Did Haitians Really Help Free Black Americans?

get these nets

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I do not support Trump. You can continue to lie and be bothered. :smile:

AND this is the Root and this is history -- how is this shytting on anyone -- and post where and when I have ever shytted on immigrants.

Grow up.

Reported.
I hope that The Root remains the Root, and that the discussions here remain civil.

I don't know whether this thread spilled over from an argument on another section of the board, TLR.

Like I said, I gave OP the benefit of the doubt that he asked a legitimate question in good faith. Whether or not he responds, and how will show what his intentions were.
==
In general, the D measuring contests using excerpted info to bolster one group or disparage another is for little kids. Makes my skin crawl when it surfaces here. The person is not looking for a discussion, but for just enough info to validate their stance. Lot of decent discussions have gotten ruined in the Root by people who play by kiddie rules.
 

xoxodede

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I hope that The Root remains the Root, and that the discussions here remain civil.

I don't know whether this thread spilled over from an argument on another section of the board, TLR.

Like I said, I gave OP the benefit of the doubt that he asked a legitimate question in good faith. Whether or not he responds, and how will show what his intentions were.
==
In general, the D measuring contests using excerpted info to bolster one group or disparage another is for little kids. Makes my skin crawl when it surfaces here. The person is not looking for a discussion, but for just enough info to validate their stance. Lot of decent discussions have gotten ruined in the Root by people who play by kiddie rules.

I agree. The poster that I responded too has some issues with me -- but you know I don't care. He lies and those that know my history -- know I am not anti-Black immigrant or a Trump supporter.

I digress.

I respect and revere Haitian history and people -- and my post responding to the OP - was not disrespectful -- or anti-Black immigrant -- but truthful and honest. It is apart of the story/history -- and not including it would not give the full picture -- a major part of history and contribution.

I am also protective and a advocate of ADOS history -- and understand that others (ADOS and non-ADOS) need to educated on ADOS history.
 
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get these nets

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Around 14:00 to 15:00 -- the author does speak about regionalism -- but from his description that would def be classified as favoritism -- and in my opinion anti-AA.

As the author stated they looked at non-AA as closer to them (whites) - because they didn't have the "scar of slavery" and have better relations to sergeants due to lack of emotional connection to the war and enslavement.

So, I'm not saying the non-AA soliders were anti-AA -- but Whites have a long-history of pitting non-AA against/comparing AA's to each other. His explanation is the same many Whites use today as the reason they faux favor non-AA's.
That part of the discussion begins about how the White officers from Mass. viewed the North Carolina Black soldiers compared to the Mass. Black soldiers, both groups being mostly or exclusively AA.

Author answers questions about how the Canadians fit into the existing system of perceptions.

Slavery was abolished up to 2 generations earlier in some of the Northern states, so the perceived detachment from enslavement would have existed among the Northerners. But not to any great degree among either group because they enlisted in a war to crush the confederacy and the system of slavery.
 

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random question that will end with op's desired result im sure
Dip,
I always wonder what your views are in Inter ethnic or Inter nationality debates. You are part-everything.

"I'm like all races combined in 1 man- like the 99 Summer Jam"

Hahahaha

The existence of bi-cultural Black people, and the documented prevalence of cross cultural marriages and unions is one of things I always bring up in the "those people are that way" threads in TLR.
Either all these marriages over the decades are anomalies, or there are holes in the "those people are x,y,z" rhetoric.
 

BigMan

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Dip,
I always wonder what your views are in Inter ethnic or Inter nationality debates. You are part-everything.

"I'm like all races combined in 1 man- like the 99 Summer Jam"

Hahahaha

The existence of bi-cultural Black people, and the documented prevalence of cross cultural marriages and unions is one of things I always bring up in the "those people are that way" threads in TLR.
Either all these marriagesover the are anomalies, or there are holes in the "those people are x,y,z" rhetoric.
i'm more tri or quad-cultural so I'm an anomaly. The Coli isn't known for nuance (on any topic) but any questions you have or if you want to hear my thoughts on something just @ me.
 

xoxodede

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That part of the discussion begins about how the White officers from Mass. viewed the North Carolina Black soldiers compared to the Mass. Black soldiers, both groups being mostly or exclusively AA.

Author answers questions about how the Canadians fit into the existing system of perceptions.

Slavery was abolished up to 2 generations earlier in some of the Northern states, so the perceived detachment from enslavement would have existed among the Northerners. But not to any great degree among either group because they enlisted in a war to crush the confederacy and the system of slavery.

