Dr. Umar Goes Off On The Entire Rap Community

[Plankton]

Harlem was flooded with black businesses, black banks, and home ownership on the heels of Jazz. But again, we were way more united back then.

Homie, you cant just say anything without any grounded evidence.

According to a recorded survey the black business that were thriving between 1915 and 1930 in Harlem were traditional businesses but it doesn't say anything about being on the "heels of jazz" like you claimed

Barbers, the beauty trade, and undertakers were the engines of the black economy.

It also talks about how whites owned 75% of the businesses in Harlem during that era.

A survey by NYA reporters in 1916 found that whites owned 75 percent of the 503 businesses in the area where blacks lived, and employed only 150 blacks

Black Businesses in 1920s Harlem

When blacks moved to Harlem to live, they also looked to relocate and establish businesses. While the number of Harlem’s residences that were home to blacks steadily expanded, the neighborhoo…

drstephenrobertson.com

 

[Easy-E]

I wonder what the students at the FDMG Academy think about this

 

[Awesome Wells]

Homie, you cant just say anything without any grounded evidence.

According to a recorded survey the black business that were thriving between 1915 and 1930 in Harlem were traditional businesses but it doesn't say anything about being on the "heels of jazz" like you claimed

Barbers, the beauty trade, and undertakers were the engines of the black economy.

It also talks about how whites owned 75% of the businesses in Harlem

A survey by NYA reporters in 1916 found that whites owned 75 percent of the 503 businesses in the area where blacks lived, and employed only 150 blacks

Black Businesses in 1920s Harlem

When blacks moved to Harlem to live, they also looked to relocate and establish businesses. While the number of Harlem’s residences that were home to blacks steadily expanded, the neighborhoo…

drstephenrobertson.com

My 5th grade teacher owns a jazz club which is still there today, called Bill's Place. The owners before him, were his uncles who made money from booking jazz acts in the 60's. Miles Davis always spoke about how mad black jazz club owners in the 60's would hide him from the police and people looking for him, when he had drama going on. Small's Paradise! Black-owned. Minton's Playhouse was also black-owned and would showcase black talent when the clubs downtown wouldn't. You're talking about what black people didn't own. I'm talking about what they DID. The Harlem Renaissance paid more blacks in the arts, dance, literature, politics, theater, fashion and education 100 years ago, than anything we see today. Langston Hughes was funded by black number runners, for his education at Columbia, before he chose to leave later. Come on, bro. Black people took care of black people back then.

I'm from Harlem. My family owned businesses Uptown. OC Glass, which was the check cashing place on Lenox, black-owned. Pan Pan diner, black-owned. When I was growing up, all the bars in my neighborhood were black-owned. The cleaners, the diners, the grocery stores, the restaurants. When my grandparents were coming up, the numbers were 65% of the economy in Harlem. That's a fact. Those number banks in Central Harlem were black-owned. The ones that wouldn't sell to the whites or worked for them. Carver Bank, black-owned. So your data is wrong. This is where I'm from. Where my people are from. People who STILL own homes and businesses in Harlem and Manhattan.

So again, back then, there was more being done for the people by the people. That's just a fact. So I don’t need Umar or anyone on the podcasts to tell me about what's missing from our communities, I've seen it.We all know it. I don’t have to Google it because it's where I grew up. We all know Hip Hop hasn't moved the needle for us as a people. Umar can be an idiot and right about this at the same time. More should be done. We are not where we should be as a whole, and it's logical to say that the vehicle we created should be benefiting us more than it is others.

 

[Plankton]

My 5th grade teacher owns a jazz club which is still there today, called Bill's Place. The owners before him, were his uncles who made money from booking jazz acts in the 60's. Miles Davis always spoke about how mad black jazz club owners in the 60's would hide him from the police and people looking for him, when he had drama going on. Small's Paradise! Black-owned. Minton's Playhouse was also black-owned and would showcase black talent when the clubs downtown wouldn't. You're talking about what black people didn't own. I'm talking about what they DID. The Harlem Renaissance paid more blacks in the arts, dance, literature, politics, theater, fashion and education 100 years ago, than anything we see today. Langston Hughes was funded by black number runners, for his education at Columbia, before he chose to leave later. Come on, bro. Black people took care of black people back then.

