Turbografx16
Pro
For real, Kemi Seba is one of the most influential activists in the French-speaking sphere.
:
Without French it couldn't communicate easily with the rest of the diaspora.
For real, Kemi Seba is one of the most influential activists in the French-speaking sphere.
:
Without French it couldn't communicate easily with the rest of the diaspora.
loyola llothta
☭☭☭
fukk the french and everything they about
@Intruder v3.0 have you heard about French's Marshall plan for Haiti
@Intruder v3.0 have you heard about French's Marshall plan for Haiti
There is a new one? There has always be one since I was little. Can't be worst than Americans plan
mbewane
Knicks: 93 til infinity
It is and indeed you are right, the future of french language is in Africa. The Organisation internationale de la Francophonie officially recognizes this, and the vast majority of its budget is dedicated to projects in Africa.
The discussion about french in Africa is always two-fold : on one hand it is the language of the colonizer, on the other it serves as a lingua franca among Africans and allows access to the rest of the world. In short, there's positive aspects as well as negative aspects to it. That's basically what the founders of La Francophonie (who were not French) and the intellectuals of the "negritude" movement said : we cannot erase the fact that we were colonized, but we can use this language for our own benefit. The trick is to have a good balance : even though I myself unfortunately do not speak any language from Central African Republic, it is crucial that local languages be taught. The only issue is that in a country like Cameroon, you have more than 200 languages. Which one should be chosen? The use of another language (in this case, French and English) allows to circumvent that question in a way. But the point stands : local languages should be taught and promoted, and in my opinion it should be done next to French or English (or Portuguese or Arabic). That's also what the Francophonie has understood and is now doing. For example Senegal introduced a couple years ago a translation system in the Parliament to make sure that everyone can speak their own language, even though french stays one of the official language. IMO that's the way to go.
And indeed, french (and I guess english, but have less info about that) is no longer a "foreign" language for a large number of Africans born in Africa and living in Africa : it has become a local language, albeit one not necessarily spoken by all in any given country (which is the case of a lot of countries where there are different local languages). It has local variations, french in CAR is not the same in Ivory Coast, so it is constantly evolving to "fit" with the local populations. And yeah obviously you have all the Africans born in France, Belgium or Canada who often do not speak languages from the country their parents came from, so french is the bridge to reconnect.
It is true that language has a big impact on how you think, which concepts you use, etc...so that for me is precisely a reason to learn MORE languages, not less. Opens up the mind.
Obviously the poster-child for the anti-french movement is Kagame, but lest we forget that is mainly due to political reasons. And he moved from french to english, which is another european language.
As a strong supporter of multilingualism, I see no positive in deciding to speak one LESS language. That's hustling backwards. Whether or not you want to deal with France as a country, speaking another language is always a net positive, it depends on how you as a country decide to use it. And obviously the francophone world outside of Africa is not only France, you also have Belgium and Canada (Québec) as well as the Caribbean countries.
The discussion about french in Africa is always two-fold : on one hand it is the language of the colonizer, on the other it serves as a lingua franca among Africans and allows access to the rest of the world. In short, there's positive aspects as well as negative aspects to it. That's basically what the founders of La Francophonie (who were not French) and the intellectuals of the "negritude" movement said : we cannot erase the fact that we were colonized, but we can use this language for our own benefit. The trick is to have a good balance : even though I myself unfortunately do not speak any language from Central African Republic, it is crucial that local languages be taught. The only issue is that in a country like Cameroon, you have more than 200 languages. Which one should be chosen? The use of another language (in this case, French and English) allows to circumvent that question in a way. But the point stands : local languages should be taught and promoted, and in my opinion it should be done next to French or English (or Portuguese or Arabic). That's also what the Francophonie has understood and is now doing. For example Senegal introduced a couple years ago a translation system in the Parliament to make sure that everyone can speak their own language, even though french stays one of the official language. IMO that's the way to go.
And indeed, french (and I guess english, but have less info about that) is no longer a "foreign" language for a large number of Africans born in Africa and living in Africa : it has become a local language, albeit one not necessarily spoken by all in any given country (which is the case of a lot of countries where there are different local languages). It has local variations, french in CAR is not the same in Ivory Coast, so it is constantly evolving to "fit" with the local populations. And yeah obviously you have all the Africans born in France, Belgium or Canada who often do not speak languages from the country their parents came from, so french is the bridge to reconnect.
It is true that language has a big impact on how you think, which concepts you use, etc...so that for me is precisely a reason to learn MORE languages, not less. Opens up the mind.
Obviously the poster-child for the anti-french movement is Kagame, but lest we forget that is mainly due to political reasons. And he moved from french to english, which is another european language.