I just downloaded the book -- and going to read this week. I will be back with what I learned. Any more resources or books you can share on this topic?
 

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That Sailor link is interesting as all get out. Looking up their records on Family Search.

So far, the non-AA are FPOC who immigrated over YEARS before ADOS ancestors were emancipated. Basically, after the Revolutionary War. AAME :

I am thinking many were drafted and had to enlist. Like other immigrants. They weren't listed as USCT -- they were just enlisted as apart of the Union it appears. They are mostly listed as support - like Cooks and Servants. Like how the Confederates did enslaved men in the South.

Also, many are listed as "Yellow" for race. I wonder what that means.

And what's crazy I am seeing that many were from families who supported the American Colonization Society and went to Liberia. Like: John Brown Russwurm - Wikipedia

I didn't know so many Black people were immigrating over during enslavement. I wonder how they felt after our ancestors emancipation.

Do you have any resources on the relations between the Native Blacks and Black Immigrants after emancipation?

Thanks for a new research project!

You're welcome and I should have replied to this post first.

The term"USCT" was loaded politically at the time. Govt. giving the green light for AA soldiers caused backlash. USCT troops were under federal auspices, not state. Technically the 54th wasn't USCT at the time, they were formed and commanded under state control., The men who served in the USN,US Navy , might not have fallen under the USCT banner either. Which would explain why they aren't listed as such.

Early duties and responsibilities for Black soldiers and sailors on both sides was in support capacities. When they were finally allowed in combat, it was the beginning of the end for the confederacy.

The yellow label in the soldier descriptions, were filled out by the enrollment administrator as a physical description. Interviewer mentions that the intake info for enlistees was also used as info to locate them if they deserted.

There was a steady stream of Black immigrants coming into this country since the antebellum period. There were spikes here and there, but Black emigration here isn't new. Slavery occurred and was active in the countries that the immigrants were from, up until the revolts forced
abolishment or the govt. emancipated the people.
Entire Western hemisphere was active in slavery.

What happens is that although the numbers weren't what they would become later, the Black immigrants ended up in metro areas that were key hubs of African American social,political, and cultural development. The contributions of individuals from those immigrant groups, good and bad, are well documented as a result of this, and are in greater proportion than what their actual population in the country was.

This pattern would be repeated in the 20th century in Harlem. We discussed 1920-40s era Harlem before.
At least a quarter of the Black population was English speaking Caribbeans. With Harlem being the cultural,social, commercial,artistic, and political capital of America(and the English speaking world) at the time, the immigrant groups would have interactions and contributions to those worlds in greater proportion than what their numbers were as percentage of the Black population. As you've pointed out, that applies to positives and negatives.

Populations of immigrants in Philly, Boston, New Orleans among other cities had similar influence,from the antebellum period through Reconstruction, and since then.

I had an archive of old books and magazine articles about this topic. Hard drive crashed, and people don't return books. Everything turns up in digital format eventually, so as I build the archive back up, will continue to post in this section.


Was discouraged the past year or so by the TLR antics that have found their way here to the Root.


Very disappointing feeling to engage in a serious debate and to have the other guy refuse to concede proven points, duck information, or use deflection/filibustereing to avoid admitting that facts prove him WRONG.

It especially bothers me because I know when a person has made their point/refuted my point, and I readily concede. So, like I said, TLR tactics here and kiddie tactics in other sections have followed most threads related to the topic. Hard to accept that adults are moving like this.
 
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xoxodede

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You're welcome and I should have replied to this post first.

The term"USCT" was loaded politically at the time. Govt. giving the green light for AA soldiers caused backlash. USCT troops were under federal auspices, not state. Technically the 54th wasn't USCT at the time, they were formed and commanded under state control., The men who served in the USN,US Navy , might not have fallen under the USCT banner either. Which would explain why they aren't listed as such.

Early duties and responsibilities for Black soldiers and sailors on both sides was in support capacities. When they were finally allowed in combat, it was the beginning of the end for the confederacy.

The yellow label in the soldier descriptions, were filled out by the enrollment administrator as a physical description. Interviewer mentions that the intake info for enlistees was also used as info to locate them id they deserted.

There was a steady stream of Black immigrants coming into this country since the antebellum period. There were spikes here and there, but Black emigration here isn't new. Slavery occurred and was active in the countries that the immigrants were from, up until the revolts forced
abolishment or the govt. emancipated the people.
Entire Western hemisphere was active in slavery.