I'm from Harlem. My family owned businesses Uptown. OC Glass, which was the check cashing place on Lenox, black-owned. Pan Pan diner, black-owned. When I was growing up, all the bars in my neighborhood were black-owned. The cleaners, the diners, the grocery stores, the restaurants. When my grandparents were coming up, the numbers were 65% of the economy in Harlem. That's a fact. Those number banks in Central Harlem were black-owned. The ones that wouldn't sell to the whites or worked for them. Carver Bank, black-owned. So your data is wrong. This is where I'm from. Where my people are from. People who STILL own homes and businesses in Harlem and Manhattan.

So again, back then, there was more being done for the people by the people. That's just a fact. So I don’t need Umar or anyone on the podcasts to tell me about what's missing from our communities, I've seen it.We all know it. I don’t have to Google it because it's where I grew up. We all know Hip Hop hasn't moved the needle for us as a people. Umar can be an idiot and right about this at the same time. More should be done. We are not where we should be as a whole, and it's logical to say that the vehicle we created should be benefiting us more than it is others.

You jumped from "Jazz being the heel of Black businesses in Harlem" to just talking about Black businesses in Harlem that have nothing to do with Jazz.

I'm from NYC too. Lived in every borough at some point in my life including Harlem. Name dropping Pan Pan which burned down after that Alica Keys video tells me nothing. The Harlem Renaissance was 1920s and 1930's not 1960's. Thats why I posted that data because it literally speaks on the Black economy during that era. The same era where whites dominated 75% of the businesses. You jumping to the 60's was The Motown era and early Rhythm and Blues era not the Jazz era.

If my data is so wrong then you need to post proof that the Black economy and real estate ownership in Harlem was on the heels of Jazz like you claimed.

 

[DaHNIC82]

nikkah you can't even guide Sukihana

 

[Left.A1]

That shell of a fukking a school ain't did nothing for black people

 

[Awesome Wells]

You jumped from "Jazz being the heel of Black businesses in Harlem" to just talking about Black businesses that have nothing to do with Jazz.

I'm from NYC too. Lived in every borough at some point in my life including Harlem. The Harlem Renaissance was 1920s and 1930's not 1960's. Thats why I posted that data because it literally speaks on the Black economy during that era. The same era where whites dominated 75% of the businesses. You jumping to the 60's was The Motown era and early Rhythm and Blues era not the Jazz era.

If my data is so wrong then you need to post proof that the Black economy and real estate ownership in Harlem was on the heels of Jazz like you claimed.

I named a few jazz clubs and nightclubs, and how they helped the neighborhood and the people there. All of them were black-owned.

There's nothing to debate over. I'm from Harlem, so I saw how it changed from the 80's to present. My parents saw it. My grandparents saw it. And any other person from Harlem would say the same. I'm not focused on what other people owned. My focus is on what black people owned and what that meant for the neighborhood. That's not debatable.

The Renaissance point stands. Black people with money helped other black people. I don’t know what you're missing about that. But look up what Hughes said about his education back then, and how he got it. He speaks about it in mad of his poems. He credits black businessmen with helping him. All of the people I'm naming speak about how other black people helped them. That's the point here. The Renaissance point was about the start of black ownership, years later, bebop and jazz kept Harlem thriving because of patronage. Read any book from a jazz legend, they'll say the same. Clearly before my time, but common knowledge. Black athletes opening clubs in Harlem, musicians opening clubs during that span, etc. That's the point. This is history. Not my opinion. Back then, those generations took what they had by way of success, and put it back into where they were from. They built their own and owned homes where they spent their time.

That's the point here. Not Umar, not some podcast, not what "white people owned", etc. The point is how the black dollar in those days worked for black people when it was sizable enough. So if we're speaking about today, and a form of music that we created being a billion dollar business, of course black people should benefit from that if others are. I don’t get how that's even being debated. Dudes like Ed Smalls gave Malcolm X his first job. Malcolm spoke about that a lot. Smalls lived in Harlem, got rich in Harlem, and put his money back into Harlem. He was the first person to put Billie Holiday onstage. Waller, Bird, Coltrane, Garland and mad other jazz greats took that spot to new heights. Albert Einstein used to go there to listen to jazz! And because the spot was so popular, Smalls wanted to make sure to hire young black people from the neighborhood. A lot of those people would become legends in different fields. So this how black ownership and culture of that time impacted our own people.

And even though Hip Hop is making billions, we are not seeing that today. We all know that. That's the point here.

