Elle Driver
Veteran
Shame.
Dr. Tommy Curry - Failure of Black Studies and Intersectionality
- Thread starter AlainLocke
- Start date
Good points.
I never expected to see anger in the root and I do not just mean this thread the one about Race and Religion is volitile too. We can disagree but we don't need to direct harsh words at each other in here.
Let me also say. I won't disregard the issues our women face that are from us or anyone else. But lately there has been a concerted effort toward division.
Elle Driver
Veteran
It’s too many trolls breh.
This speaks to nothing of the criminal homicide rate of intimate partners overall, much less of black couples. In fact, in the sentence right before it details that it was implemented to deal with various types of NON-homicidal intimate partner violence, not homicides.
To say that there was some huge error in the way intimate homicides were counted among black couples based on that would be a wild extrapolation of what it actually means.
It's understandable that there could be some error in the under reporting of non-homicidal violence of any kind, not just domestic. But it's VERY hard to fake body counts.
Now, with that said what is true based on the stats is that black men DO actually commit intimate partner homicides at a higher rate than black women. But, so does every group of non-black men in comparison to their female counter parts.
Black men do commit intimate homicides at a higher rate than non-black men(except Native American men who are roughly the same), but black people across the board in general commit homicide at a high rate than non-blacks. Yes, that still holds true of black women when compared to non-black women.
We, black men just so happen to fall on the intersection(no pun) of two categorical groups most prone to committing homicide- That being BLACK & MALE. So, it's not all that surprising that our group has the most intimate homicides of any other group. But, of course, it's certainly still not an excuse for these heinous crimes.
BUT, we can also look at the degree to which black women kill their spouses when compared to white women being greater than the degree to which black men do in comparison to white men.
Essentially black women are much more dangerous than white women in relationships, whereas black men are only a little more dangerous than white men in relationships in comparison.
If we want to make a more equitable comparison we could compare the rate in which men of group A commits DV homicides in comparison to the male average, and the women of group A in comparison to the female average, and then compare the respective disparities to get a clearer picture. Black female DV homicides deviates from the female average much more than black male DV homicides does with the male average.
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@omnifax care to elaborate on why you dapped that post without any data countering the data "she" allegedly analyzed?
I don't agree with what she presented in the post but I did like the fact that she did try to a least make a solid argument for her opinions on Dr. Curry. Most times these types of discussions almost immediately deteriorate into name calling sessions with no real arguments made. He/she made some attempt at a civil discussion.
Indiglow Meta (R$G)
Ultra.
Do you still feel the same way after he/she totally failed at whatever it/her/them was trying to do?
As for the other brother in the thread who said "Don't make this an us vs them, be civil and try to keep it from becoming something like the white man's response to feminism"
Man...fukk THAT...That high road civility bullshyt doesn't work in America or anywhere in real life. It's curtains for that. It's time to break up that lil party and be done with any movement like "intersectionality" forever. Cut all the heads off and maintain pressure. Never give quarter to an enemy, especially an internal one. They're not "lost little girls".
Indiglow Meta (R$G)
Ultra.
They had 40-50 years of media centrism, propaganda, books, Kimberle Crenshaw, oprah, and the lot. Naw...it's time to turn the volume down on that collective set of half-truths. They had their turn to speak already. Cut off the mic.
I said in my initial post that I didn't agree with what he/she was saying merely that an attempt at a civil conversation is nice to see on this forum. As far as "cutting off heads" I have no problem with calling out incorrect behavior as well as having a difference of ideas and opinions but lets not go overboard with the hateful rhetoric towards another black person (if they are indeed black) because we all know that white people are the problem.
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I love how this is flipped this into bw vs bm but claim this is what I am doing.
That was never my argument in the first place. I watch tommy Currys video and the major point that attracted everyone to this video was that the more women killing men during that period 70s to 80s period this is what i honed in. Also the tone of the rest of video.
I did not claim violence does not occur nor that poverty is not a contributing factor..this is what was ran with...to make me a troll or someone arguing for the sake arguing by indiglow and everyone jumped in.
A fair way to present stats is not honing in on a Stat without presenting the totality of the Stat pros and cons.
This was derailed to another topic that i was never talking about by another poster. Tommy curry has said himself that he is a spokesperson for mainly black male issues to bring balance to conversations of black feminism which is why I said he can't now nitpick black women who focus on black female issues if he intends of doing the same thing. Or else he would speak of communal issues regardless of gender.
These type of conversations need to also be had with academics men or women who are not trying to make either gender look better at the expense of the other but speaks of the black community as a whole in an objective manner to discuss social issues without pushing an agenda.
Finally nd..stats are created by the majority when does a Stat get trusted? When it makes only positive commentary to ones own particular group? I studied statistics and it is easy to manipulate.