What happens is that although the numbers weren't what they would become later, the Black immigrants ended up in metro areas that were key hubs of African American social,political, and cultural development. The contributions of individuals from those immigrant groups, food and bad, are well documented as a result of this, and are in greater proportion than what their actual population in the country was.

This pattern would be repeated in the 20th century in Harlem. We discussed 1920-40s era Harlem before.
At least a quarter of the Black population was English speaking Caribbeans. With Harlem being the cultural,social, commercial,artistic, and political capital of America(and the English speaking world) at the time, the immigrant groups would have interactions and contributions to those worlds in greater proportion than what their numbers were as percentage of the Black population. As you've pointed out, that applies to positives and negatives.

Populations of immigrants in Philly, Boston, New Orleans among other cities had similar influence,from the antebellum period through Reconstruction, and since then.

I had an archive of old books and magazine articles about this topic. Hard drive crashed, and people don't return books. Everything turns up in digital format eventually, so as I build the archive back up, will continue to post in this section.


Was discouraged the past year or so by the TLR antics that have found their way here to the Root.
Not sure If you watch football. The GOAT football player is Jim Brown. Athletes are notoriously competitive, but there's a clip of JB talking about the code of being a running back. The Warrior's Code. No ducking out of bounds, no cowardice against defenders.
He retired early, so years later there were a handful of running backs who were approaching his record. He went on record saying that he didn't respect certain players who didn't play by the Warrior's Code.
He would later openly praise the man who did break his record, Walter Payton. Cut from the same cloth that he was. He conceded the record and passed the torch to him.

Very disappointing feeling to engage in a serious debate and to have the other guy refuse to concede proven points, duck information, or use deflection/filibustereing to avoid admitting that facts prove him WRONG.

It especially bothers me because I know when a person has made their point/refuted my point, and I readily concede. So, like I said, TLR tactics here and kiddie tactics in other sections have followed most threads related to the topic. Hard to accept that adults are moving like this.

Thanks for your response. I was confused on the USCT label -- so I am grateful you explained.

I need to learn more about the the Black people in the Union from the North -- their experiences and stories.

I am guessing since they served as servants and cooks - the Union was segregated as well? I am sure they went through a lot of ish with the White immigrants (Irish) who didn't even want to fight in the first place. See: New York City Draft Riots

I apologize if I came off as engaging in any of those tactics. It is never my intent -- unless stated or obvious when responding back at someone coming at me. And I don't to that or try to engage in that in The Root.

On Black Immigration:
The link you shared really opened up my eyes to Black immigration. I researched some names on FamilySearch.org -- and I saw some early as 1817. I am sure it's way earlier than that.

Black immigrants have a long and honorable history in the U.S. -- and it's never my intent to take away or diminish that.

But, when overstatement of their influence on our ancestors fight and freedom does rub me the wrong way. It's a way to honor them but be respectful to the long-standing history of our ancestors fighting and freeing emancipating themselves.

My area of interest has always been ADOS history and ADOS genealogy - so for ME the history I know the most about is gens de couleur libres and their history in Lousiana and Alabama.

Since they are apart of my ancestors experience -- and my DNA.

Even with gens de couleur libres -- it's many of them who have been extremely influential and supportive to ADOS and ADOS culture and communities.

But, as I have stated many times before - I love learning about Haitian history and people -- and have always made sure I have been uber respectful.

I will continue to research the topic and learn more.
 
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IllmaticDelta

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Around 14:00 to 15:00 -- the author does speak about regionalism -- but from his description that would def be classified as favoritism -- and in my opinion anti-AA.

As the author stated they looked at non-AA as closer to them (whites) - because they didn't have the "scar of slavery" and have better relations to sergeants due to lack of emotional connection to the war and enslavement.

So, I'm not saying the non-AA soliders were anti-AA -- but Whites have a long-history of pitting non-AA against/comparing AA's to each other. His explanation is the same many Whites use today as the reason they faux favor non-AA's.


I wouldn't call that anti-ADOS; that's more anti-recently enslaved & Southern vs pro-Northern FPOC. Both people were pretty much ADOS stock.
 

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I wouldn't call that anti-ADOS; that's more anti-recently enslaved & Southern vs pro-Northern FPOC. Both people were pretty much ADOS stock.

