ECOWAS Troops Amass on Gambian Border- Jammeh has till Midnight to Leave

[Yehuda]

 

[Sonni]

I wonder if Mauritanian breh @Sonni still lurks here. If so please post. Would be interested in your insight on this issue as it's your neck of the woods.

salam bruv; I am here. I will post about it later. Btw, I am half-senegalese.

 

[Sonni]

Yup. None of his neighbours like him, barely has support at home. Dude is the definition of isolated. Betting he will give up soon.

Guinea and Mauritania (and Guinea-Bissau) "like" him only because they share a common fright for Senegalese hegemony in the region.

 

[Sonni]

@thatknickfan

As a senegalese I wil give you guys some elements about the Senegal state of mind in this affair.
First of all Senegal and Gambia are the most absurd outcome of a british and french colonialism duel. Gambia is a small enclave within Senegal and shares 100% the same culture, languages, religion, climate, etc ... Senegal has intervened two times in Gambia to crush coup attempts after a request by the then Gambian president. There was a brief confederation called Senegambia formed in 1981 but dissolved in 1989 because of the gambian elite fear of completely lose their privileges and some different views on policies. There are not two countries in the world that close in Africa.

Let's move on to 2017, Jammeh clearly miscalculated, lost this election and admitted defeat only to retract himself triggered by pres Barrow's dumb ass menacing him of being judged or sent to the ICC.

But Senegal wasn't having it this way and were not going to let this occasion to put Jammeh out of office pass by.
The reason why Senegal is so keen to have him out is clearly national interest. He has been a pain in the ass for the senegalese economy and stability. You guys probably know there is a low level insurgency in the southern Senegalese Casamance region and the rebels has been used by Jammeh to put pressure on Senegal when needed. He has acted as a sponsor and protector of the Casamance rebels offering a safe haven in Gambia where they can retreat while refusing the senegalese army right of pursue inside Gambia and also providing arms and logistics. He ofc has always denied this. Without him they can not survive. Also Casamance is an important agricultural region with a great potential but to easily attain it from the north of Senegal you need to cross Gambia, there is another way but that would mean a huge detour through eastern Senegal or by sea. Now Jammeh has many times tried to sabotage or make access by road difficult for senegalese transporters which results in serious losses for business between north and south and difficulties in properly developing Casamance. Why is he doing this is all because of the fear of being absorbed by Senegal.

This has been going on for ages and meanwhile dude is terrorising his countrymen with extrajudicial killings, torture, threaten a whole ethnic group of genocide, claiming he can cure aids, make Gambia an islamic repubic without consulting anyone, ... The westerners didn't care much, just the usual verbal condemnations because Gambia is of no strategic or economic importance. Same for Russia and China. Senegal never acted against Jammeh before except maybe some timid support to some opposition leaders because there was no legal basis to military intervene but now the situation is different and president Sall saw it as it is, "now or never". Senegalese and gambians are the same people, gambians have been begging the senegalese to intervene for years but Senegal was patiently waiting for him to make a fatal mistake. It finally happened and he will leave. Dude is very hardheaded and wants immunity, keep his assets, etc ... they are still discussing the modalities. The important thing for the gambian people and Senegals is that he leaves power. The only danger for Senegal is if helped by Senegal's frenemies like Mauritania and Guinea, Guinea-Bissau(depends on the regimes there) he somehow finds a way to retaliate by way of Casmance rebels and a few hardcore gambian nationalists. Because let's be clear here Barrow owes his power to Senegal and he will be in no position to refuse any directives by the Senegalese government. Besides that him and president Sall of Senegal are both fulanis, and of the same sufi tijaniya communiy, they practically family lol. As soon as he installed an unofficial Senegambia is reborn.

 

[Bawon Samedi]

Guinea and Mauritania (and Guinea-Bissau) "like" him only because they share a common fright for Senegalese hegemony in the region.

Why is Senegalese hegemony a threat to Guinea and Mauritania?

PS: Didn't know you were part Mauritanian? Are you part "Berber" Muaritanian?