 

[Plankton]

The Renaissance point stands. Black people with money helped other black people. I don’t know what you're missing about that.

I post data. I don't do the "Because I said so" thing you are doing. I asked for data and you keep doing the "because I said so" thing.

Meanwhile, there are countless articles that explain that the Harlem Renaissance was not a grand contributor to the Black economy in Harlem like you claimed. As an Ex resident of Harlem, I was aware of this decades ago but you seem to be unaware of Harlems actual history during the Harlem Renaissance:


White support for the Harlem Renaissance came at a price, however. White patronage, white publicity for the Harlem Renaissance, white interest in what was going on in Harlem led New Yorkers from downtown up to Harlem to attend jazz clubs that blacks themselves could not attend. It turned Harlem into a sensation, a phenomenon, an event—something that Americans elsewhere in the country read about in mass-produced newspapers and magazines. Such publicity and support increasingly made the Harlem Renaissance financially dependent on white patronage. Blacks lacked the economic institutions and simply the money to support a full-scale cultural renaissance of this kind. As the twenties wore on, more and more black artists and writers came to resent their reliance on white economic support and the patronizing attitudes they encountered in some of their supporters.

source:

The Rise of Consumer Culture

However. The Harlem Renaissance was not a socio-economic movement, but a discreet collection of artists who lived in Harlem. We are grateful for their legacy but they all were not homeowners

source:

The Harlem Renaissance Was Not A Socio-Economic Movement

The Atlantic covers news, politics, culture, technology, health, and more, through its articles, podcasts, videos, and flagship magazine.

www.theatlantic.com

Overall the Harlem Renaissance was not a big economic or political movement, although there were organizations like the NUL that supported Harlem with economical ideologies, they never made a big change for lowering the disparities in wealth between blacks and Whites.

source:

The Social, Political and Economic Impact of the Harlem Renaissance - Free Essay Example - Edubirdie

One of the main goals of the Harlem Renaissance was proving that Black people were… For full essay go to Edubirdie.Com.

edubirdie.com

 

[Awesome Wells]

I post data. I don't do the "Because I said so" thing you are doing. I asked for data and you keep doing the "because I said so" thing.

Meanwhile, there are countless articles that explain that the Harlem Renaissance was not a grand contributor to the Black economy in Harlem like you claimed. As an Ex resident of Harlem, I was aware of this decades ago but you seem to be unaware of Harlems actual history during the Harlem Renaissance:


White support for the Harlem Renaissance came at a price, however. White patronage, white publicity for the Harlem Renaissance, white interest in what was going on in Harlem led New Yorkers from downtown up to Harlem to attend jazz clubs that blacks themselves could not attend. It turned Harlem into a sensation, a phenomenon, an event—something that Americans elsewhere in the country read about in mass-produced newspapers and magazines. Such publicity and support increasingly made the Harlem Renaissance financially dependent on white patronage. Blacks lacked the economic institutions and simply the money to support a full-scale cultural renaissance of this kind. As the twenties wore on, more and more black artists and writers came to resent their reliance on white economic support and the patronizing attitudes they encountered in some of their supporters.

source:

The Rise of Consumer Culture

However. The Harlem Renaissance was not a socio-economic movement, but a discreet collection of artists who lived in Harlem. We are grateful for their legacy but they all were not homeowners

source:

The Harlem Renaissance Was Not A Socio-Economic Movement

The Atlantic covers news, politics, culture, technology, health, and more, through its articles, podcasts, videos, and flagship magazine.

www.theatlantic.com

Overall the Harlem Renaissance was not a big economic or political movement, although there were organizations like the NUL that supported Harlem with economical ideologies, they never made a big change for lowering the disparities in wealth between blacks and Whites.

source:

The Social, Political and Economic Impact of the Harlem Renaissance - Free Essay Example - Edubirdie

One of the main goals of the Harlem Renaissance was proving that Black people were… For full essay go to Edubirdie.Com.

edubirdie.com

With all due respect, you're spending a lot of time Googling because you don’t know.

And that's cool, but nothing you're hitting the search engines for is relevant to what I've been saying this thread, lol. Everything you just posted are think-pieces. Those are opinions. And again that's fine, but I'm not talking about anything you're wasting time looking up. I didn't say ALL black people were homeowners. I said they were taking their money and putting it back into Harlem. And that more black people owned homes in Harlem then. Which is true. You're posting more sh*t comparing blacks to whites. Also, not what I'm focused on. Or even said anything about.