As a strong supporter of multilingualism, I see no positive in deciding to speak one LESS language. That's hustling backwards. Whether or not you want to deal with France as a country, speaking another language is always a net positive, it depends on how you as a country decide to use it. And obviously the francophone world outside of Africa is not only France, you also have Belgium and Canada (Québec) as well as the Caribbean countries.
Trajan
Veteran
I think he sees the way in which the wind is blowing. English has become the international language and dealing with anyone from America to India, China and Kenya means English is crucial. The French obviously do not like this and are resentful of the preeminence of the English language. Beyond the colonial connotations, inter-African trade is poor and so having French as the official language is probably not as useful at the moment for Rwanda if it is not doing much business with French West Africa.
I do agree with you that local languages should be preserved. Especially in Africa where there is not much written material in indigenous languages. That means once the oral speakers die off it's a wrap.
Good response
There is no reason why people should reject a USEFUL language in basis that it is the colonializer's langugage. While I understand the aversion , it is impractical and a sentiment based mostly on symbolism not smh psychological or linguistic reasons . The future of the French language is in the hands of Africans and the diaspora and can be a useful tool for cultural, political, and economic connections between the diaspora and francophone Africa.
Keep in mind (to everyone) I've said nothing about using French over any language nor did I say anything about suppression of any languages
mbewane
Knicks: 93 til infinity
Yeah for sure, I talked about Kagame because he was brought up as someone dismissing french, which is true, but he did it in favor of ANOTHER foreign language. And also the fact that in the region, the only francophone countries are DRC and Burundi : trade with Burundi doesn't depend on french imo and we all know the conflictual situation with DRC. So really Rwanda has to look east, where english is more spoken than french. But the reasons he has to go on with english (which are the correct ones you state) can be used at the same level on an intra-Africa level, since even though that trade is not as big as it should be it will be even lower if people no longer use the common language they already have. It's interesting because for example Ghana and Nigeria, who have francophone countries as neighbours, have shown interest in increasing the knowledge of french precisely for this reason, trade.
Yeah it also comes from the old idea that we have a zero-sum brain, that somehow you have a "limited" space for languages in your brain, which is an outdated idea that has been disproved but still lingers. I'm half-Belgian, so I know the dutch-speaking Flemish did not totally do away with french when they fought for their cultural autonomy. Because they correctly understood that yes speaking your own language (dutch, in this case) is crucial, but speaking other languages is crucial too, even more so when you're a small cultural/linguistic entity. So they kept french (that they already had) and TONS of them are bi or trilingual (with english) now. So they can speak their own language amongst themselves, have a cultural/intellectuial life in dutch, etc...and use french or english for trade with the world. Win-win.
@mbewane i agree . I was visiting family in Denmark, and in their schools they learn English And German in addition to speak their native Danish. French is also a popular language. They do do because their survival as a nation depends on their ability to trade with other nations (UK and Germany mostly)
My moms side if the family is multilingual (most speak at least three languages) so I definitely encourage foreign language acquisition and that is something i an personally working on
To stay a little more in topic , Englisg French and Portuguese will be the languages of the diaspora . And languages like Swahili, Lingala, Arabic, etc will be important as well
My moms side if the family is multilingual (most speak at least three languages) so I definitely encourage foreign language acquisition and that is something i an personally working on
To stay a little more in topic , Englisg French and Portuguese will be the languages of the diaspora . And languages like Swahili, Lingala, Arabic, etc will be important as well
theworldismine13
God Emperor of SOHH
the more languages the better, but overall kagame is right, english is the language of business, science and technology so its the way to go for black people
http://www.newtimes.co.rw/section/article/2015-11-11/194295/
http://www.newtimes.co.rw/section/article/2015-11-11/194295/
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fukk French.
True about English, by the reality is not every person in every nation is going to learn English
it's not going anywhere
mbewane
Knicks: 93 til infinity
T'es vener' ou bien?
This topic = 
Taking some kinda glee in french being mainly spoken in Africa
Advocating french as a lingua-franca in Africa
Practical stand point
a. I'd go with the further spreading of Swahili as a base to be used as a lingua-franca for intra-African communication local languages could be added on top of that base as useful.
b. I'd go with a given set of cross boarder regional languages to teach in schools. Focusing on the one(s) indigenous to the child's area.
(admittedly)Idealistic stand point
I'd go with the current project endorsed by cheikh anta diop. Which is proposition of the resurrection of Mdu ntr to be used as a lingua-franca for intra-African communication. Similar to how Israeli's resurrected the Hebrew language and taught it in schools to use it as a lingua-franca for isreali communication
(rkty Amen-Jones is the person who instructs me in learning Mdu ntr and has spoken in class about the contemporary efforts to resurrect mdu ntr as a lingua-franca)
There are three fundamental issues I have also.
c. nuclear family - delineating the mother ,father, children
b. extended family - delineating the grand parents, brothers, sisters, wife, husband, cousins, nieces, nephews, even family friends ....maybe even ancestors.
