Free Kartel...Gaza Mi Still Seh (Official Vybz Kartel Appreciation Thread)

[Isaiah Bradley]

Where has Kartel promoted self/community destruction outside of the booth? Selling liquor & cake soap? You've never heard rappers selling porn/liquor/weed/etc? You've never seen niccas promote their in-booth image to maintain credibility? Come on now? Lil B on Twitter retweeting girls calling themselves bytches in offers for sex for him...word? I never said that all rappers do it, but there are way too many cases where it happens and we don't discuss it because we know what it is

But you never said some rappers, you generalized with the term rappers. So implicitly suggesting most

So Kartel in interviews talmbowt bleaching skin is cool is equivalent to Lil B calling HIMSELF a Bytch?

The mere fact you saying "well well they did it, so why he can't" is lame as fawk. Thus why a fake stereotype nikka like Ross could be successful because folks don't apply any consistent standards for an artist to live by

I made an incomplete list of popular rappers who don't do what Kartel do (outtah booth, promotion of self and community destruction), so that tawk of trying to maintain in-booth image credibility is a BS excuse that is used when nikkas want to deflect responsibility, fans want to blindly fight for their fav artist, and when crew members of a rapper are afraid to point out inconsistent behavior

 

[JMurder]

But you never said some rappers, you generalized with the term rappers. So implicitly suggesting most

So Kartel in interviews talmbowt bleaching skin is cool is equivalent to Lil B calling HIMSELF a Bytch?

"The same thing can be said about the hundreds of rappers and/or R&B singers you've listened to throughout your life. " - JMurder
It could be most I don't know...but I wanna focus more on your last part. If your main gripe is about bleaching of the skin then I kind of understand. He's never promoted bleaching of the skin as anti-black or anything of the sort though. He's always said it was more a statement against the social norms in a culture where people used to die for anything controversial such as that. He's already compared it to skin piercing, tattoos, and homosexuality as things that people used to be violently against in the past that should be socially acceptable in JA. Hopefully, he's able to go back to his old skin color as a way to show that it's not a black or white thing. Him selling cake soap is the equivalent of Jay-Z & Diddy selling liquor knowing it's one of the evils in hood society...it's a business move that they try to make up for by donating to schools and shyt.

The mere fact you saying "well well they did it, so why he can't" is lame as fawk. Thus why a fake stereotype nikka like Ross could be successful because folks don't apply any consistent standards for an artist to live by

I didn't say "well they did it, so why he can't." I said "we either condemn them all for it or we condemn none of them for it." As far as me and my children, if I catch them listening to this type of music I'm going to make sure I have a sincere conversation about what is right and wrong with what they're listening to. I can only hope other parents attempt to take a similar responsibility with their children instead of attempting to blame artists

I made an incomplete list of popular rappers who don't do what Kartel do (outtah booth, promotion of self and community destruction), so that tawk of trying to maintain in-booth image credibility is a BS excuse that is used when nikkas want to deflect responsibility, fans want to blindly fight for their fav artist, and when crew members of a rapper are afraid to point out inconsistent behavior

You made an incomplete list yes, but when I said "you've never seen niccas promote their in-booth image to maintain credibility" that applies to a couple of ppl on that very list. But that's a little off-topic now that I know you're referring directly to the bleaching/cake soap shyt. We don't really have an argument here

 

[Isaiah Bradley]

"The same thing can be said about the hundreds of rappers and/or R&B singers you've listened to throughout your life. " - JMurder
It could be most I don't know...but I wanna focus more on your last part. If your main gripe is about bleaching of the skin then I kind of understand. He's never promoted bleaching of the skin as anti-black or anything of the sort though. He's always said it was more a statement against the social norms in a culture where people used to die for anything controversial such as that. He's already compared it to skin piercing, tattoos, and homosexuality as things that people used to be violently against in the past that should be socially acceptable in JA. Hopefully, he's able to go back to his old skin color as a way to show that it's not a black or white thing. Him selling cake soap is the equivalent of Jay-Z & Diddy selling liquor knowing it's one of the evils in hood society...it's a business move that they try to make up for by donating to schools and shyt.