I think you spoke about that relationship dynamic before right? Do you have the link to that thread?

Did the Pro-Northern FPOC support the Union/emancipation -- or were they like many of the FPOC of the South -- seeing it as a issue and against it - due to them wanting to keep their status?

I got the Anti-ADOS feeling cause he stated Whites -- saw them as closer to them -- and they didn't have the scar of slavery and the emotional involvement. But, thinking more about his comment -- I guess that could mean cause many of them had education and many had businesses and reputable specialized (barbers, carpenters, etc) jobs. So, they were closer to whites in the North due to that.

For those who did feel like that -- if they were ADOS stock -- for them to not have a emotional connection to the enslavement of 4 million people just seems off to me.

But, I understand -- as they were freed during the Revolutionary War and more than likely didn't have any enslaved family members.
 

IllmaticDelta

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I think you spoke about that relationship dynamic before right? Do you have the link to that thread?

somewhere in that thread starting here

https://www.thecoli.com/threads/the...d-great-migration.742411/page-5#post-37224804

Did the Pro-Northern FPOC support the Union/emancipation -- or were they like many of the FPOC of the South -- seeing it as a issue and against it - due to them wanting to keep their status?

From what I've seen, the Northern FPOC were far more pro emancipation than the Southern (the ones who lived in the South) ones



I got the Anti-ADOS feeling cause he stated Whites -- saw them as closer to them -- and they didn't have the scar of slavery and the emotional involvement. But, thinking more about his comment -- I guess that could mean cause many of them had education and many had businesses and reputable specialized (barbers, carpenters, etc) jobs. So, they were closer to whites in the North due to that.

this



For those who did feel like that -- if they were ADOS stock -- for them to not have a emotional connection to the enslavement of 4 million people just seems off to me.

But, I understand -- as they were freed during the Revolutionary War and more than likely didn't have any enslaved family members.

The Northern FPOC didn't really have those type of thoughts on their enslaved Southern brothers/sisters....especially not in the way that many FPOC in the South often looked at the enslaved/recently freed


The Black Yankees


The newly formed Black Yankee ethnicity of the early 1800s differed from today’s African-American ethnicity. Modern African-American ethnic traits come from a post-bellum blending of three cultural streams: the Black Yankee ethnicity of 1830, the slave traditions of the antebellum South, and the free Creole or Mulatto elite traditions of the lower South. Each of the three sources provided elements of the religious, linguistic, and folkloric traditions found in today’s African-American ethnicity.30

Black Yankee ethnicity was also not the same thing as membership in America’s Black endogamous group. The difference between Black Yankee ethnicity and Black endogamous group membership is that ethnicity is to some extent voluntary whereas which side of the color line you are on is usually involuntary. Mainstream America assigns to the Black side of the endogamous color line people of many different ethnicities whose only common trait is a dark-brown skin tone. These include West Indians, some East Indians (sometimes), recent African immigrants, and (until recently) African-looking Muslims and Hispanics. Finally, the endogamous color line was imposed in 1691 but the earliest evidence of Black Yankee ethnicity dates from the mid 1700s.

Although less wealthy than the Louisiana Creoles, the Black Yankees had developed a strong supportive culture that could withstand the buffeting of social upheaval. They were usually ostracized from mainstream society due to the endogamous color line. According to contemporary accounts, they responded with grace and dignity, making a virtue of their separation. It was not uncommon to see lines of quiet, well-behaved children following their parents to Sunday service with the gravitas and pietas of Roman elders. Their preachers taught that they were put on earth to be tested.31 Their lot was to serve as example to the white folks of how civilized Christians behave.

Most Black Yankees distinguished themselves from slaves—indeed many families had no history of slavery but descended from indentured servants. Nevertheless, many were active contributors to and activists in the abolition movement. This is in strong contrast to the biracial elite of the Gulf coast and Latin America, who owned slaves and defended slavery as a noble institution.32 The contrast was due to the lack of an independent Black ethnicity among Hispanic planters of part-African ancestry, and this lack was due, in turn, to the absence of an endogamous color line.

