Gay Muslims keep religion and sexuality separate

[dontspeakmuch]

Different sects and schools of thought vary though, even time changes opinions. Tea and coffee were hard drugs at one point in islam, then they were used by scholars to stay awake during lectures and long prayers and qwel libido. Weed and hash were once widely accepted and now both are looked down upon. Alot of hadiths have been thrown out with modern science, this is why I mostly stick to Quran and not hadiths and scholars opinions.

 

[emoney]

Gay muslim. Just sounds like some cac terms to divide islam and create agents they can use to infiltrate arab nations by promising some kind of asylum for fags if they do a good job for the white man.

There's always been gay Muslims, contrary to what the hardest core Muslims will want you to believe.

 

[emoney]

Dont see how you can be a moist muslim when the book says you should be burned and stoned.

The book can say whatever it likes. We all know homosexuality exists among all people and religious groups. It's life.

 

[Elle Driver]

I'm not sure what you mean by ones Islam, but in Islam there is a great sin called Zina. this means sex outside of marriage. Some say there is zina of the hands (masturbation) and zina of the eyes(looking an imagining) and zina of the mind(fantasizing) but i dont believe these are mentioned in the quran as equal to the sexual act, although they are discouraged. Anyway, any thought of sex outside of marriage should be ignored and not acted on but a hetero desire may be fulfilled through marriage in this life and in the next, whereas a homo desire is never to be fulfilled in this life or the next. So if you believe in Zina of the eyes and mind then letting your mind run free about homo stuff is as bad as doing it but from what i've read in the Quran and not from scholars, the desire is different from the act when concerning women, so it must be concerning men. Its just that that desire (homo) is never to be fulfilled, so a gay muslim who never stops being gay would be engaged in constant jihad (holy war) with himself. If they succumb and go full homo then they will prolly taste the fire but if they wait it out and dont do gay stuf, their reward in heaven will be greater than someone who was hetero and fulfilled their desires and didnt have more challenges. Theres more factors though. Why ask?

As far as I know, shirk is the only thing that will nullify one's Islam.

I know about desires, and I'm pretty sure that if you intend to do something but don't do it, it's not considered a sin. But if you intend to do a good act and carry it out, then you reap rewards from God.

Clearly you misunderstood my question tho because according to your answer one could say that if a gay man never entered into a sexual relationship with another man, then he is still Muslim. Would you say that if he commits zina with a woman that it's still the same sin?

 

[Crakface]

The book can say whatever it likes. We all know homosexuality exists among all people and religious groups. It's life.

Yea, like homicide.

 

[dontspeakmuch]

As far as I know, shirk is the only thing that will nullify one's Islam.

I know about desires, and I'm pretty sure that if you intend to do something but don't do it, it's not considered a sin. But if you intend to do a good act and carry it out, then you reap rewards from God.

Clearly you misunderstood my question tho because according to your answer one could say that if a gay man never entered into a sexual relationship with another man, then he is still Muslim. Would you say that if he commits zina with a woman that it's still the same sin?

Just to clarify, by nullify ones islam, do you mean that the act takes you out of the fold of islam? Shirk will do this and Ive also heard apostasy will do this. Ive also heard that Allah does not even look at sodomites. I heard that and read something similar in Quran I believe (almost sure but I wouldnt want to lie on the Quran). Also, are you asking if I believe that zina with a woman is the same sin as zina with a man? If so, I think that there is evidence to make a case for yes and no, especially if you take into consideration scholars opinions. Zina is defined as sex outside of that which your right hand posseses and sex with a woman you havent married or do not own as a slave with consent and sex with a man will fall under this category. However, it is possible for you to marry a woman or recieve consent, but you may never marry same sex, sodomy is forbidden, and so sex having to do with the anus and other uncleanly practices. So if two men do that, i think they may be charged with zina, sodomy, and haram sex practices. I could be wrong though and Im willing to learn.

 

[Elle Driver]

Just to clarify, by nullify ones islam, do you mean that the act takes you out of the fold of islam? Shirk will do this and Ive also heard apostasy will do this. Ive also heard that Allah does not even look at sodomites. I heard that and read something similar in Quran I believe (almost sure but I wouldnt want to lie on the Quran). Also, are you asking if I believe that zina with a woman is the same sin as zina with a man? If so, I think that there is evidence to make a case for yes and no, especially if you take into consideration scholars opinions. Zina is defined as sex outside of that which your right hand posseses and sex with a woman you havent married or do not own as a slave with consent and sex with a man will fall under this category. However, it is possible for you to marry a woman or recieve consent, but you may never marry same sex, sodomy is forbidden, and so sex having to do with the anus and other uncleanly practices. So if two men do that, i think they may be charged with zina, sodomy, and haram sex practices. I could be wrong though and Im willing to learn.

Can you show me the verses?

 

[dontspeakmuch]

Can you show me the verses?

about what specifically

 

[Elle Driver]

about what specifically

Just to clarify, by nullify ones islam, do you mean that the act takes you out of the fold of islam? Shirk will do this and Ive also heard apostasy will do this. Ive also heard that Allah does not even look at sodomites. I heard that and read something similar in Quran I believe (almost sure but I wouldnt want to lie on the Quran). Also, are you asking if I believe that zina with a woman is the same sin as zina with a man? If so, I think that there is evidence to make a case for yes and no, especially if you take into consideration scholars opinions. Zina is defined as sex outside of that which your right hand posseses and sex with a woman you havent married or do not own as a slave with consent and sex with a man will fall under this category. However, it is possible for you to marry a woman or recieve consent, but you may never marry same sex, sodomy is forbidden, and so sex having to do with the anus and other uncleanly practices. So if two men do that, i think they may be charged with zina, sodomy, and haram sex practices. I could be wrong though and Im willing to learn.

Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't that require 4 witnesses?

What I'm confused about is whether or not the act of sodomy is forbidden, or homosexuality itself.

 

[noon]

way to quote a particular portion of my post to back up your own prejudices.

The full context of your quote is still there for all to see and my comment remains completely relevant. Nice try.

 

[dontspeakmuch]

The full context of your quote is still there for all to see and my comment remains completely relevant. Nice try.

You quoted a part of my post to support your prejudices the same way a fanatic quotes religion to support theirs. My entire post is available the same way religious books are available.

 

[dontspeakmuch]

Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't that require 4 witnesses?

What I'm confused about is whether or not the act of sodomy is forbidden, or homosexuality itself.

to punish someone on earth i need 4 reputable male witnesses, yes. But if you get away with it here Allah will still pinish you correct? This is why it is said that yje only woman stoned for Zina during prophets time actually turnef herself in. Nobody knew wut she did bit she wanted to be punished here so Allah wouldnt punish her. From whqt ive read and speeches, sodomy is sin and the desire isnt as long as it is not dwelled upon and fantasized about. Ill give you verses later.

 

[dontspeakmuch]

I dont think any thought is forbidden or automatic sin, bad thoughts like sexual, gay, violence, theft and blasphemy are sins if you allow them to persist and you let yourself continues the thought. Allahs vision is not superficial, he sees thought action and intention.

 

[noon]

You quoted a part of my post to support your prejudices the same way a fanatic quotes religion to support theirs. My entire post is available the same way religious books are available.

I didn't "interpret" your words to mean what I want them to mean though. Again, nice try.