Please don't try to play word games, we know what you were trying to suggest when you mentioned hundred of rappers. Don't try to add a technicality about "I said rappers you heard" BS

questions for clarification?

We are to ignore the self hate practice / reasons for bleaching that is common among all non-whites, so an artist who claims to be sending a positive message, could profit from those suffering from self hate, so he could "donate" to schools?

Hov & Diddy promoting liquor is a business move in hood society?

Bleaching skin is a form of expression like a tattoo and piercing?

I didn't say "well they did it, so why he can't." I said "we either condemn them all for it or we condemn none of them for it." As far as me and my children, if I catch them listening to this type of music I'm going to make sure I have a sincere conversation about what is right and wrong with what they're listening to. I can only hope other parents attempt to take a similar responsibility with their children instead of attempting to blame artists

So those who have the spot light, and chooses to promote stereotype and/or self-destructive behavior for the sole purpose of profit has no responsibility to that community that they are being affected by the promotion of stereotype and/or self-destructive behavior? It's the parents fault?

You made an incomplete list yes, but when I said "you've never seen niccas promote their in-booth image to maintain credibility" that applies to a couple of ppl on that very list. But that's a little off-topic now that I know you're referring directly to the bleaching/cake soap shyt. We don't really have an argument here

The list I made was to point out that you have options as a rapper ,as an entertainer, on subject matter and what you wanna promote when you're outtah the booth. Taking the short cut to fame by living up to stereotype and profiting is a selfish, lame move and shouldn't be tolerated

But it's tolerated because most fans don't want to be seen as not being "cool" and hip, so they conveniently
and lazily go along with whatever the media/"in" crowd says is in. Regardless of whether they respect hip hop or not.

Same for Kartel, he chose to do what it takes to keep the spot like on him, regardless of how it affects the community he claim to "love" Donating money to a school, while promoting negative BS outtah booth is like a father giving money to his seed and saying "I'm taking care of mines." Money alone does not make a child a responsible adult

 

[Saka]

Popcaan >

 

[JMurder]

Please don't try to play word games, we know what you were trying to suggest when you mentioned hundred of rappers. Don't try to add a technicality about "I said rappers you heard" BS

I didn't try to suggest anything nor am I trying to play word games. I said what I said. If you took something else out of it that's on you

questions for clarification?

We are to ignore the self hate practice / reasons for bleaching that is common among all non-whites, so an artist who claims to be sending a positive message, could profit from those suffering from self hate, so he could "donate" to schools?
You don't have to ignore it, and I don't ignore it myself. I've always condemned the action...you can check the discussions on SOHH. Regardless, I still listen to his music which include tracks like Emergency, Life We Living, & Something Ah Go Happen. I accept the positives and condemn the negatives. I don't run away from it because he did something I don't like or believe he should do.
Hov & Diddy promoting liquor is a business move in hood society?
Promoting a beverage that has done nothing for the urban community except bring down it's value in order to earn profits? Yeah....that's pretty much what it is. If you live in the hood you know the liquor store stereotype is apt, so why are we promoting the liquors for our people to buy? You think that's a stretch?
Bleaching skin is a form of expression like a tattoo and piercing?
Not to me but if that's the way he feels about it then that's on him. It's his body. In some forms of religion tattoos & piercings are sins that will lead you to hell. Let me put it like this, if I met a nicca who bleached his skin I'm not gonna automatically turn away from him. If he tells me that he did so because he hates being black, or thinks white is better...that's where I'll have to move away. The mindset has always been more important than the action imo...but again, I don't fukk with the action either.



So those who have the spot light, and chooses to promote stereotype and/or self-destructive behavior for the sole purpose of profit has no responsibility to that community that they are being affected by the promotion of stereotype and/or self-destructive behavior? It's the parents fault?

never said that...you're twisting words



The list I made was to point out that you have options as a rapper ,as an entertainer, on subject matter and what you wanna promote when you're outtah the booth. Taking the short cut to fame by living up to stereotype and profiting is a selfish, lame move and shouldn't be tolerated

honestly, the in the booth out the booth shyt is a cop out to me. What you lay on tracks is promotion and what you do outside of that doesn't forgive the music. If you're worried about children, the actual music is what you need to be worried about most. If you're worried about yourself then what another adult does shouldn't affect you. And when you say "taking the short cut to fame by living up to stereotypes and profiting" I know already that you haven't listened to this dude Kartel speak...he condemns himself for the shyt that he does as an artist. He's an intelligent man who does idiotic things for profit the same way Jay-Z, Nas, Common, Mos Def, etc. have done at one point or another. But we hear these people speak a whole lot more than we do a Vybz Kartel so it's forgiven.