In some ways, Black Yankee culture (religion, language, music, dance, food, costume) was indistinguishable from that of White Yankees. For example, the boisterous interactive style of many African-American church services today would have been alien to them, since it originated in the slaveholding South. Daniel A. Payne was a Black Yankee, a career AME minister in Philadelphia. He was a sympathizer of the Underground Railroad, so its organizers asked him to preach to a group of newly escaped slaves. His diary reports:

After the sermon, they formed a ring, and with coats off sung, clapped their hands and stamped their feet in a most ridiculous and heathenish way. I requested that the pastor go and stop their dancing. At his request they stopped their dancing and clapping of hands, but remained singing and rocking their bodies to and fro.33

Although the endogamous color line was stricter in the antebellum North than in the antebellum South, it was less strict in 1850 and 1860 than in 1970 and 1980.34 The children of interracial marriages in the Northeast were usually census-reported as “Negroes” rather than as “Mulattoes.” This resembles today’s customs and contrasts with the more permeable color lines of the lower South. According to Joel Williamson, “In 1850 in the five states of Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, Michigan, and Wisconsin, mulattoes actually outnumbered blacks by 24,000 to 22,000, while in the older-settled New England and Middle Atlantic states blacks outnumbered mulattoes by about three to one.”35


The Black Yankees set many of the patterns of modern African-American life. They developed the supportive church-centered social structure found in African-American communities today
. Long before the South was segregated, they faced isolation and cyclical rejection by mainstream society. They were also the first to articulate the dilemma that continues to occupy Black thinkers to this day: integration versus separatism.

https://www.thecoli.com/threads/defining-the-african-american.337371/page-5#post-14350768
 

IllmaticDelta

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Wow. Listening now. It has been anti-ADOS/native Blacks since day one - when compared to other Black people.

Sad.

Thanks for posting - listening now.


Those black canadians being talked about in that link were overwhelmingly ADOS; again, this was a matter (in the eyes of white people) of FPOC vs enslaved/recently freed.

DvKtKRP.jpg




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obviously whites were going to look down on contraband like

Possible%20Contraband%20Slave%2C%20Photograph%20by%20B.%20Moses%2C%20New%20Orleans%2C%201864-66%2C%20Library%20of%20Congress%2C%20LOT%2014022%2C%20no.%20172.jpg




vs the FPOC types like

Anderson_Ruffin_Abbott_1863.jpg



Anderson Ruffin Abbott, Canada’s first black doctor, was born April 7, 1837 in Toronto, Ontario. He was the son of free black property owners William Ruffin Abbott and his wife Ellen (Toyer) Abbott who left Alabama after their store had been destroyed. They settled briefly in New York until racial tensions forced them to relocate to Toronto, Canada in 1835. William Abbott began buying property in and around Toronto and the family became wealthy.

Having access to the best education, because of his family’s wealth, Abbott attended private and public schools including William King’s School in North Buxton, Ontario, the Toronto Academy, and Oberlin College in the United States. In 1860 Abbott graduated from the Toronto School of Medicine at the age of twenty-three. After graduating he studied for four years under Alexander Thomas Augusta, a black U.S.-born doctor who was then working in Toronto. In 1861 Abbott received his license to practice medicine from the Medical Board of Upper Canada, becoming the first Canadian-born black doctor.

In February 1863, during the U.S. Civil War, Abbott applied for a commission as an assistant surgeon in the Union Army but was refused. He reapplied as a medical cadet in the newly-formed U.S. Colored Troops (USCT), all-black regiment and was hired as a civilian surgeon. Abbott served in several U.S. hospitals between June 1863 and August 1865 including Freedmen’s Hospital which eventually became part of Howard University. In 1865 he was assigned to administer a hospital in Arlington, Virginia. Dr. Abbott was one of several doctors in attendance when President Abraham Lincoln was fighting for his life after he was shot by John Wilkes Booth in April 1865. Mary Todd Lincoln, the widow of the President, later presented Abbott a plaid shawl worn by Lincoln at his first inauguration in appreciation for his attempt to save the President’s life.

Abbott resigned from the Arlington hospital in 1866 and returned to Toronto, Canada. In 1871 he opened his own medical practice and on August 9 of that year he married Mary Ann Casey of Toronto. The couple moved to Chatham, Ontario and eventually had three daughters and two sons.

Abbott became prominent in Chatham. He was appointed coroner for Kent County, Ontario in 1874 and by 1878 he was president of both the Chatham Medical Society and the Chatham Literary and Debating Society. As president of the Wilberforce Educational Institute between 1873 and 1880, he fought against racially segregated schools in Canada.

Anderson Abbott returned to the United States in 1894 where he accepted a position as surgeon-in-chief at Provident Hospital in Chicago, Illinois, the first black-owned hospital in the United States. He remained at Provident for only one year, returning again to Canada to resume his practice in Toronto.