 

[thatrapsfan]

@thatknickfan

As a senegalese I wil give you guys some elements about the Senegal state of mind in this affair.
First of all Senegal and Gambia are the most absurd outcome of a british and french colonialism duel. Gambia is a small enclave within Senegal and shares 100% the same culture, languages, religion, climate, etc ... Senegal has intervened two times in Gambia to crush coup attempts after a request by the then Gambian president. There was a brief confederation called Senegambia formed in 1981 but dissolved in 1989 because of the gambian elite fear of completely lose their privileges and some different views on policies. There are not two countries in the world that close in Africa.

Let's move on to 2017, Jammeh clearly miscalculated, lost this election and admitted defeat only to retract himself triggered by pres Barrow's dumb ass menacing him of being judged or sent to the ICC.

But Senegal wasn't having it this way and were not going to let this occasion to put Jammeh out of office pass by.
The reason why Senegal is so keen to have him out is clearly national interest. He has been a pain in the ass for the senegalese economy and stability. You guys probably know there is a low level insurgency in the southern Senegalese Casamance region and the rebels has been used by Jammeh to put pressure on Senegal when needed. He has acted as a sponsor and protector of the Casamance rebels offering a safe haven in Gambia where they can retreat while refusing the senegalese army right of pursue inside Gambia and also providing arms and logistics. He ofc has always denied this. Without him they can not survive. Also Casamance is an important agricultural region with a great potential but to easily attain it from the north of Senegal you need to cross Gambia, there is another way but that would mean a huge detour through eastern Senegal or by sea. Now Jammeh has many times tried to sabotage or make access by road difficult for senegalese transporters which results in serious losses for business between north and south and difficulties in properly developing Casamance. Why is he doing this is all because of the fear of being absorbed by Senegal.

This has been going on for ages and meanwhile dude is terrorising his countrymen with extrajudicial killings, torture, threaten a whole ethnic group of genocide, claiming he can cure aids, make Gambia an islamic repubic without consulting anyone, ... The westerners didn't care much, just the usual verbal condemnations because Gambia is of no strategic or economic importance. Same for Russia and China. Senegal never acted against Jammeh before except maybe some timid support to some opposition leaders because there was no legal basis to military intervene but now the situation is different and president Sall saw it as it is, "now or never". Senegalese and gambians are the same people, gambians have been begging the senegalese to intervene for years but Senegal was patiently waiting for him to make a fatal mistake. It finally happened and he will leave. Dude is very hardheaded and wants immunity, keep his assets, etc ... they are still discussing the modalities. The important thing for the gambian people and Senegals is that he leaves power. The only danger for Senegal is if helped by Senegal's frenemies like Mauritania and Guinea, Guinea-Bissau(depends on the regimes there) he somehow finds a way to retaliate by way of Casmance rebels and a few hardcore gambian nationalists. Because let's be clear here Barrow owes his power to Senegal and he will be in no position to refuse any directives by the Senegalese government. Besides that him and president Sall of Senegal are both fulanis, and of the same sufi tijaniya communiy, they practically family lol. As soon as he installed an unofficial Senegambia is reborn.

Thanks for the great, informative post bro. I forgot you are half Senegalese my bad!

The relationship/dynamic between Gambia and Senegal has some parallels to Djibouti and Somalia. As far as Guinea's position on this, is this also motivated by ethnic dynamics? I know Guinea also has a big Fulani population so guessing the current President may be worried by potential support/relationship they have with Barrow. Also realized that there are now three West Africans countries with Fulani Presidents lol Nigeria, Senegal, and Gambia.

Where does Mauritania play into this and how do they see Gambia offsetting Senegalese power?

 

[thatrapsfan]

It's over! Flies off to Guinea.

 

[Trajan]

@thatknickfan

As a senegalese I wil give you guys some elements about the Senegal state of mind in this affair.
First of all Senegal and Gambia are the most absurd outcome of a british and french colonialism duel. Gambia is a small enclave within Senegal and shares 100% the same culture, languages, religion, climate, etc ... Senegal has intervened two times in Gambia to crush coup attempts after a request by the then Gambian president. There was a brief confederation called Senegambia formed in 1981 but dissolved in 1989 because of the gambian elite fear of completely lose their privileges and some different views on policies. There are not two countries in the world that close in Africa.

