For whom the Drum rolls: 2013-2014 Detroit Pistons Thread

[eastside313]

He started off terrible then he eventually started to find his shot. I'm not gonna bother breaking down the month to month shooting improvement, but he def was getting better finding his shot. Just a rookie who struggled tough early. He was/is really under utilized in this offense. He's a guy with a good catch and shoot game and is solid coming off screens. They just use him as a 3pt mostly, and is tough for him to get shots consistently with Smith and Jennings.

I don't have the hard on for Burke the way a lot of our fans do, as I think he'll be pretty limited in his potential growth based on his size and athleticism. But it's clear he does a better job running a team than Jennings. Theres still a very clear Mich fan bias when post draft they are clamoring for him when MCW seems like the real gem and was available. From an offensive and defensive standpoint he's better and has more upside. I didn't like the idea of drafting him cause I wasn't impressed with what he was doing at Cuse. He didn't look that athletic, j was broke, and I had no idea how his d was, being hidden in that zone. I was wrong.

his j is still broke

I may have had a smidget Of bias for Burke but homie is a player and a leader and a winner. No longer is mcw the run away rookie of the year.

 

[Regular_P]

MCW has more potential than Burke, but Burke knows how to run a team better than MCW at this point. He just has a natural feel for the game and knows how to get people the ball in the right spots. Much better jumper than MCW too, even though his FG% has been poor this season. He'd work beautifully with Detroit's front court.

I doubt you'd rarely, if ever see him taking more shots than Drummond and Monroe combined.

 

[eastside313]

what kind of minutes though, Hardaway's minutes are more meaningful and certified. I've seen plenty of games where KCP came in cold and was put in bad spots to make shots, cant play a guy inconsistently then ask for him to be automatic, especially a rookie. KCP may have played more minutes to start off the season initially between the two effecting the total #'s but that's not the case now. That's a case of a coach (Cheeks) juggling lineups too much. Hardway gets better shots also, the Knicks offense as iso as it is still has a much better flow than Detroit's offense.

Before last week kcp been playing atleast 20mpg since before thanksgiving. Kcp gets plenty of run, and I hope he turns out to be a stud but he has the look of a good rotational player. Another one of those Dumars trying to be a smarty pants picks. Like when he took Walter sharpe over Jordan. Even though I'm not a fan of deandre Jordan, he's better than captain sleepy sharpe.

 

[NormanConnors]

Before last week kcp been playing atleast 20mpg since before thanksgiving. Kcp gets plenty of run, and I hope he turns out to be a stud but he has the look of a good rotational player. Another one of those Dumars trying to be a smarty pants picks. Like when he took Walter sharpe over Jordan. Even though I'm not a fan of deandre Jordan, he's better than captain sleepy sharpe.

i remember that one. I'm not a fan of Dre Jordan either but still.

 

[Malta]

his j is still broke

I may have had a smidget Of bias for Burke but homie is a player and a leader and a winner. No longer is mcw the run away rookie of the year.

MCW is the ROTY, and had the Pistons taken him they would have been able to keep Middleton and Knight, with Knight essentially becoming a SG in the lineup without having to run your offense.

It would have been a reach at the time, but MCW on the Pistons changes the look of that team for the better.

 

[pawdalaw]

Yes! I check all of my sources daily looking for a trade. But this is good enogh for now. Cheeks coaching is woat.

 

[manyfaces]

I can't blame cheeks coaching on this train wreck. Come on do you think they not practicing defense. You think cheeks tells Jennings look bruh when u push the rock if you get a look at a 3 pull it don't matter if it's one on three.

It's up to them fools to execute.

Just because the roster is flawed it doesn't mean that he wasn't doing a bad job as well. They aren't mutually exclusive. Part of being a leader is getting people to buy in to what your telling them. Even if he was drawing up the best defensive schemes they weren't buying in. The way the whole team looked utterly confused on how they were defending p n r's, hell just in general on defense. They just looked like they didn't really have any type o of defensive philosophy. Plus on o just letting Jennings and Smith play horse each possession with no real repercussions certainly didn't help to display hos coaching acumen. Cheeks was just as bad an acquisition as Jennings and Smith.

MCW is the ROTY, and had the Pistons taken him they would have been able to keep Middleton and Knight, with Knight essentially becoming a SG in the lineup without having to run your offense.

It would have been a reach at the time, but MCW on the Pistons changes the look of that team for the better.

Thank you sir. If we gonna blame Dumars for passing up a pg, why not talk about the one that now looks like he has real star potential, not the hometown favorite. I understand yall fandom, but MCW in hindsight is the one I'm sorry we missed on. Team would have an excellent future with him and Drummond.