Abbott wrote several editorials and articles for various magazines and newspapers including the Colored American Magazine (Boston, Massachusetts), the Anglo-American Magazine (London, UK), and the New York Age, then the leading African American newspaper in the U.S. Abbott’s publications include “Some recollections of Lincoln’s assassination,” which appeared in the Anglo-American Magazine in May 1901.

Dr. Anderson Ruffin Abbott died in Toronto, Canada on December 29, 1913
 

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Thanks for your response. I was confused on the USCT label -- so I am grateful you explained.

I need to learn more about the the Black people in the Union from the North -- their experiences and stories.

I am guessing since they served as servants and cooks - the Union was segregated as well? I am sure they went through a lot of ish with the White immigrants (Irish) who didn't even want to fight in the first place. See: New York City Draft Riots

I apologize if I came off as engaging in any of those tactics. It is never my intent -- unless stated or obvious when responding back at someone coming at me. And I don't to that or try to engage in that in The Root.

On Black Immigration:
The link you shared really opened up my eyes to Black immigration. I researched some names on FamilySearch.org -- and I saw some early as 1817. I am sure it's way earlier than that.

Black immigrants have a long and honorable history in the U.S. -- and it's never my intent to take away or diminish that.

But, when overstatement of their influence on our ancestors fight and freedom does rub me the wrong way. It's a way to honor them but be respectful to the long-standing history of our ancestors fighting and freeing emancipating themselves.

My area of interest has always been ADOS history and ADOS genealogy - so for ME the history I know the most about is gens de couleur libres and their history in Lousiana and Alabama.

Since they are apart of my ancestors experience -- and my DNA.

Even with gens de couleur libres -- it's many of them who have been extremely influential and supportive to ADOS and ADOS culture and communities.

But, as I have stated many times before - I love learning about Haitian history and people -- and have always made sure I have been uber respectful.

I will continue to research the topic and learn more.
Thanks. I hear you.I've been here long enough that people can see that I'm consistent. If I am corrected, I concede. If a person takes personal offense to what I write, I apologize, and if I'm speaking out of turn, I fall back.
https://www.thecoli.com/threads/nig...ting-underway-fukkery-underway.693789/page-13
during the course of that thread, I pointed out how the singer Keb Mo and the comedian Joe Torry resemble a former Nigerian president. What I thought was accurate and funny.
Was told how I had offended thousands of people, that I was comparing an esteemed leader to random Black men, and that I should just STFU.
I apologized and then asked them to look at the facial features of all 3 men.
They all got the joke and agreed with me/ dapped me.

They checked me, as they should have, and after seeing the intention wasn't sideways, they were receptive to my observation.
Other than that, I go full speed ahead in debates and discussions, and respect those who operate like that.
--

The good news is that I think I found some crates where some of my old books are.
Each Summer we make age appropriate reading lists for the youth in our extended families.I found some of the history books
54th.jpg
If this book is in the crates, then there's hope that I didn't loan all of my old books out.

===
The gems de couleur in New Orleans and the Gulf region are always a controversial topic here. Will address them later.
 

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@xoxodede

My views and comments about the mixed race free people and the enslaved Africans in the St. Domingue refugee population that entered Louisiana have been consistent.

From the size of both groups (as documented in census per and post arrival), to the parts of the territory and region the people settled into, to the gender composition of the free group, to their occupation/training, to their cultural impact to the region. All of these things been written about by scholars and historians from the region.

In fact, having read this history, one of my common comments in discussions about people from that region is to speculate about whether they descend from the St. Dominguans. When I do that, without fail, members come out of the woodwork & parachute out of the sky to remind/assure me that the SD impact (genetic) is overstated and that it was mostly AAs there.
When I mention documented examples of SD influence in that region, members come out of the woodwork and parachute down to remind/assure me that SD impact (cultural) is overstated and that it was mostly AAs there.

The topic of Gulf/Louisiana FPOC or Creole slaveowners has come up several times. I've spoken about the SD refugee WHITES, and FPOC who arrived in the country with enslaved Africans, and the ones who went on to own plantations here and purchase human beings.
With @ boy as the exception, at no time has anybody else come out of the woodwork or parachuted down to remind/assure us that the SD impact (FPOC slaveowners)was overstated, and that it was mostly AAs here.