Let's move on to 2017, Jammeh clearly miscalculated, lost this election and admitted defeat only to retract himself triggered by pres Barrow's dumb ass menacing him of being judged or sent to the ICC.

But Senegal wasn't having it this way and were not going to let this occasion to put Jammeh out of office pass by.
The reason why Senegal is so keen to have him out is clearly national interest. He has been a pain in the ass for the senegalese economy and stability. You guys probably know there is a low level insurgency in the southern Senegalese Casamance region and the rebels has been used by Jammeh to put pressure on Senegal when needed. He has acted as a sponsor and protector of the Casamance rebels offering a safe haven in Gambia where they can retreat while refusing the senegalese army right of pursue inside Gambia and also providing arms and logistics. He ofc has always denied this. Without him they can not survive. Also Casamance is an important agricultural region with a great potential but to easily attain it from the north of Senegal you need to cross Gambia, there is another way but that would mean a huge detour through eastern Senegal or by sea. Now Jammeh has many times tried to sabotage or make access by road difficult for senegalese transporters which results in serious losses for business between north and south and difficulties in properly developing Casamance. Why is he doing this is all because of the fear of being absorbed by Senegal.

This has been going on for ages and meanwhile dude is terrorising his countrymen with extrajudicial killings, torture, threaten a whole ethnic group of genocide, claiming he can cure aids, make Gambia an islamic repubic without consulting anyone, ... The westerners didn't care much, just the usual verbal condemnations because Gambia is of no strategic or economic importance. Same for Russia and China. Senegal never acted against Jammeh before except maybe some timid support to some opposition leaders because there was no legal basis to military intervene but now the situation is different and president Sall saw it as it is, "now or never". Senegalese and gambians are the same people, gambians have been begging the senegalese to intervene for years but Senegal was patiently waiting for him to make a fatal mistake. It finally happened and he will leave. Dude is very hardheaded and wants immunity, keep his assets, etc ... they are still discussing the modalities. The important thing for the gambian people and Senegals is that he leaves power. The only danger for Senegal is if helped by Senegal's frenemies like Mauritania and Guinea, Guinea-Bissau(depends on the regimes there) he somehow finds a way to retaliate by way of Casmance rebels and a few hardcore gambian nationalists. Because let's be clear here Barrow owes his power to Senegal and he will be in no position to refuse any directives by the Senegalese government. Besides that him and president Sall of Senegal are both fulanis, and of the same sufi tijaniya communiy, they practically family lol. As soon as he installed an unofficial Senegambia is reborn.

Great post. Thanks for the breakdown.

 

[Sonni]

Why is Senegalese hegemony a threat to Guinea and Mauritania?

PS: Didn't know you were part Mauritanian? Are you part "Berber" Muaritanian?

also for @thatknickfan

Mauritania has transitioned from a tranquil black-arab-berber bridge country between Morocco and Senegal into a succession of arab nationalist pseudo-islamist autocratic military regimes that discriminate it's black citizens since the late 80's so that is a natural opposite of Senegal which is a majority muslim but staunchly secular black african democratic state with true ethnic and religious harmony. SInce these borders make no sense, the non-arabised citizens of southern Mauritania are indistinguishable from those of northern Senegal and the successive mauritanian regimes have always feared the Senegalese government helping that minority to take power or at least have their rights respected. Also Senegal is Morocco's best ally in Africa and Morocco has always been nostalgic as they claim Mauritania as part of her empire (unofficially they don't but still). That is a serious threat if they would ally against Mauritania. I am not part berber mauritanian but part of my family is hassaniya speaking.

As for Guinea it's less serious than with Mauritania, it's a sort of rivalry and jealousy but also Senegal is a safe haven for fulani opposition and fulani civilians. This has been so since the times of Ahmed Sekou Touré. And ofc the successive guinean governments who have always adopted "anything but a fulani in power tactics" do not like that.

It's not a coincidence Jammeh only listened to Condé of Guinea and Abdel Aziz of Mauritania, and his head was saved by them in the last minute. They are united in their dislike for Senegal if they could they would try to keep him in power. But Senegal and Ecowas didn't leave that option open.

