From global warming to fluoride: why do people deny science?

[Type Username Here]

Nothing unless you intake it at a higher concentration of something like 3-4 mg/L or so and it is good for your teeth.

Most countries in Europe have experienced substantial declines in cavities without the use of water fluoridation. For example, in Finland and Germany, tooth decay rates remained stable or continued to decline after water fluoridation stopped. Fluoridation may be useful in the U.S. because unlike most European countries, the U.S. does not have school-based dental care, many children do not visit a dentist regularly, and for many U.S. children water fluoridation is the prime source of exposure to fluoride. The effectiveness of water fluoridation can vary according to circumstances such as whether preventive dental care is free to all children.

Netherlands
Water was fluoridated in large parts of the Netherlands from 1960 to 1973, when the High Council of The Netherlands declared fluoridation of drinking water unauthorized.Dutch authorities had no legal basis adding chemicals to drinking water if they will not improve the safety as such. Drinking water has not been fluoridated in any part of the Netherlands since 1973.

In 1952, Norrköping in Sweden became one of the first cities in Europe to fluoridate its water supply. It was declared illegal by the Supreme Administrative Court of Sweden in 1961, re-legalized in 1962 and finally prohibited by the parliament in 1971, after considerable debate. The parliament majority said that there were other and better ways of reducing tooth decay than water fluoridation. Four cities received permission to fluoridate tap water when it was legal. An official commission was formed, which published its final report in 1981. They recommended other ways of reducing tooth decay (improving food and oral hygiene habits) instead of fluoridating tap water. They also found that many people found fluoridation to impinge upon personal liberty/freedom of choice by forcing them to be medicated, and that the long-term effects of fluoridation were insufficiently acknowledged. They also lacked a proper study on the effects of fluoridation on formula-fed infants.

Not arguing that it doesn't help with decay, but there are better ways to address this issue in the modern day.

 

[Broke Wave]

rofl @ this thread flopping... i am from this day henceforth refusing to post in any thread about religion/gays/Afrocentrism/conspiracies or anything that will not lead to a fruitful discussion

 

[Dusty Bake Activate]

Not arguing that it doesn't help with decay, but there are better ways to address this issue in the modern day.

Western European nations have WAY better dental care and prevention then here. Everyone there gets regular dental checkups and preventative visits when they're children.

Until we get a humane 21st century system of dental care here, let the fluoride flow.

 

[acri1]

Not arguing that it doesn't help with decay, but there are better ways to address this issue in the modern day.

The fact(s) that

1. Some other countries decided to stop fluoridating water and tooth decay rates still went down

2. Some people in other countries are paranoid and feel that water fluoridation "violates" them somehow

3. Preventative dental care could be better in the U.S.


...none of those have anything to do with water fluoridation being harmful and/or a bad idea. In a perfect world everybody would go to the dentist twice a year and have excellent dental hygiene, and cavities would be rare anyway. In the real world, that's not the case (I haven't been in several years myself ), and water fluoridation still prevents cavities.

rofl @ this thread flopping... i am from this day henceforth refusing to post in any thread about religion/gays/Afrocentrism/conspiracies or anything that will not lead to a fruitful discussion

Personally I think I'm just gonna give in and start posting nothing but conspiracy theory/gay marriage/Obama threads so I can start going triple plat like these other cats.

 

[Type Username Here]

The fact(s) that

1. Some other countries decided to stop fluoridating water and tooth decay rates still went down

2. Some people in other countries are paranoid and feel that water fluoridation "violates" them somehow

3. Preventative dental care could be better in the U.S.


...none of those have anything to do with water fluoridation being harmful and/or a bad idea. In a perfect world everybody would go to the dentist twice a year and have excellent dental hygiene, and cavities would be rare anyway. In the real world, that's not the case (I haven't been in several years myself ), and water fluoridation still prevents cavities.

I never said any of those things you implied in your last paragraph. I'm just saying there are betters ways to address the issue and there is. Cavities is only one problem in dental care, we need to move to a solution which will address as many issues as possible and this is a comprehensive system and teaching people proper nutrition and hygiene.

at the US government adding flouride to water to prevent cavities while subsidizing corn and HFCS.

 

[2Quik4UHoes]

Human beings are truly retarded. The only thing between us and solving this and other issues is politics...just think about that. For all our intelligence we're no different from a lion or tiger, I wonder if our intellect will ever reach a point where we think in terms of collective preservation as oppose to survival of the fittest of self preservation type shyt.

But whatever, who cares about fukkin up the only place we can live when gays can get married in more states than they could last year?

 

[ineedsleep212]

*subs*

 

[Rice N Beans]

I would rather not have fluoridation but unfortunately unless I'm collecting rainwater and filtering it I don't see another way.

 

[Blackking]

I wonder if our intellect will ever reach a point where we think in terms of collective preservation as oppose to survival of the fittest of self preservation type shyt.

A scientist might say no.

And science was used to justify putting fluoride in the water. To say otherwise is like saying Christianity didn't justify manifest destiny.

This thread is aight. Nothing in the OP was too far off, but realistically it's not that people deny science.. it's that people are human. Humans go with whatever evidence fits their agenda. People do use science if it supports their purpose or goal.

This thread flopped because the OP was a long read. It's retarded to - not make a few points then add a link. Can't we just be honest about that? Plus it wasn't talking about anti-religion or gays.