 

[eastside313]

MCW is the ROTY, and had the Pistons taken him they would have been able to keep Middleton and Knight, with Knight essentially becoming a SG in the lineup without having to run your offense.

It would have been a reach at the time, but MCW on the Pistons changes the look of that team for the better.

bruh you dont have to tell me no scenario on who would been on the pistons. MCW is a better defender than burke no doubt but other than that what can he do that burke cant.

 

[dh86]

MCW is the ROTY, and had the Pistons taken him they would have been able to keep Middleton and Knight, with Knight essentially becoming a SG in the lineup without having to run your offense.

It would have been a reach at the time, but MCW on the Pistons changes the look of that team for the better.

He's a terrible shooter and turnover machine

 

[eastside313]

Just because the roster is flawed it doesn't mean that he wasn't doing a bad job as well. They aren't mutually exclusive. Part of being a leader is getting people to buy in to what your telling them. Even if he was drawing up the best defensive schemes they weren't buying in. The way the whole team looked utterly confused on how they were defending p n r's, hell just in general on defense. They just looked like they didn't really have any type o of defensive philosophy. Plus on o just letting Jennings and Smith play horse each possession with no real repercussions certainly didn't help to display hos coaching acumen. Cheeks was just as bad an acquisition as Jennings and Smith.

Thank you sir. If we gonna blame Dumars for passing up a pg, why not talk about the one that now looks like he has real star potential, not the hometown favorite. I understand yall fandom, but MCW in hindsight is the one I'm sorry we missed on. Team would have an excellent future with him and Drummond.

So you can admit you was wrong about mcw but not burke. Are you a sparty

 

[manyfaces]

So you can admit you was wrong about mcw but not burke. Are you a sparty[/quote]

I don't post with no damn agenda. I leave that to you super Wolverine and Spartan fans. Leave me out that corny shyt. What do I need to admit I was wrong about with Burke? If you gonna quote me then make it actually about something I said. Dont argue with other folks and attach my name to it. I don't need to praise Burke when I'm talking about MCW.

 

[eastside313]

Thank you sir. If we gonna blame Dumars for passing up a pg, why not talk about the one that now looks like he has real star potential, not the hometown favorite. I understand yall fandom, but MCW in hindsight is the one I'm sorry we missed on. Team would have an excellent future with him and Drummond.

Why does it have to be our fandom for Burke as if he hasn't shown that he's a nba ready starting pg. What has mcw shown that says real star potential. You know when he doesn't play his backup comes in has good production.

So you can admit you was wrong

I don't post with no damn agenda. I leave that to you super Wolverine and Spartan fans. Leave me out that corny shyt. What do I need to admit I was wrong about with Burke? If you gonna quote me then make it actually about something I said. Dont argue with other folks and attach my name to it. I don't need to praise Burke when I'm talking about MCW.

I'm just sayin bruh you had questions about both of them but now u singing mcw high praises and still shyttin on Burke as if he's not performing like mcw.

 

[manyfaces]

Why does it have to be our fandom for Burke as if he hasn't shown that he's a nba ready starting pg. What has mcw shown that says real star potential. You know when he doesn't play his backup comes in has good production.



I'm just sayin bruh you had questions about both of them but now u singing mcw high praises and still shyttin on Burke as if he's not performing like mcw.

Why does it have to be extremes with you in order to support your narrative? In none of the post you quoted was I "shyttin on Burke". Hell, the only thing I even said about Burke directly was that I think his upside is limited due to his lack of size and athleticism and that he definitely knows how to run a team better than Jennings. If that's shytting on a player then I guess I'm guilty as charged. Those were some scathing remarks about dudes game and I'll try to tone it down going forward.

Again I don't post with some overlying agenda like a lot of posters on here, so truthfully I think you looking way to deep into this just cause I didn't big up your guy. When you talk about Burke without mentioning MCW I, nor anyone else has viewed it as shyttin on MCW. The things I like about his game in comparison, and why I mentioned that he can be a potential star is the combination of his ability to play the pg position at that size. He has a bigger impact defensively and is a matchup problem on both sides at his position. Dude be disrupting shyt with his length and quickness against other pgs. While Burke has him in the turnover dept, MCW damn near doubles him up in rebs and does double him up in steals. So for the times that Burke is protecting the ball, MCW is gaining extra possession by turning the other team over. He gets to the line at a much higher clip too. And even with you talking about MCW's j being broke (it is) he's still shooting a better fg% than Burke. Neither are setting the world on fire in that regard, so it's hard to prop up Burke as a much better shooter. They both are shooting pretty damn terrible right now. Burke is the better 3 pt shooter though. When it comes down to it, I like his size and the way MCW can impact so many facets of the game. At his size you can pair him up with almost any type of player in the backcourt and make it work due to his versatility and size enabling him to defend big guards. Plus I value defense more than most. So I can't just write it off as "other than defense, what does he do better," cause that's a whole side of the game your choosing to ignore. It was never nothing personal on some dumb ass "Sparty" vs "Wolvie" shyt like yall be on. I don't really fukk with that talk. Just never been a fan of small guards unless they have some type of elite skill or look truly special.