 

[Bawon Samedi]

also for @thatknickfan

Mauritania has transitioned from a tranquil black-arab-berber bridge country between Morocco and Senegal into a succession of arab nationalist pseudo-islamist autocratic military regimes that discriminate it's black citizens since the late 80's so that is a natural opposite of Senegal which is a majority muslim but staunchly secular black african democratic state with true ethnic and religious harmony. SInce these borders make no sense, the non-arabised citizens of southern Mauritania are indistinguishable from those of northern Senegal and the successive mauritanian regimes have always feared the Senegalese government helping that minority to take power or at least have their rights respected. Also Senegal is Morocco's best ally in Africa and Morocco has always been nostalgic as they claim Mauritania as part of her empire (unofficially they don't but still). That is a serious threat if they would ally against Mauritania. I am not part berber mauritanian but part of my family is hassaniya speaking.

As for Guinea it's less serious than with Mauritania, it's a sort of rivalry and jealousy but also Senegal is a safe haven for fulani opposition and fulani civilians. This has been so since the times of Ahmed Sekou Touré. And ofc the successive guinean governments who have always adopted "anything but a fulani in power tactics" do not like that.

Very interesting and GLAD you are back.

But aren't those "Arabs" in Mauritania just Arabized Berbers? Because to me they look like Berbers. But in terms of the bolded before those three groups use to get along in that country before the 80s? And I can definitely see Morocco wanting Mauritania like they also want the Western Desert.

 

[Sonni]

Very interesting and GLAD you are back.

But aren't those "Arabs" in Mauritania just Arabized Berbers? Because to me they look like Berbers. But in terms of the bolded before those three groups use to get along in that country before the 80s? And I can definitely see Morocco wanting Mauritania like they also want the Western Desert.

ofc 90% of them are arabised negro-berbers, some a little more black some a little more berber but they are brainwashed with the idea of arab supremacy and also arabic speaking since many generations. Just like most north-africans, if they want to be arab so badly we let them be.

Before the 80' the ethnic groups got along fairly well because there was a principle of powersharing. But after arab greediness and more and more laws promoting arabisation, a group of fulani military attempted a coup to restore the equilibrum. The coup failed and since then the arab-berbers got scared and went full "we are an arab country" mode.

 

[Birnin Zana]

@Sonni, great posting breh

 

[Bawon Samedi]

ofc 90% of them are arabised negro-berbers, some a little more black some a little more berber but they are brainwashed with the idea of arab supremacy and also arabic speaking since many generations. Just like most north-africans, if they want to be arab so badly we let them be.

Before the 80' the ethnic groups got along fairly well because there was a principle of powersharing. But after arab greediness and more and more laws promoting arabisation, a group of fulani military attempted a coup to restore the equilibrum. The coup failed and since then the arab-berbers got scared and went full "we are an arab country" mode.

Dang...

 

[Frangala]

@thatknickfan

As a senegalese I wil give you guys some elements about the Senegal state of mind in this affair.
First of all Senegal and Gambia are the most absurd outcome of a british and french colonialism duel. Gambia is a small enclave within Senegal and shares 100% the same culture, languages, religion, climate, etc ... Senegal has intervened two times in Gambia to crush coup attempts after a request by the then Gambian president. There was a brief confederation called Senegambia formed in 1981 but dissolved in 1989 because of the gambian elite fear of completely lose their privileges and some different views on policies. There are not two countries in the world that close in Africa.

Let's move on to 2017, Jammeh clearly miscalculated, lost this election and admitted defeat only to retract himself triggered by pres Barrow's dumb ass menacing him of being judged or sent to the ICC.

But Senegal wasn't having it this way and were not going to let this occasion to put Jammeh out of office pass by.
The reason why Senegal is so keen to have him out is clearly national interest. He has been a pain in the ass for the senegalese economy and stability. You guys probably know there is a low level insurgency in the southern Senegalese Casamance region and the rebels has been used by Jammeh to put pressure on Senegal when needed. He has acted as a sponsor and protector of the Casamance rebels offering a safe haven in Gambia where they can retreat while refusing the senegalese army right of pursue inside Gambia and also providing arms and logistics. He ofc has always denied this. Without him they can not survive. Also Casamance is an important agricultural region with a great potential but to easily attain it from the north of Senegal you need to cross Gambia, there is another way but that would mean a huge detour through eastern Senegal or by sea. Now Jammeh has many times tried to sabotage or make access by road difficult for senegalese transporters which results in serious losses for business between north and south and difficulties in properly developing Casamance. Why is he doing this is all because of the fear of being absorbed by Senegal.