Also, there isn't a nation wide anti-science movement in America. lol, where do you people live. I guarantee most of you don't know anyone who is anti science... or who is on a crusade against science. That is some paranoid shyt to even consider. Because there are frindge groups amounting to less than .5% of the population that might not like science..... we feel confident in using terms like "Denialism". That's stupid. Sure many people have a distrust of some mainstream scientific proclamations.... but most reasonable or proven things are considered and taught in school.

lol, I'm forgetting that you all are the same people who believe that everyone is against you because youre atheist and your life is being oppressed.

 

[OneManGang]

Nothing is black and white when talking about fluorine in the water supplies. I can find a plethora of experts on the matter that can intellectually make effective cases for both sides of the spectrum. Knowing what I know about fluorine, I can safely say that in high doses, it WILL kill you. F- in your stomach will form the dangerous acid hydrofluoric acid. Also, fluoride ions sequester calcium very effectively which can lead to loss of bone density among other more serious things like interfering with calcium channels in muscles which will kill you by paralysis and respiratory or cardiac failure.

Having said all that, the EPA does manage the concentration of fluoride AND other toxins in the water supplies. This is also why you shouldnt swallow toothpaste! So do i have a problem with fluoride in the water? Not really because I know it will take a large dose to kill me. Over time, maybe but then again, you have way more serious things to worry about than a slow death from fluoride ions over time. If you are really concerned, a quick google search will show you ways to de-fluorinate your water.

 

[OsO]

Nothing is black and white when talking about fluorine in the water supplies. I can find a plethora of experts on the matter that can intellectually make effective cases for both sides of the spectrum. Knowing what I know about fluorine, I can safely say that in high doses, it WILL kill you. F- in your stomach will form the dangerous acid hydrofluoric acid. Also, fluoride ions sequester calcium very effectively which can lead to loss of bone density among other more serious things like interfering with calcium channels in muscles which will kill you by paralysis and respiratory or cardiac failure.

Having said all that, the EPA does manage the concentration of fluoride AND other toxins in the water supplies. This is also why you shouldnt swallow toothpaste! So do i have a problem with fluoride in the water? Not really because I know it will take a large dose to kill me. Over time, maybe but then again, you have way more serious things to worry about than a slow death from fluoride ions over time. If you are really concerned, a quick google search will show you ways to de-fluorinate your water.

a couple things...

1) given what you said about sodium fluoride and its effects on the human body, doesn't it seem the potential cons outweigh the potential pros?

we apply fluoride protection to our teeth everyday by brushing them, we dont need the "extra" fluoride in the water, so to me it doesn't seem like it's worth the health risk. ESPECIALLY when the majority of the fluoride in question is being SWALLOWED (which you stated was most harmful to humans) as opposed to being applied externally to the teeth.

imo extra protection against cavities is not a valuable enough benefit to offset the negative health risks. sodium fluoride is used to kill insects so i think there are better options if we want to add things to our water supply, and the bottom line is there are too many unknowns to even chance it.

2) also when thinking about dosage you've come into contact with, think about the fact we've had multiple daily exposures, everyday of our lives to fluoridated water, both internally and externally. when we drink from the faucet, when we cook our food, when we wash our hands, when we take a shower... we are absorbing the sodium fluoride multiple times daily in multiple ways...and who is tracking that? who is monitoring people's fluoride intake over time?

also it's about more than just suffering from fluoride intake, its about extreme fluoride intake in conjunction with all the other toxins we are exposed to on a daily basis. toxins from the air, toxins in the food, toxins caused physiologically by our negative thoughts and emotions... all of these combine to take a toll on the body. why add the toxicity of fluoridated water to the scenario? especially when the health benefits are so minimal and the potential health risks so great? it defies common sense.

3) if your best response is:

So do i have a problem with fluoride in the water? Not really because I know it will take a large dose to kill me. Over time, maybe but then again, you have way more serious things to worry about than a slow death from fluoride ions over time.

you have pretty low expectations for our government.

4) if fluoridated water is not recommended for infants and pregnant women because its dangerous, that alone is enough of a reason for me to resist water fluoridation.

it's not safe for my pregnant wife and child...but it helps protect against cavities

this simple fact alone should merit fluoride not being in our water supply, and i think the fact some people dont see this truth as self evident is totally insane.

Not arguing that it doesn't help with decay, but there are better ways to address this issue in the modern day.

yea, it's called toothpaste.

at the US government adding flouride to water to prevent cavities while subsidizing corn and HFCS.

 

[Blackking]

If we don't have poisonous food, water, and lifestyles.. how can the billion dollar medical/ pharmaceutical industry continue to flourish?

The wealthiest nation in Africa is about 6 or 7 billion dollars poorer than the American pharmaceutical industry alone. conservative estimate. There lobbying power in politics increases every year by the millions.. it's all tied together.

 

[88m3]

If we don't have poisonous food, water, and lifestyles.. how can the billion dollar medical/ pharmaceutical industry continue to flourish?

The wealthiest nation in Africa is about 6 or 7 billion dollars poorer than the American pharmaceutical industry alone. conservative estimate. There lobbying power in politics increases every year by the millions.. it's all tied together.

MOVE TO CHINA, BROTHER!

 

[Blackking]

MOVE TO CHINA, BROTHER!

i didn't mean to say pharma alone.. i meant in combination with insurance and medical.


And moving to China won't help our situation. plus i don't really like Asian girls.

 

[88m3]

i didn't mean to say pharma alone.. i meant in combination with insurance and medical.


And moving to China won't help our situation. plus i don't really like Asian girls.

I wish we nationalized the whole lot.


My point was China doesn't really regulate any of the stuff you ticked off. I know which I prefer.