But bro, I get it. You find it fun to debate. But certain things aren't up for debate. And if you're going to fish for articles, at least find testimonials from the people who were there, and find what they said, so you can actually stay on topic. I'm speaking about what black people did with the black dollar compared to today, and you're talking about caucasian presence in Harlem in the 1920's. I'm talking about how black businessman helped employ future black legends, and how many of them credit other black people with helping them. I'm speaking about how Hip Hop should be about that today. Black people funding other black people and black initiatives. You're speaking about what black people lacked 100 years ago.

It doesn't make sense to reply to my posts if you're going to throw a bunch of unrelated articles in the thread that don’t address anything I'm saying. I'm speaking about cultural conditions and how we supported each other more through that in yesteryear with less, than we do today with more. And you're speaking about a bunch of irrelevant sh*t just to pass time, lol. You gotta stay on topic, bro.

 

[Plankton]

It doesn't make sense to reply to my posts if you're going to throw a bunch of unrelated articles in the thread that don’t address anything I'm saying. I'm speaking about cultural conditions and how we supported each other more through that in yesteryear with less, than we do today with more. And you're speaking about a bunch of irrelevant sh*t just to pass time, lol. You gotta stay on topic, bro.

You said Harlem was flooded with black businesses, black banks, and home ownership on the heels of Jazz.. You weren't around in the 1920's and neither was I so all we can use is data. I posted actual data from The New York Age which was a newspaper established in 1887 in New York City.

The New York Age - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

It was widely considered one of the most prominent African-American newspapers of its time and you said the data was wrong with no concrete proof that the data was wrong because you didn't like the fact that the data said that 75% of the businesses was white owned. Which is old facts.

You then spoke about the same Black owned businesses I saw in the 80's in Harlem that slowly started disappearing by the mid 90's. I remember Mart 125 thriving in the 90's only to be closed by the 2000's. I remember all those Black owned record shops on the 125th strip that just disappeared by the early 2000's. I remember when HMV popped up for a few years and was gone by 2004. I watched most of the Black owned businesses on the actual avenues go from FBA to west indians and Africans in the 90's. ( I can even tell you were specifically all the Health Food/weed spots were on the 7th ave strip in the 90's from the 150's down to the 130's and how a good portion of the weed dealers were yardies) Going on the hill in the 90's up to Broadway that instantly turns intro Dominican Republic part 2 which is dominated by Dominican owned businesses. Back when Dominicans would literally harass you to buy drugs from them when you walked in the block yet by the mid 2000's they stopped doing that and you had to know someone before getting "served"...Dominicans wasn't just walking up to you anymore like the 90's....But according to you...I don't know


You said: I'm speaking about what black people did with the black dollar compared to today, and you're talking about caucasian presence in Harlem in the 1920's. I'm talking about how black businessman helped employ future black legends, and how many of them credit other black people with helping them. Yeah homie...I'm talking about caucasian presence in Harlem in the 1920's jazz era because it was you who brought up that Harlem was flooded with black businesses, black banks, and home ownership on the heels of Jazz. Those are your words and with all the Juelzing you done in this thread you didn't one time connect Jazz to the Black economy in Harlem during the Harlem Renaissance. I posted articles that pointed out that Jazz strived the way it did on white dollars and support and you said it was a "think piece" If you didn't know that the Harlem Renaissance took off on a mainstream level due to white patronage, then you just don't know Harlem history because that is old news. You obviously don't know Harlem history if you think those are "think pieces" and "opinions" You are literally the 1st person I ever heard say that because you are denying well known facts. And with that, I now know you don't know Harlem Renaissance history and your claim of Harlem was flooded with black businesses, black banks, and home ownership on the heels of Jazz is inaccurate and doesn't match up to Dr Umars nonsense about a Black music genre contributing to Black economy on a grand scale, so I'm done with this convo.

 

[Awesome Wells]

You said Harlem was flooded with black businesses, black banks, and home ownership on the heels of Jazz.. You weren't around in the 1920's and neither was I so all we can use is data. I posted actual data from The New York Age which was a newspaper established in 1887 in New York City.

The New York Age - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

It was widely considered one of the most prominent African-American newspapers of its time and you said the data was wrong with no concrete proof that the data was wrong because you didn't like the fact that the data said that 75% of the businesses was white owned. Which is old facts.