But it's tolerated because most fans don't want to be seen as not being "cool" and hip, so they conveniently
and lazily go along with whatever the media/"in" crowd says is in. Regardless of whether they respect hip hop or not.

Same for Kartel, he chose to do what it takes to keep the spot like on him, regardless of how it affects the community he claim to "love" Donating money to a school, while promoting negative BS outtah booth is like a father giving money to his seed and saying "I'm taking care of mines." Money alone does not make a child a responsible adult

There's evidence throughout Kartel's career of him speaking out against violence, and promoting positivity outside of the music. He even vowed to stop making violent music last year in promotion of peace. Have you seen his lecture at UWI?

 

[Isaiah Bradley]

You don't have to ignore it, and I don't ignore it myself. I've always condemned the action...you can check the discussions on SOHH. Regardless, I still listen to his music which include tracks like Emergency, Life We Living, & Something Ah Go Happen. I accept the positives and condemn the negatives. I don't run away from it because he did something I don't like or believe he should do.

Not to me but if that's the way he feels about it then that's on him. It's his body. In some forms of religion tattoos & piercings are sins that will lead you to hell. Let me put it like this, if I met a nicca who bleached his skin I'm not gonna automatically turn away from him. If he tells me that he did so because he hates being black, or thinks white is better...that's where I'll have to move away. The mindset has always been more important than the action imo...but again, I don't fukk with the action either.

This has nothing to do with whether you listen to his music. Like I already said, in booth antics and outtah booth antics are completely different

so you trying to play both sides of the argument then. You claim to acknowledge the root of the act and condemn it, but yet you trying to add a spin to his bleaching ways by talking about he sings positive songs and what is in his head is more important than his bleaching actions. Pick a side bruh

Actions speak louder than words. You claim he sing and talk about consciousness topics, but yet his outtah booth actions have been pure negativity. He's one level above a pedophile, he's a hypocrite

Promoting a beverage that has done nothing for the urban community except bring down it's value in order to earn profits? Yeah....that's pretty much what it is. If you live in the hood you know the liquor store stereotype is apt, so why are we promoting the liquors for our people to buy? You think that's a stretch?

urban community? Hov's drink, the average urbanite can't afford it, what you saying bruh?
Diddy is promoting a vodka, not malt liqueur that's sold only in black/latino communities. Two completely different things. try again

never said that...you're twisting words

I'm not twisting your words, you mentioned two things....Your parenting tactics and not blaming artist. So you suggest parents are responsible, so stop blaming the artist... which is BS

Personal responsibility means nothing, without being complimented by societal responsibility, and vice versa.
Parents could only do so much. Media could only do so much. You cannot request parents to be responsible, but allow an artist to promote self/community destruction outtah booth. You can't limit an artist ability to be creative in the booth, while the parents are not doing their job

honestly, the in the booth out the booth shyt is a cop out to me. What you lay on tracks is promotion and what you do outside of that doesn't forgive the music. If you're worried about children, the actual music is what you need to be worried about most. If you're worried about yourself then what another adult does shouldn't affect you. And when you say "taking the short cut to fame by living up to stereotypes and profiting" I know already that you haven't listened to this dude Kartel speak...he condemns himself for the shyt that he does as an artist. He's an intelligent man who does idiotic things for profit the same way Jay-Z, Nas, Common, Mos Def, etc. have done at one point or another. But we hear these people speak a whole lot more than we do a Vybz Kartel so it's forgiven.

