Glenn Loury & John McWhorter speak on standardized testing in the Black community
- Thread starter Take It In Blood
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Piff Perkins
Veteran
Studies are showing that the removal of standardized tests has made things worse for black students because they typically have fewer non-test related things on their academic resume. They stand out less and still end up losing.
Black people are in a hole we will never get out of and it’s time to acknowledge it. With respect of tests I wouldn’t get rid of them. All you can try to do is offer more training and resources. Not that it’s going to work across the board for black people.
It’s over. Marry a black woman, raise a family, and use your economic resources to ensure your children get a good education.
Black people are in a hole we will never get out of and it’s time to acknowledge it. With respect of tests I wouldn’t get rid of them. All you can try to do is offer more training and resources. Not that it’s going to work across the board for black people.
It’s over. Marry a black woman, raise a family, and use your economic resources to ensure your children get a good education.
Gritsngravy
Superstar
The best thing black Americans can do is further their education and obtain higher skill and help their kids be in a better position than what they were in
American education in general is a pay to win system so of course black people will struggle in that system
American education in general is a pay to win system so of course black people will struggle in that system
Didn't I tell yall McWhorter was a bytch ass nikka? 
cite? That sounds like cap.
The Impact of Dropping the SAT
A new research study -- based on simulations using actual student applications at competitive colleges that require the SAT or ACT for admission -- has found that ending the requirement would lead to demonstrable gains in the percentages of black and Latino students, and working class or economically disadvantaged students, who are admitted.
The finding is consistent with what admissions officers have reported at many colleges that have gone SAT-optional. But the basis of this new research goes well beyond the anecdotal information reported by colleges pleased with their shifts. Scholars at Princeton University's Office of Population Research obtained actual admissions data from seven selective colleges that require the SAT or ACT. Using the actual admissions patterns for these colleges, the scholars then ran statistical models showing the impact of either going SAT-optional or adopting what they called the "don't ask, don't tell" approach in which a college says that it won't look at standardized test scores.
The findings appear to confirm what SAT critics have said for years: that reliance on the SAT in college admissions favors applicants who are white and/or wealthier than other applicants. At the private colleges studied (mean SAT score 1405), the percentage of admitted applicants who are black would increase from 8.3 percent to 11.3 percent in the scenario in which more minority students apply and the SAT becomes optional.
In this scenario, if the SAT is not considered at all, the percentage of admitted applicants who are black would go up to 13.8 percent.
And that's how it plays out in real life:
Here's what happened when these colleges ditched SAT scores
Results of Removing Standardized Test Scores from College Admissions
University of California system shows increased minority representation after dropping SATs
Meanwhile, the University of California system announced last month that for fall 2021, without using SAT or ACT scores in admissions, “students from underrepresented racial and ethnic groups comprise 43 percent of admitted California freshmen, the highest proportion of an incoming undergraduate class and the greatest number in UC history at 36,462.”
more proof that mcwhorter is a piece of shyt:
Godless Socialist CEO
Superstar
Bet those scores go up if you untied school funding from property taxes
Does money matter for schools? A new review of research say yes.
Does money matter for schools? A new review of research say yes.
Godless Socialist CEO
Superstar
It's always wild to see you say shyt like this because it's a very leftist (One's I don't agree with) Stance
Family Man
Banned
Well no shyt. It's called preparation.
To be fair it's a quite common stance on the right as well, at least the modern right.
Godless Socialist CEO
Superstar
Tru, but they don’t say the quiet part out loud. Which is they only mean for white people and no one else. Dumb leftists get caught up in that lip service and wanna hold hand with Nazis as if they have similar goals.
I would hope @DEAD7 knows that tho
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I don't think there is a problem with standardized testing in a vacuum. Some people are more good at test taking than others but it's a skill that can be learned, and it's one of the easiest ways to assess a mass volume of people on a sliding scale. I don't think a score can capture the essence of a person's validity but it is a factor.
I think with the SAT for example, what hurts black and Hispanic test takers is that wealthier families can afford to invest more in test prep programs for their kids. In addition, Asian culture (for Chinese, going all the way back to Confucius days) emphasizes long hours of study by their kids in prep for exams to get into specialized high schools and university.
I have a friend (black) who is a single mom. Her daughter a few years ago was in grade 5, and lived a few blocks away from Brooklyn Tech. I asked my friend if she considered signing her kid up for summer schools that prep you for the entrance exam to the school. She said she didn't think the extra prep was necessary, and that they'll look at high schools when it's time. Now the daughter is at a decent charter high school. And I don't think the mom made a wrong choice per say, but between a relative lack of knowledge and a relative lack of interest and a relative lack of resources, and this is informed mostly by my anecdotal experience, the disparity you see in test scores along racial classifications makes sense.
Definitely agree with objective analyses that show that test taking isn't the best objective metric of evaluating a student. I don't know if there is a better way that's practical, given the millions of kids we have in this country. GPA? (But how do you account for differences between schools in terms of quality?)
And in the meantime, if I have kids, they gotta learn how to take the tests, cause the game is the game out here.
I think with the SAT for example, what hurts black and Hispanic test takers is that wealthier families can afford to invest more in test prep programs for their kids. In addition, Asian culture (for Chinese, going all the way back to Confucius days) emphasizes long hours of study by their kids in prep for exams to get into specialized high schools and university.
I have a friend (black) who is a single mom. Her daughter a few years ago was in grade 5, and lived a few blocks away from Brooklyn Tech. I asked my friend if she considered signing her kid up for summer schools that prep you for the entrance exam to the school. She said she didn't think the extra prep was necessary, and that they'll look at high schools when it's time. Now the daughter is at a decent charter high school. And I don't think the mom made a wrong choice per say, but between a relative lack of knowledge and a relative lack of interest and a relative lack of resources, and this is informed mostly by my anecdotal experience, the disparity you see in test scores along racial classifications makes sense.
Definitely agree with objective analyses that show that test taking isn't the best objective metric of evaluating a student. I don't know if there is a better way that's practical, given the millions of kids we have in this country. GPA? (But how do you account for differences between schools in terms of quality?)
And in the meantime, if I have kids, they gotta learn how to take the tests, cause the game is the game out here.
The large majority of the testing gap is not explained by test prep courses. Most of what is impacted by that test prep is on the upper end of the spectrum anyway. If test prep-specific courses were exactly equal the overall issue would still be very similar. There's a reason high-performing schools don't devote hardly any classroom time to test prep.
And focusing on test prep is also a huge problem when it discourages most low-performing students and even many high-performing students from the learning process (because it's generally boring as fukk) and diverts a huge amount of potential learning time from productive activity into pure system-gaming bullshyt.