Did/Will you watch HBO Scientology doc "Going Clear"?

KalKal

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To me, the only reason somebody would want to actively be a Scientologist is:

1. They're truly lost, and they just happened to stumble upon the worst answer/solution possible.

2. They're megalomaniac's/power hungry people who think they can pimp the Scientology/Hollywood system to their benefit. Some succeed (Miscavage/Cruise) most do not (Everybody else)

#1 I feel sorry for, #2 I do not.

Of the two main celebrities (Cruise and Travolta), I think Travolta is the true "slave/hostage" (or #1) and Cruise is the very definition of #2.

I don't think Cruise is trapped in the slightest, I think he's a megalomaniac who uses the resources at his whim to do what he wants and so far, it's working out just fine for him.


I was surprised to see how different John Travolta and Tom Cruise came off. Travolta just seemed pathetic. Cruise looked almost as if he was being groomed to take over the cult.

Before I saw this I thought L Ron Hubbard was just a scammer. But based on the movie, it looks like he was actually crazy enough to believe his own stuff. He actually had a guy built a tesla coil to electrocute the thetans in his body just before he died.
 

klutch2381

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About to watch this right now. :ehh:

For the record, Will Smith isn't a Scientologist. He has some strong metaphysical views (as do his children if you're read their interviews) if anything:

He's also said who is he to judge someone else's beliefs, when he believes a man raised himself from the dead.
 

Makavalli

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No more Cruise flicks on HBO? Didnt he try to shut down south park after the scientology episode? Like he wouldnt do promo for one of his films or some shyt? Fukkin up his $$$ for that cult life
 

TheDarceKnight

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I was surprised to see how different John Travolta and Tom Cruise came off. Travolta just seemed pathetic. Cruise looked almost as if he was being groomed to take over the cult.

Before I saw this I thought L Ron Hubbard was just a scammer. But based on the movie, it looks like he was actually crazy enough to believe his own stuff. He actually had a guy built a tesla coil to electrocute the thetans in his body just before he died.

I felt the same way about Travolta. I felt like, if he didn't leave? Especially after they treated his friend like that in the prison camp? They must've had some crazy shyt over his head. I didn't realize the people interviewed for this documentary were like, HIGH LEVEL officials for the organization. The fact that one of them had audited Travolta and Cruise countless times and actually compiled the smear PR campaign for Travolta if he decided to bounce from the church was crazy.

The way they got between Cruise and Nicole Kidman when he was drifting from the church? And how they turned her kids against her and reigned him back in?
:ohhh:


Overall one of the biggest things I took away was the Hubbard probably ended up believing a lot of his own crazy shyt, and was a crazy person that needed a lot of help. He wasn't in just for the money, he never bounced and ran with the cash, never set up a successor, etc. The guy that runs that church now is so creepy and evil looking. I thought it was good news that they said the membership is lower than ever. I hope this documentary helps out. This shyt is so damaging, and it's clear that it's ruined so many people's lives. I used to always kinda rag on people that fell for cults, and say they were weak-minded, even after some Jonestown documentaries, but for some reason the people in this really made me see that under the right circumstances, this stuff can happen to almost anyone.

Here's that uncut Cruise video where he's looney tunes
 

steadyrighteous

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I felt the same way about Travolta. I felt like, if he didn't leave? Especially after they treated his friend like that in the prison camp? They must've had some crazy shyt over his head. I didn't realize the people interviewed for this documentary were like, HIGH LEVEL officials for the organization. The fact that one of them had audited Travolta and Cruise countless times and actually compiled the smear PR campaign for Travolta if he decided to bounce from the church was crazy.

The way they got between Cruise and Nicole Kidman when he was drifting from the church? And how they turned her kids against her and reigned him back in?
:ohhh:


Overall one of the biggest things I took away was the Hubbard probably ended up believing a lot of his own crazy shyt, and was a crazy person that needed a lot of help. He wasn't in just for the money, he never bounced and ran with the cash, never set up a successor, etc. The guy that runs that church now is so creepy and evil looking. I thought it was good news that they said the membership is lower than ever. I hope this documentary helps out. This shyt is so damaging, and it's clear that it's ruined so many people's lives. I used to always kinda rag on people that fell for cults, and say they were weak-minded, even after some Jonestown documentaries, but for some reason the people in this really made me see that under the right circumstances, this stuff can happen to almost anyone.