I'll address the rest of your post in the next post.
1 - I was not trying to claim that black men were unique in killing women more as opposed to male groups.I was simply showing that BW killing more men than men killing women is not accurate. This particular stat is the claim to fame to discredit the article that was in question...which by the way I did not agree with starting with the title. Mainly because I don't like using inflammatory/inaccurate language to address real issues. It is counterproductive to the objective of addressing social issues.
2 - That goes without saying that adult men killing adult women as it is consistent with the multiple stats across the board that have been done over the years when it comes to fatal domestic violence.
3 - Yes we can look at that, as stated by the stat and it would be a fair assertion if the comparisons were made along gender groups instead of intra-racially in this case, the comparisons made in Tommy curry was between BW and BM...not according to gender group they belong to.
4 - I'll have to revisit that stat that made you come to that conclusion. Can you provide it? Women should be compared to women and men should be compared to men...I agree.
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1- I do not agree with statements like that neither...it is not conducive to actual dialogue AND I do not like stat manipulation. Poverty does create violence there is no denying that.
2 - Again...you made my partial point, that discussing that alone without considering the social issues that encapsulate a stat is counterproductive. You can look at a statistic by itself. You have to look at the social climate, look at several surveys/reports made by different orgs (to counter the contingency of human error in recording statistics) before a declarative statement can be made.
I found the studies at this blog by Dr. Hasan Johnson
Black Masculinism and New Black Masculinities
“From Amadou Diallo to Mike Brown: Challenging the Institutionalized Profitization of Black Male Hatred in Law Enforcement, Media, and Extremist Black Feminism” by T. Hasan Johnson, Ph.D.
All you gotta do is research the names on Google and get the study....
- “64% of Black male middle school and high school students had been emotionally abused by a girlfriend” (**** & Espelage, 2005).
- “91% of Black male undergraduates reported that their girlfriends had insulted or cursed at them, refused to talk to them, or said something to spite them” (Clark, Beckett, Wells, & Dungee-Anderson, 1994).
- “Similarly high rates were found among economically disadvantaged Black youth (ages 16 to 24) who were enrolled in Job Corps, a government-sponsored education and training program. A substantial number (48%) of these Black men had been degraded and 67% had been either insulted or called names by a girlfriend” (West & Rose, 2000).
- “Using a single-item measure, several scholars found comparable rates of victimization (7.2%) among Black male high school students in Minnesota (Ackard & Neumark-Sztainer, 2002) and in nationally representative high school samples. For example, 6.3% of young Black men had been beaten up by the person they had dated in the 30 days prior to the survey (Valois, Oeltmann, Waller, & Hussey, 1999) and 7.9% indicated that a girlfriend had threatened to or had actually physically hurt them (Ackard et al., 2003). Investigators found similar amounts of victimization among Black male high school students: 13.5% (Eaton, Davis, Barrios, Brener, & Noonan, 2007) and 10.6% (Howard & Wang, 2003) responded “yes” when asked “During the past 12 months, did your girlfriend ever hit, slap, or physically hurt you on purpose?”\
- “For example, when researchers utilized the Victimization Dating Relationship Scale, slightly more than one half (53%) of a sample of Black male middle and high school students reported dating violence victimization (**** & Espelage, 2005). However, most researchers have used the Conflict Tactics Scale (CTS) or a modified version of this scale, which categorized intimate partner violence as minor (e.g., threw objects, pushed, grabbed, shoved, and slapped) or severe (e.g., choked, beat up, used weapons; Straus, 1979).
- Based on the CTS, Clark and colleagues (1994) discovered that 41% of the Black college men in their sample had been physically abused by a partner at least once. The aggression most often took the form of pushing, slapping, or hitting. Similarly, 35% of young (19- to 20-year-old) Black men in a low-income community sample had been hit, punched, or slapped (16.3%); pushed, grabbed, or shoved (13.5%); and scratched or bit (10.4%) by a partner (O’Donnell et al., 2006). However, more severe acts were found when the CTS was administered to Job Corps participants. More specifically, the young men in this sample had been beaten up (16.9%) and choked (18.5%) by a girlfriend. In addition, an alarming number had been threatened with a knife or gun (25%) or actually assaulted with a weapon (13%; West & Rose, 2000).”
- “The rates of psychological, sexual, and physical dating violence perpetrated against Black men are unacceptably high. In fact, Rouse (1988) noted that when compared to White and Latino male undergraduates, “among dating students in this sample, the highest percentages for partner’s use of physical force and consequences experienced as a result were for Black men” (p. 318). Although researchers did not survey both members of the couple, an examination of gender differences revealed that Black women reported using more violence against boyfriends than Black men reported using against their girlfriends (Clark et al., 1994; DeMaris, 1990).”
Nevermind I found them. I am reading it right now.
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