment and incomplete conclusions...

when reading Scripture it's important to do a word search on every word so we get the complete context of the original language...

the Hebrew root word for "die" is מות (mûṯ; pronounced mooth), which means "to die, to kill, to be dead", but we have to look at the form of the word that is used and compare it to where the word is used in the same form elsewhere in scripture to understand the context....

the form of the word die used here is מ֥וֹת, and when we look at other instances of this form used in scripture we can see what context it's used in...

we can see that "die" in this context is used 31 total times throughout Scripture, but it doesn't mean too drop dead on the spot...it's prescriptively used to "assign" the judgement of death...and that's exactly what we see...

in the moment Adam & Eve ate the fruit, they subjected themselves to the judgement of death and disqualified themselves from eternal life...YAH never forbade them to eat from the tree of life, which would have granted them immortality, but their folly resulted in their loss of access to the tree of life, and the garden of eden as a whole, and their eventual physical death...

OP bout to bust hell wide open for likes

 

[Uachet]

Anything written by man that claims to be the absolute truth will have discrepancies in it. It does not matter if the ones who made the Holy book say it is divinely inspired, it will still be chocked full of errors, contradictions, and even falsehoods. Not only that, but over time as it is translated into various languages, it will be full of different interpretations, mistranslations, and sometimes even intentional changes.

 

[Born Rich]

what app is this?

Logos Bible Study App

the free app is a good resource on its own, but you can purchase hella scholarly commentaries, dictionaries, etc. as extensions to reference within the app...