Here's that uncut Cruise video where he's looney tunes


That's part of what makes this doc so damning.

It's one thing to have foot soldiers cry foul, but when the guy you used to send out to do damage control for 15+ years says you guys are shady, it's a wrap.
 

TheDarceKnight

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I loved when they revealed the ultimate scientology secret in that briefcase and the one dude's reaction was "WHAT THE fukk?!"

:russ:
South park told that whole creation myth wonderfully. I was wondering how Scientologists early in the game don't see it and question it, but then when they explained that you're usually years into the church and have given them thousands and thousands of dollars and already well indoctrinated by the time they tell it to you, it made sense. Plus, that one guy in there for 30 years said that he'd been discouraged from reading about Scientology online and that he'd never seen one critical video of the religion until he left. Scary shyt.

That's part of what makes this doc so damning.

It's one thing to have foot soldiers cry foul, but when the guy you used to send out to do damage control for 15+ years says you guys are shady, it's a wrap.

Exactly. I really feel bad that these people are being harassed constantly, but it's good that they're speaking out. I think they'll help a lot of people and make a difference by participating in this documentary. One thing the documentary didn't say that I saw this morning....

The head of the church, David Miscavige----his wife (the "first lady" of Scientology) has been missing since like 2007. She just vanished in 2007 without a trace. Most defectors from the religion think that she was sent to a secret compound and has been a prisoner there ever since, either against her will or by her own accord.

http://www.vanityfair.com/style/2014/03/shelly-miscavige-scientology-queen-de-throned

The greater tragedy of Shelly, says Marc Headley, is that “she’s probably the one person who could just end it tomorrow. If she just walked away from the whole craziness and said, ‘O.K., this is where all the fukking bodies are buried—this is what he did with this, this is what he did with that—let’s fukking burn it down,’ it would be done.”

:damn:
 
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Black Magisterialness

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This is a valid point and important observation. My boy brought this to my attention when we were discussing it. Now let me preface this by saying i ABSOLUTELY believe that scientology is a dangerous cult with a sinister motive and I'm not calling the people who were interviewed liars. However, when you really break it down, this movie is just a collection of interviews with ex-scientologists talking shyt about the church. There's no cold hard evidence of anything, no hidden camera footage, etc... we're just supposed to believe what these ex-members say. Now, i definitely believe where there's smoke there's fire so i'd be inclined to believe these guys are telling the truth but if you're a skeptic u gotta look at it from both angles.

Also, random ? : why are Cruise/Travolta never seen in the same room together?

IDK the stalking footage coupled with the legal documentation is pretty damning. I kinda tuned out to the torture stuff, not because I don't believe it but because I take it with a grain of salt. I think the legal maneuvering and the brainwashing + auditing dirt was WAY more damaging and sinister.
 

Black Magisterialness

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The way they got between Cruise and Nicole Kidman when he was drifting from the church? And how they turned her kids against her and reigned him back in?
:ohhh:

Katie Holmes basically said the same thing didn't she? She had to like rent a secret apartment in NYC and have burner phones and shyt.
 

TheDarceKnight

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Yeah this shyt is obviously repugnant and disgusting, but we also have a country where the majority of the people are getting real excited to celebrate Zombie Jesus literally coming back from the dead next week.

:francis:
True. But I side with Sam Harris a bit in terms of the "Even if all x beliefs are wrong, some can be more ridiculous than others." I know alot of people disagree, and just day "well if it's false, it's false." That's true, and there are ridiculous myths in every religion that make no sense (living inside of a whale, returning from the dead, etc. But people living as they were in the 1950's, millions of years ago, and being frozen by a galactic overlord, flown by DC-8 airplanes and dropped into volcanoes, then exploded with hydrogen bombs, and having the souls inhabit babies as their born, to cause stress and anxiety, needing to be cleared out for sanity----that's maybe the craziest I've ever heard.

But I agree with you. people waiting on the rapture any day now are nuts. It's all goofy.
 

Jen The Prude

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It's no surprise they don't value formal education/see it as threat seeing that their top honcho couldn't even managed to complete high school. HIGH SCHOOL!

People with intellectual insecurities are usually the most ostensibly arrogant and vocal about their 'intellectual prowess'.
 
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