Glenn Greenwald and Bill Maher debating Islam, US foreign policy, and Muslims
- Thread starter ogc163
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I love Greenwald, and I can see what he's saying but he's dead wrong in a way.
When Russian white kids are bombing marathons because of American foreign policy, what ties them to Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen, etc BUT religion?
These people are from different cultures, ethnicity, languages. Americans aren't bombing Chechnya, Dagestan, etc.. So, these people feel a link to these other regions, even if you believe the US is the aggressor (and they happen to be), that is built upon religion and religious identity.
I have yet to meet one person who can argue against this.
So why do people say that religion is not a fueling motivator in these actions or counteractions?
When Russian white kids are bombing marathons because of American foreign policy, what ties them to Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen, etc BUT religion?
These people are from different cultures, ethnicity, languages. Americans aren't bombing Chechnya, Dagestan, etc.. So, these people feel a link to these other regions, even if you believe the US is the aggressor (and they happen to be), that is built upon religion and religious identity.
I have yet to meet one person who can argue against this.
So why do people say that religion is not a fueling motivator in these actions or counteractions?
USSInsiders
Banned
Greenwald with that ether 
ogc163
Superstar
I don't see at any point where he says the religious aspects/influence are trivial or irrelevant, his main point was that it has to be put into context and that there is a lot more nuance than Maher let's on.
USSInsiders
Banned
These aren't blonde haired, blue eyed Ivan Drago Russians, these are Central/Western Asian people who aren't much different in many ways from people living in places like Tajikistan, Afghanistan, Uzbekistan etc.
Russia and the United States are fighting a "War On Terror" together. The US is sympathetic to Russia's conflicts over there because they see them as combating radical Islam even though it's deeper than that.
Yes, some chechen guerillas are Muslim extremists, but some are also separatists who want independence from Russia
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That is all fine, but are Americans bombing their children and women? That was Greenwald's main point.
The tensions between the US and Russia are at an all time high, and have been for over a decade. They aren't that friendly with one another by any means.
All I'm saying is that these white kids had a motivation to stand up for the abuses against their religion, plain and simple. So religion is a motivating factor.
How many Muslims sought action against the US government when they were dropping bombs in the Balkans to prevent a genocide of Muslims? The US was dropping bombs VERY liberally and there was a multitude of innocent causalities, but not a fukking peep was heard.
Dont get me wrong, I fully understand the reasoning behind standing up for the identity, just don't try to sell me on the bullshyt that this isn't about religion and religious requirements.
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Maher is a zionist idiot who tells people that they should follow what science says but in the same breath will tell people not to vaccinate their children because of a debunked report.
I fully understand why Greenwald did what he did, and I'm a big fan of him, but if you follow him on twitter or read his works, he constantly trivializes the religious motivation of these attackers.
USSInsiders
Banned
Let me be as unequivocal as I can be: I AM NOT DOING THAT WHATSOEVER.
I am simply adding greater context to the situation.
Yes, Russia and the US are cold, but they are similarly united in fighting against radical Islam tense relations or not. Islamic Chechnyans have perpetrated numerous attacks against the Russians.
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Okay friend, so what is the issue?
I'm mainly taking issue with Greenwald's thinking on this. I read his columns and follow him, I agree with him on a lot of issues and he's opened my eyes to somethings as well. I'm just saying that if you read his works, or his back and forth with Sam Harris, he definitely downplays the role of religion. He goes out of his way to do it with Islam. That's my only issue here.
USSInsiders
Banned
There is no issue
I just wanted to add greater context to the culture from which these men were from. Much of their culture IS ethnically similar and similar in language to other Western Asians contrary to what you were suggesting.
I've never heard of this Greenwald dude in my life, but he was correct in this instance as far as adding greater context to the situation. If he pretends radical Islam doesn't exist or has nothing to do with these conflicts, then that's his bed and he has to sleep in it.
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There is no issue
I just wanted to add greater context to the culture from which these men were from. Much of their culture IS ethnically similar and similar in language to other Western Asians contrary to what you were suggesting.
I've never heard of this Greenwald dude in my life, but he was correct in this instance as far as adding greater context to the situation. If he pretends radical Islam doesn't exist or has nothing to do with these conflicts, then that's his bed and he has to sleep in it.
Fair enough, but we'll see on the bold. I can use other examples:
Tell me what this cracker has in common with people being bombed on another continent aside from religion?
But I respect the context you are providing. It is important.
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Are you asking me?
USSInsiders
Banned
Fair enough, but we'll see on the bold. I can use other examples:
Tell me what this cracker has in common with people being bombed on another continent aside from religion?
But I respect the context you are providing. It is important.
Absolutely nothing.