Here is a snapshot breakdown of Saint Domingue refugees that arrived in New Orleans. The over 6300 Black and mixed race people would have had common African blood and ancestry, that I share as well. Definitely my people.

Numbers give a glimpse of the origin of gens de couleur from SD. As the white man to mixed race woman ratio is almost even, and the number of mixed race children is higher than the white.
Mixed race male St. Dominguan men were often well educated and trained. They posed an economic threat to the white Louisianans, so measures were taken to limit the amount of them allowed to enter. The(then) current ban on incoming/out of country slave trading also kept some of the enslaved Africans in limbo at the shipping docks. Native Louisianans took advantage of legal discrepancies to hinder the SD slaveowners from being able to transfer their chattel property(wealth) with them here.


The St. Dominguans mostly settled in New Orleans and in urban pockets, and adapted to the urban landscape and economy there. The white men settled into slaveholding and other professions, and the mixed race men settled into the trade/occupation that they were trained for, perhaps some became slaveholders as they acquired wealth.

The SD mixed race population bolstered the numbers of existing mixed race population in the territory , making up to a third of them for the "state" Fully mixed, socialized, and married each other. Continued the customs and practices from Saint Domingue and fit in directly with what their cousin group was doing here. As more white men had unions with mixed race women, the numbers of mixed race increased even more. Certainly some whites passed down land and ownership of human beings to their mixed race children.

----
Post isn't really for you, but to clarify to others for the sake of the discussion.
The Haitian born and descended enlistees did join with the larger group of AAs to help end slavery here.
Some of the Haitian born and descended refugees to arrive here did become part of the Black slaveholding class here.
 

xoxodede

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My views and comments about the mixed race free people and the enslaved Africans in the St. Domingue refugee population that entered Louisiana have been consistent.

From the size of both groups (as documented in census per and post arrival), to the parts of the territory and region the people settled into, to the gender composition of the free group, to their occupation/training, to their cultural impact to the region. All of these things been written about by scholars and historians from the region.

In fact, having read this history, one of my common comments in discussions about people from that region is to speculate about whether they descend from the St. Dominguans. When I do that, without fail, members come out of the woodwork & parachute out of the sky to remind/assure me that the SD impact (genetic) is overstated and that it was mostly AAs there.
When I mention documented examples of SD influence in that region, members come out of the woodwork and parachute down to remind/assure me that SD impact (cultural) is overstated and that it was mostly AAs there.

The topic of Gulf/Louisiana FPOC or Creole slaveowners has come up several times. I've spoken about the SD refugee WHITES, and FPOC who arrived in the country with enslaved Africans, and the ones who went on to own plantations here and purchase human beings.
With @ boy as the exception, at no time has anybody else come out of the woodwork or parachuted down to remind/assure us that the SD impact (FPOC slaveowners)was overstated, and that it was mostly AAs here.

Here is a snapshot breakdown of Saint Domingue refugees that arrived in New Orleans. The over 6300 Black and mixed race people would have had common African blood and ancestry, that I share as well. Definitely my people.

Numbers give a glimpse of the origin of gens de couleur from SD. As the white man to mixed race woman ratio is almost even, and the number of mixed race children is higher than the white.
Mixed race male St. Dominguan men were often well educated and trained. They posed an economic threat to the white Louisianans, so measures were taken to limit the amount of them allowed to enter. The(then) current ban on incoming/out of country slave trading also kept some of the enslaved Africans in limbo at the shipping docks. Native Louisianans took advantage of legal discrepancies to hinder the SD slaveowners from being able to transfer their chattel property(wealth) with them here.


The St. Dominguans mostly settled in New Orleans and in urban pockets, and adapted to the urban landscape and economy there. The white men settled into slaveholding and other professions, and the mixed race men settled into the trade/occupation that they were trained for, perhaps some became slaveholders as they acquired wealth.

The SD mixed race population bolstered the numbers of existing mixed race population in the territory , making up to a third of them for the "state" Fully mixed, socialized, and married each other. Continued the customs and practices from Saint Domingue and fit in directly with what their cousin group was doing here. As more white men had unions with mixed race women, the numbers of mixed race increased even more. Certainly some whites passed down land and ownership of human beings to their mixed race children.

----
Post isn't really for you, but to clarify to others for the sake of the discussion.
The Haitian born and descended enlistees did join with the larger group of AAs to help end slavery here.
Some of the Haitian born and descended refugees to arrive here did become part of the Black slaveholding class here.




Thanks for this!
 
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