And ftr I'm very familiar with Wroten. Had my eyes on him since he was in 10th grade. Another big guard that struggles with his j. Very nice passer though. Dude is talented and I knew somebody was gonna get a steal when he was drafted so low. Then the Griz basically gave him away for nothing. I was interested but we already had a stable of suspect guards so I knew it wasn't something the Pistons would pursue. And does him being productive make MCW any less productive or talented? nikkas was talking about how Collison was producing with the Hornets when Paul would be out, but once he was given the keys folks found out he wasn't no where near CP3.


Now I say all that to say this, if MCW turns out to be the next Tyreke Evans, and his best year is his rookie year, while Burke ends up being better than CP3, then . I don't really give a shyt cause I don't get paid to scout nikkas. Just want to see my teams succeed and enjoy the game overall.

 

[eastside313]

Why does it have to be extremes with you in order to support your narrative? In none of the post you quoted was I "shyttin on Burke". Hell, the only thing I even said about Burke directly was that I think his upside is limited due to his lack of size and athleticism and that he definitely knows how to run a team better than Jennings. If that's shytting on a player then I guess I'm guilty as charged. Those were some scathing remarks about dudes game and I'll try to tone it down going forward.

Again I don't post with some overlying agenda like a lot of posters on here, so truthfully I think you looking way to deep into this just cause I didn't big up your guy. When you talk about Burke without mentioning MCW I, nor anyone else has viewed it as shyttin on MCW. The things I like about his game in comparison, and why I mentioned that he can be a potential star is the combination of his ability to play the pg position at that size. He has a bigger impact defensively and is a matchup problem on both sides at his position. Dude be disrupting shyt with his length and quickness against other pgs. While Burke has him in the turnover dept, MCW damn near doubles him up in rebs and does double him up in steals. So for the times that Burke is protecting the ball, MCW is gaining extra possession by turning the other team over. He gets to the line at a much higher clip too. And even with you talking about MCW's j being broke (it is) he's still shooting a better fg% than Burke. Neither are setting the world on fire in that regard, so it's hard to prop up Burke as a much better shooter. They both are shooting pretty damn terrible right now. Burke is the better 3 pt shooter though. When it comes down to it, I like his size and the way MCW can impact so many facets of the game. At his size you can pair him up with almost any type of player in the backcourt and make it work due to his versatility and size enabling him to defend big guards. Plus I value defense more than most. So I can't just write it off as "other than defense, what does he do better," cause that's a whole side of the game your choosing to ignore. It was never nothing personal on some dumb ass "Sparty" vs "Wolvie" shyt like yall be on. I don't really fukk with that talk. Just never been a fan of small guards unless they have some type of elite skill or look truly special.

And ftr I'm very familiar with Wroten. Had my eyes on him since he was in 10th grade. Another big guard that struggles with his j. Very nice passer though. Dude is talented and I knew somebody was gonna get a steal when he was drafted so low. Then the Griz basically gave him away for nothing. I was interested but we already had a stable of suspect guards so I knew it wasn't something the Pistons would pursue. And does him being productive make MCW any less productive or talented? nikkas was talking about how Collison was producing with the Hornets when Paul would be out, but once he was given the keys folks found out he wasn't no where near CP3.


Now I say all that to say this, if MCW turns out to be the next Tyreke Evans, and his best year is his rookie year, while Burke ends up being better than CP3, then . I don't really give a shyt cause I don't get paid to scout nikkas. Just want to see my teams succeed and enjoy the game overall.

I'm not choosing to ignore defense in my question. I haven't got to see mcw play but a handful of games so I'm asking y'all what is that he does that is so great.

I'm not trying to shyt on mcw either but does philly play a structered offense? Or are they on some helter skelter run and shoot type shyt.

Burke is getting over 3 boards a game that's not too shabby for a small pg. Them extra possessions mcw creates from turnovers end up as him turning it over very often as well.