This has been going on for ages and meanwhile dude is terrorising his countrymen with extrajudicial killings, torture, threaten a whole ethnic group of genocide, claiming he can cure aids, make Gambia an islamic repubic without consulting anyone, ... The westerners didn't care much, just the usual verbal condemnations because Gambia is of no strategic or economic importance. Same for Russia and China. Senegal never acted against Jammeh before except maybe some timid support to some opposition leaders because there was no legal basis to military intervene but now the situation is different and president Sall saw it as it is, "now or never". Senegalese and gambians are the same people, gambians have been begging the senegalese to intervene for years but Senegal was patiently waiting for him to make a fatal mistake. It finally happened and he will leave. Dude is very hardheaded and wants immunity, keep his assets, etc ... they are still discussing the modalities. The important thing for the gambian people and Senegals is that he leaves power. The only danger for Senegal is if helped by Senegal's frenemies like Mauritania and Guinea, Guinea-Bissau(depends on the regimes there) he somehow finds a way to retaliate by way of Casmance rebels and a few hardcore gambian nationalists. Because let's be clear here Barrow owes his power to Senegal and he will be in no position to refuse any directives by the Senegalese government. Besides that him and president Sall of Senegal are both fulanis, and of the same sufi tijaniya communiy, they practically family lol. As soon as he installed an unofficial Senegambia is reborn.

Nice simple breakdown of a complex situation

 

[videogamestashbox.com]

also for @thatknickfan

Mauritania has transitioned from a tranquil black-arab-berber bridge country between Morocco and Senegal into a succession of arab nationalist pseudo-islamist autocratic military regimes that discriminate it's black citizens since the late 80's so that is a natural opposite of Senegal which is a majority muslim but staunchly secular black african democratic state with true ethnic and religious harmony. SInce these borders make no sense, the non-arabised citizens of southern Mauritania are indistinguishable from those of northern Senegal and the successive mauritanian regimes have always feared the Senegalese government helping that minority to take power or at least have their rights respected. Also Senegal is Morocco's best ally in Africa and Morocco has always been nostalgic as they claim Mauritania as part of her empire (unofficially they don't but still). That is a serious threat if they would ally against Mauritania. I am not part berber mauritanian but part of my family is hassaniya speaking.

As for Guinea it's less serious than with Mauritania, it's a sort of rivalry and jealousy but also Senegal is a safe haven for fulani opposition and fulani civilians. This has been so since the times of Ahmed Sekou Touré. And ofc the successive guinean governments who have always adopted "anything but a fulani in power tactics" do not like that.

It's not a coincidence Jammeh only listened to Condé of Guinea and Abdel Aziz of Mauritania, and his head was saved by them in the last minute. They are united in their dislike for Senegal if they could they would try to keep him in power. But Senegal and Ecowas didn't leave that option open.

Very interesting and GLAD you are back.

But aren't those "Arabs" in Mauritania just Arabized Berbers? Because to me they look like Berbers. But in terms of the bolded before those three groups use to get along in that country before the 80s? And I can definitely see Morocco wanting Mauritania like they also want the Western Desert.

ofc 90% of them are arabised negro-berbers, some a little more black some a little more berber but they are brainwashed with the idea of arab supremacy and also arabic speaking since many generations. Just like most north-africans, if they want to be arab so badly we let them be.

Before the 80' the ethnic groups got along fairly well because there was a principle of powersharing. But after arab greediness and more and more laws promoting arabisation, a group of fulani military attempted a coup to restore the equilibrum. The coup failed and since then the arab-berbers got scared and went full "we are an arab country" mode.

@Sonni, great posting breh

fukk it, yall bout to make me break out my jam.......