You then spoke about the same Black owned businesses I saw in the 80's in Harlem that slowly started disappearing by the mid 90's. I remember Mart 125 thriving in the 90's only to be closed by the 2000's. I remember all those Black owned record shops on the 125th strip that just disappeared by the early 2000's. I remember when HMV popped up for a few years and was gone by 2004. I watched most of the Black owned businesses on the actual avenues go from FBA to west indians and Africans in the 90's. ( I can even tell you were specifically all the Health Food/weed spots were on the 7th ave strip in the 90's from the 150's down to the 130's and how a good portion of the weed dealers were yardies) Going on the hill in the 90's up to Broadway that instantly turns intro Dominican Republic part 2 which is dominated by Dominican owned businesses. Back when Dominicans would literally harass you to buy drugs from them when you walked in the block yet by the mid 2000's they stopped doing that and you had to know someone before getting "served"...Dominicans wasn't just walking up to you anymore like the 90's....But according to you...I don't know


You said: I'm speaking about what black people did with the black dollar compared to today, and you're talking about caucasian presence in Harlem in the 1920's. I'm talking about how black businessman helped employ future black legends, and how many of them credit other black people with helping them. Yeah homie...I'm talking about caucasian presence in Harlem in the 1920's jazz era because it was you who brought up that Harlem was flooded with black businesses, black banks, and home ownership on the heels of Jazz. Those are your words and with all the Juelzing you done in this thread you didn't one time connect Jazz to the Black economy in Harlem during the Harlem Renaissance. I posted articles that pointed out that Jazz strived the way it did on white dollars and support and you said it was a "think piece" If you didn't know that the Harlem Renaissance took off on a mainstream level due to white patronage, then you just don't know Harlem history because that is old news. You obviously don't know Harlem history if you think those are "think pieces" and "opinions" You are literally the 1st person I ever heard say that because you are denying well known facts. And with that, I now know you don't know Harlem Renaissance history and your claim of Harlem was flooded with black businesses, black banks, and home ownership on the heels of Jazz is inaccurate and doesn't match up to Dr Umars nonsense about a Black music genre contributing to Black economy on a grand scale, so I'm done with this convo.

You just told dude we should applaud the effort of “We’re All in the Same Gang” and “Self-Destruction”. But you have a problem with hearing about black people and black businessmen using the black dollar back in the day to help other black people?

I say that, and you want to speak about data and what it says about white people and their presence in Harlem 100 years ago?



Something about empowering black history and the efforts made back then seems to bother you. Which is maybe why you keep trying to pivot the talk into speaking about what white people did in Harlem. Why? I don’t know. Maybe you're white. But it's a slow night on here. I understand, bro. But you gotta do better.

 

[DontEemTry]

Umar is right about this, hiphop ain't achieved shyt for black people in 50 years but make a few nikkas rich and become the soundtrack for murder, violence, drugs and misogyny in the community (which were always there, but now they have a soundtrack to promote it). Those are facts that can't be disputed. AT ALL.

And instead of nikkas catchin feelins nikkas should be planning to turn that shyt around.

 

[prophecypro]

Somehow both got good points but argued it in terrible ways


Which is what I sort expected from Mouse Jones and Dr Umar having a convo

 

[Plankton]

Umar is right about this, hiphop ain't achieved shyt for black people in 50 years but make a few nikkas rich and become the soundtrack for murder, violence, drugs and misogyny in the community (which were always there, but now they have a soundtrack to promote it). Those are facts that can't be disputed. AT ALL.

And instead of nikkas catchin feelins nikkas should be planning to turn that shyt around.

Where did this rule that a music genre started by Black people is supposed to create banks and schools for the Black community? I never heard this about Doo Wop, Jazz, Funk, Rock N Roll or House music. R&B has been around almost 100 years and no one is demanding R&B creating schools and banks for the Black community. I wanna know what year this rule saying Hip Hop was supposed to build schools and banks started and why did this rule skip over R&B which was around longer?

 

[iliketurtles]

Umar is right about this, hiphop ain't achieved shyt for black people in 50 years but make a few nikkas rich and become the soundtrack for murder, violence, drugs and misogyny in the community (which were always there, but now they have a soundtrack to promote it). Those are facts that can't be disputed. AT ALL.

And instead of nikkas catchin feelins nikkas should be planning to turn that shyt around.

Go tell that to mickey mouse Kenny who does nothing but chat shyt