I hope they both turn out to be wonderful players and either of them would've helped the pistons a lot more.

 

[eastside313]

Column: Maurice Cheeks' firing forewarned by Pistons owner Tom Gores, who was right
AUBURN HILLS -- Tom Gores said it without saying it. The indictment came straight from the top, for all the right reasons.



Maurice Cheeks' tenure as the Detroit Pistons' head coach lasted 50 games, the last two of them victories, which didn't matter much since owner Gores made it quite clear just eight days ago that he wasn't pleased with the coaching and thought the team was underachieving.



Gores said precisely that after a Feb. 1 victory over the Philadelphia 76ers, which officially goes down as the last time he saw Cheeks coach live. There was no mistaking the direct salvo he lobbed after that game at Cheeks, whose Pistons turned blowing fourth-quarter leads into something of an art form.



It ended when Cheeks was fired Sunday morning, hours after the Pistons beat the Denver Nuggets in Auburn Hills.


Gores made it clear last weekend that he thought the roster was good enough, the Pistons were "better than our record," and he didn't believe players were "at their maximum."



That's code for the coach isn't doing his job, and not particularly sophisticated code at that. Gores might as well have said "Ou're-yay ired-fay."



Gores, who lives in California, spent a few days here before that game. Discontent was in the air. He and Cheeks never spoke. Cheeks said if the owner had something to tell him, he would have said it through Joe Dumars, the president of basketball operations.



And Cheeks was right, that's exactly what happened this morning.



The Pistons should be better. That's the message sent by Gores eight days ago, and hammered home today. The Pistons owe two more years on Cheeks' contract and also are paying predecessor Lawrence Frank's contract this year. They're paying two head coaches, neither of whom is working for them. Veteran assistant John Loyer takes over as interim coach.


The timing of today's action -- with the Pistons 7-7 in their last 14 games, sweeping a weekend back-to-back, and the trade deadline still 11 days away -- clarified to some degree the type of owner Gores is, and his patience level. It also helps clarify his I-mean-what-I-say enforcement.



Gores put down the playoff dictum this year. The Pistons are a half-game out of the last spot in the Eastern Conference. The All-Star Game is this week.



The team didn't meet the owner's expectations, so the time for change was clear.



Cheeks never got things going. He was supposed to be the anti-Frank, and he was, in the basketball verbiage and preparation sense. He didn't talk a great game.



The bigger problem may have been that Cheeks also was supposed to be the anti-Frank in terms of player relationships, and boy, did that never happen.



The most recent example, and perhaps last straw, was a nose-to-nose confrontation between Cheeks and Will Bynum, the reserve point guard, in Wednesday's loss at Orlando.



Cheeks' use of the jumbo front line, the Pistons' defining characteristic, was only starting to take some rotational shape. As it happened, the coach turned off all three players at different times, going back as far as Nov. 12 -- the seventh game of the season, when he decided not to start $54 million free agent Josh Smith in the second half of a loss at Golden State.



Along with several other players who have questioned their roles, Greg Monroe's fourth-quarter usage has been sketchy. And even star center Andre Drummond had a moment of disconnect when Cheeks yanked him 11 seconds into the second half of a Jan. 26 game at Dallas after a misunderstanding on how a pick-and-roll should be run.



That was an opportunity for a teaching moment but assistant Henry Bibby, not Cheeks, was the one who approached Drummond. The center shooed him away.



One player later said the problem was that Drummond did exactly what he thought he was supposed to do and Cheeks didn't understand that it was a product of miscommunication, not defiance.



Drummond and Gores communicate every couple of weeks about things, the player said, and seeing the franchise player unhappy probably didn't go over well with the owner. Within a couple of days, Gores was in southeast Michigan, and the process of dismissal began to take shape.



Gores made the right call, too, in making Cheeks the briefest-tenured non-interim head coach in Pistons history.



Cheeks was no bastion of preparation. He replaced a coach criticized for not using all his weapons, then didn't use all his weapons. He replaced a coach criticized for his player relationships, then lost his team to the whisper mill barely halfway through his first season. He commonly didn't know at his press briefing, less than two hours before a game, who the Pistons' inactive players would be.



When he was hired, after two not-so-super stints previously as a head coach at Philadelphia and Portland, the question was why.



Cheeks never answered that last one, nor is he likely to get another chance.

I might have to get on the meddling owner train. That's the only reason I can see him firing cheeks and not dumars. If gores thinks this team is talented as constructed then he musta had a hand in shaping it.

He's delusional if making the playoffs with a losing record and getting swept is some type of accomplishment.