The phenomena described or the way people conceive of similar phenomena is broken down and encapsulated in the language. When you use someone elses language you are adopting their world view which leads to the other two problems of "semantic traps" and "epistemological traps".
2. Semantic Trap - This is similar to the notion of a thing being "lost/added in translation".
Easy example:
A slave is someone you pay money for and force to work for you under threat of death.
An adoptee is someone you pay money for and lives with you as your biological child would.
Trap = Both the slave and the adoptee are acquired with money so an adoptee is a slave also.
You can't take one element that is the same in both cases and say they are completely the same because one element is the same. The thing is when you use someone elses language to communicate how your culture brakes down reality samantic traps happen all the time. This happens because the translation is built on what word in the target language is "close enough" to the native concept.
3. Epistemological Trap - This happens when the only way you know to think of/describe a thing is through a given language/worldview.
Trap = Both the slave and the adoptee are acquired with money so an adoptee is a slave also(because I know of no other concept but "slave" to compare "adoptee" to).
Epistemological Traps are easier to dodge though. All you simply need to know are multiple languages/worldviews.
Conclusion:
While I have no general issue with knowing multiple languages and endorse learning as many as needed(especially of people you do business with)
The idea of french or any European language being used as a lingua-franca for intra-African communication is politically obscene Now to the extent that it's currently necessary so be it. But the goal politically, should be actively working to move away from that as quick as possible.
That said the OP said they are simply thinking out loud ...and honestly there is nothing wrong with that
Taking some kinda glee in french being mainly spoken in Africa
Advocating french as a lingua-franca in Africa
Practical stand point
a. I'd go with the further spreading of Swahili as a base to be used as a lingua-franca for intra-African communication local languages could be added on top of that base as useful.
b. I'd go with a given set of cross boarder regional languages to teach in schools. Focusing on the one(s) indigenous to the child's area.
(admittedly)Idealistic stand point
I'd go with the current project endorsed by cheikh anta diop. Which is proposition of the resurrection of Mdu ntr to be used as a lingua-franca for intra-African communication. Similar to how Israeli's resurrected the Hebrew language and taught it in schools to use it as a lingua-franca for isreali communication
(rkty Amen-Jones is the person who instructs me in learning Mdu ntr and has spoken in class about the contemporary efforts to resurrect mdu ntr as a lingua-franca)
There are three fundamental issues I have also.
1. language embeds the way that a people breakdown the world and describe their reality. This goes from mundane things like
a. concert - traditionally delineating people sitting quietly while the musicians play music
b. party - delineating people dancing and singing along while the musicians play music
a. concert - traditionally delineating people sitting quietly while the musicians play music
b. party - delineating people dancing and singing along while the musicians play music
to more complex things like...
c. nuclear family - delineating the mother ,father, children
b. extended family - delineating the grand parents, brothers, sisters, wife, husband, cousins, nieces, nephews, even family friends ....maybe even ancestors.
The phenomena described or the way people conceive of similar phenomena is broken down and encapsulated in the language. When you use someone elses language you are adopting their world view which leads to the other two problems of "semantic traps" and "epistemological traps".
2. Semantic Trap - This is similar to the notion of a thing being "lost/added in translation".
Easy example:
A slave is someone you pay money for and force to work for you under threat of death.
An adoptee is someone you pay money for and lives with you as your biological child would.
Trap = Both the slave and the adoptee are acquired with money so an adoptee is a slave also.
You can't take one element that is the same in both cases and say they are completely the same because one element is the same. The thing is when you use someone elses language to communicate how your culture brakes down reality samantic traps happen all the time. This happens because the translation is built on what word in the target language is "close enough" to the native concept.
3. Epistemological Trap - This happens when the only way you know to think of/describe a thing is through a given language/worldview.
Trap = Both the slave and the adoptee are acquired with money so an adoptee is a slave also(because I know of no other concept but "slave" to compare "adoptee" to).
Epistemological Traps are easier to dodge though. All you simply need to know are multiple languages/worldviews.
Conclusion:
While I have no general issue with knowing multiple languages and endorse learning as many as needed(especially of people you do business with)
The idea of french or any European language being used as a lingua-franca for intra-African communication is politically obscene Now to the extent that it's currently necessary so be it. But the goal politically, should be actively working to move away from that as quick as possible. That said the OP said they are simply thinking out loud ...and honestly there is nothing wrong with that
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