Again, you're mentioning other artist as reason why it's OK for Kartel to act this way, "bu bu they did it, why can't he". But you're not providing any proof of said artist promoting any self/community destruction from outtah booth, like paleFace Adi

Kartel is a walking contradiction. I've heard him speak and knows he's intelligent, thus why I'm against his antics. He's too talented and does not need to promote BS outtah booth. Then start talking shyt about how the youths dem struggling, they need food, money for school and how the politicians are partly to blame, NO nikka, you are also to blame

So having an artist say whatever in the booth and holding him responsible to his outtah booth actions, is a cop out? Even though there are popular rappers/R&B artist that are doing just that. Other forms of artist like actor/writer/designer/director could have the clear lines marked between reality and entertainment, but rappers/dancehall artist are to live their rhymes? The fact that you're willing to blur the lines between reality and entertainment for one art form, but not blur the lines for another art form, reveals why you are a fan of a walking contradiction

 

[FUTUREVISIONS]

bun Bleacha boi

gully god sey so..

 

[WOLF2007]

Worl boss!!!

 

[JMurder]

This has nothing to do with whether you listen to his music. Like I already said, in booth antics and outtah booth antics are completely different

so you trying to play both sides of the argument then. You claim to acknowledge the root of the act and condemn it, but yet you trying to add a spin to his bleaching ways by talking about he sings positive songs and what is in his head is more important than his bleaching actions. Pick a side bruh

Actions speak louder than words. You claim he sing and talk about consciousness topics, but yet his outtah booth actions have been pure negativity. He's one level above a pedophile, he's a hypocrite


urban community? Hov's drink, the average urbanite can't afford it, what you saying bruh?
Diddy is promoting a vodka, not malt liqueur that's sold only in black/latino communities. Two completely different things. try again



I'm not twisting your words, you mentioned two things....Your parenting tactics and not blaming artist. So you suggest parents are responsible, so stop blaming the artist... which is BS

Personal responsibility means nothing, without being complimented by societal responsibility, and vice versa.
Parents could only do so much. Media could only do so much. You cannot request parents to be responsible, but allow an artist to promote self/community destruction outtah booth. You can't limit an artist ability to be creative in the booth, while the parents are not doing their job


Again, you're mentioning other artist as reason why it's OK for Kartel to act this way, "bu bu they did it, why can't he". But you're not providing any proof of said artist promoting any self/community destruction from outtah booth, like paleFace Adi

Kartel is a walking contradiction. I've heard him speak and knows he's intelligent, thus why I'm against his antics. He's too talented and does not need to promote BS outtah booth. Then start talking shyt about how the youths dem struggling, they need food, money for school and how the politicians are partly to blame, NO nikka, you are also to blame

So having an artist say whatever in the booth and holding him responsible to his outtah booth actions, is a cop out? Even though there are popular rappers/R&B artist that are doing just that. Other forms of artist like actor/writer/designer/director could have the clear lines marked between reality and entertainment, but rappers/dancehall artist are to live their rhymes? The fact that you're willing to blur the lines between reality and entertainment for one art form, but not blur the lines for another art form, reveals why you are a fan of a walking contradiction

This is getting long, timely, and not going anywhere. Peep the main argument...you came in here saying dude needs to rot in jail, not based on whether he is innocent or guilty, but because he's poisoning the minds of the youth. My only argument to that was that that same statement can be held over rappers like Jay-Z, Nas, etc. who you brought up in this thread as "positive" examples. I used that argument for YOU because I'm sure I haven't seen you make this statement before despite we are associated with forums that revolve around people who poison the minds of youth on tv, on radio, and elsewhere. I pointed out how you don't do this for anyone else because (imo) you only point this out on the easy target (which most ppl do). If this is the case then why should anyone take your opinion on this seriously? You don't hold any strong values to this topic....you're only pretending to because it's the hot controversial topic or because you see a man changed his skin color and automatically thought "bad."

Just as you have claimed that I'm not bringing up anyone who has promoted negativity that Kartel has, you haven't brought up any real negativity from Kartel outside of his skin bleaching. And while yes I have condemned it, I also don't consider it "poisoning the youth." With Kartel I disagree with but understand his personal choice.

 

[Isaiah Bradley]

This is getting long, timely, and not going anywhere. Peep the main argument...you came in here saying dude needs to rot in jail, not based on whether he is innocent or guilty, but because he's poisoning the minds of the youth. My only argument to that was that that same statement can be held over rappers like Jay-Z, Nas, etc. who you brought up in this thread as "positive" examples. I used that argument for YOU because I'm sure I haven't seen you make this statement before despite we are associated with forums that revolve around people who poison the minds of youth on tv, on radio, and elsewhere. I pointed out how you don't do this for anyone else because (imo) you only point this out on the easy target (which most ppl do). If this is the case then why should anyone take your opinion on this seriously? You don't hold any strong values to this topic....you're only pretending to because it's the hot controversial topic or because you see a man changed his skin color and automatically thought "bad."

Just as you have claimed that I'm not bringing up anyone who has promoted negativity that Kartel has, you haven't brought up any real negativity from Kartel outside of his skin bleaching. And while yes I have condemned it, I also don't consider it "poisoning the youth." With Kartel I disagree with but understand his personal choice.

The discussion is actually going into directions that have you cornered ideologically. I've addressed every argument you threw at me, and I've not contradicted any of my original points. I can't say the same for you. He should rot in jail for promoting BS and being careless with all the influence he has. He chooses to lead the youth and the lost further astray for profit and hype

@ bolded, so bleaching skin is good now?
again, pick a side and be consistent.

You can't condemn it, but then hint it's not "bad" because it's his personal choice, but yet he promoting/profiting from the products that bleaches skin

So now you're trying to sweep the bleaching under rug, talking about needing more evidence of negativity, that's negative enough. I'll make it simple for you.....tell me how Jay Z and Nas are poisoning the minds of the community more than bleacher boy?

 

[JMurder]

The discussion is actually going into directions that have you cornered ideologically. I've addressed every argument you threw at me, and I've not contradicted any of my original points. I can't say the same for you. He should rot in jail for promoting BS and being careless with all the influence he has. He chooses to lead the youth and the lost further astray for profit and hype

@ bolded, so bleaching skin is good now?
again, pick a side and be consistent.

You can't condemn it, but then hint it's not "bad" because it's his personal choice, but yet he promoting/profiting from the products that bleaches skin

So now you're trying to sweep the bleaching under rug, talking about needing more evidence of negativity, that's negative enough. I'll make it simple for you.....tell me how Jay Z and Nas are poisoning the minds of the community more than bleacher boy?

I never contradicted anything, and I never accused Jay-Z and Nas of being more or less poisonous than Kartel. If a man colors his skin and states to the world how the "color of a man's skin is of no more importance than the color of a man's eyes," explain to me what is poisonous there.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

 

[Isaiah Bradley]

I never contradicted anything, and I never accused Jay-Z and Nas of being more or less poisonous than Kartel. If a man colors his skin and states to the world how the "color of a man's skin is of no more importance than the color of a man's eyes," explain to me what is poisonous there.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

The same thing can be said about the hundreds of rappers and/or R&B singers you've listened to throughout your life. I've never been down with the selective bashing if certain entertainers

that's a clear contradiction, selective memory having azz nikka b

You've been flip flopping on bleaching skin, trying to add a twist to it, but then saying you "condemn it"......stop it. Again, you're using his BS reasoning to offset the historical roots of bleaching, but then talmbowt you not ignoring history. As if paleFace Adi has done anything to impact the global struggle of black people to the point where he could now rewrite history, and make certain taboo topics suddenly acceptable and the norm

This discussion only goes to prove how gullible and simps to fame most people are. Willing to defend the actions, that has historical significance to minorities, just because of the popularity and fame

Ol "I'll go along with it because it's more of a hassle to stand for something" azz nikkas. I remember reading on a forum where nikkas were discussing how overhype MLK was

 

[Cuban Pete]

weh dat fah = the jamaican ether

 

[JMurder]

that's a clear contradiction, selective memory having azz nikka b

you just exposed your ignorance of the english language

how does saying "you can say Jay-Z & Nas have poisoned our youth also" equate to "Jay-Z & Nas are more/less poisonous than Vybz Kartel?"

 

[Metta World Movement]

Dude bleached his skin like it ain't nothin' wrong