Decline in rap quality is correlated to literacy. These rappers now don't read books,don't write, illiterate. No longer intense path b/w poetry to rap

[CrimsonTider]

The good writers do when they're writing their lyrics, and their writing process is what we're talking about in this thread.

You're a cult-level Drake stan though, so this conversation is likely confusing to you.

nikka no

 

[Shadow King]

Reading books certainly does not lead to a good rapper or lyricist

False

 

[Professor Emeritus]

It's not just rap it's a lot of art today. Think about how often you watch a film or TV show today and hear dialogue or argument that are ripped right from social media. We have writers who don't read, actors who don't watch films, rappers who don't listen to rap, singers who don't listen to pop/r&b, etc. A few months ago I saw an interview where Winona Ryder was depressed talking about how when she works with young actresses, none of them will watch older films (for inspiration, performance tips, etc) because the films are too long. Like...how can you be an actor but not watch movies? For writing we have an army of people who refuse to read old books because they are "too white" or too patriarchal or whatever. I'd imagine most of us read novels like 1984 or Lord Of The Flies in school.

I was insecure cause I realized
Ain't no room for the civilized
When the wild men rumble in the jungle
And that's why Simon and Piggy died
Ralph survives, but he lives changed
Nothin's the same, shyt'll drive a man out his brain
Drive a young man insane

 

[Gizmo_Duck]

That's something that's not talked about a lot. The older rappers didn't have hip hop to look back on as a reference point. They obviously were fans of it, but growing up, they loved other genres like R&B and funk. DMC was a huge rock fan and so was EPMD. Kate Bush is Big Boi's favorite artist. Biggie liked country music. Even though he's not a rapper, Montell Jordan's biggest hit sampled "Children's Story," but he said the first concert he ever went to was Katrina and the Waves. Rappers back then had more musicality, especially producers like Q-Tip, Premier, and Dre who listened to everything. Premier said that when he was putting together Step in the Arena, he was influenced by rock music, which is why there were multiple interludes on the album.

I have no idea what today's rappers listen to, but I doubt it's much outside of rap.

Its a big problem because the rap of the 80-00’s were basically sampling our musical greats of like 50 years.

It’s diluting the musicality. You cut it down once, and now you’re cutting it down into quarters. you got Berg out here sampling hit songs from the 90’s that sampled songs from the 70’s, that were covers of other songs lol

 

[xiceman191]

nikka no

 

[Cloutius Maximus]

I don't mind the rap singing and "using your voice as an instrument" if the music is good. Some of my favorite musical acts have random, indecipherable or simple lyrics. there is a place in hip-hop for Lupe and Playboi Carti

the bigger issue is the disconnect between modern rappers and black American music history. Most rappers and producers don't even care about rap before Lil Wayne's mixtape run, let alone non-trap influenced R&B, funk, jazz, blues, house, reggae, dancehall. You don't have to be on some Silk Sonic retro shyt but knowledge of your history can expand your palette and sense of what is possible. Meanwhile Cacs and Asians have no issue taking bits and pieces from our past and present music to boost their own. tommy richman is just one example

 

[TheWiseWon]

False

I would wager some solid rappers and lyricists do not read books. They may learn better by listening or merely observing. However, I recommend every person read as much as possible, lol.

Everything is not for everyone.

 

[Shadow King]

I would wager some solid rappers and lyricists do not read books. They may learn better by listening or merely observing. However, I recommend every person read as much as possible, lol.

Everything is not for everyone.

Learning ability/types is a general topic that goes beyond being able to write something creative or profound.

You can't observe vocabulary without reading. Listening doesn't tell you how to spell or use all words in correct context. The majority of writers/rappers were, are, or would be better serving by reading.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

Since @Piff Perkins brought up literary illusions in rap, some other gems:

Not strong Only aggressive
Not free We only licensed
Not compassionate, only polite
Now who the nicest?
Not good but well behaved
Chasing after death, so we can call ourselves brave?
Still living like mental slaves
Hiding like thieves in the night from life



Since you been gone, I been having withdrawals
You were such a habit to call
I ain't myself at all, had to tell myself, Naw
She better with some fella with a regular job
I didn't wanna get her involved
By dinner Mr. Benjamin was sitting in awe
Hopped into my car; drove far
Far's too close and I remember my memory's no sharp
Butter knife, what a life, anyway
I'm building y'all a clock, stop, what am I, Hemingway?



Can't you see, you're like a book of poetry
Maya Angelou, Nicki Giovanni,
turn one page and there's my mommy



They came to ask him for at least some new tracks,
but only got confronted by the beast with two backs.



These days, we need infinite rest from Infinite Jest
Legs so long, that’s an infinite dress



Is pious pious cause God loves pious?
Socrates asked whose bias do y'all seek?



And of course all of "Animal in Man"

Old man Sammy had a farm
Walked the land with the rifle
Most of the time shyt was calm
His whole life was maintained off the everyday labor
From the mules in the field to the cattle in the stable
This is how we kept food on this table (maxing)
You would have he was disabled by the way he be relaxing
Acting like Mr. Magnificent
But the animals was thinking something different
The sentiment was tension in the barnyard
Throughout the years they had been through mad drama
With the farmer, word is bond
And they all came to one conclusion
They argued there was no way they'd ever be free
If it was up to humans
Therefore the only course left was revolution
Which was understandable
And since the pigs promised to lead in the interest of all the animals
They planned a full attack under the leadership of Hannibal
The fattest pig in the pack
The next morning on the farm, everything was calm
Just before dawn but before long
The sun got so hot it made the farm seem electric
Now check, it this is when that shyt got hectic
Directed by Hannibal, the animals attacked
Old Sam was in a state of shock and fell up on his back
And dropped his rifle reaching in vain
Each and every creature from the field at his throat
Screaming, "Kill, feel the pain"

 

[TheWiseWon]

Learning ability/types is a general topic that goes beyond being able to write something creative or profound.

You can't observe vocabulary without reading. Listening doesn't tell you how to spell or use all words in correct context. The majority of writers/rappers were, are, or would be better serving by reading.

We are on the same side of this discussion. However, it is not out of the question for someone who listens to audiobooks, plays, or other forms of media to create a profound song. Speech-to-text acts as one example an artist could use to bypass writing altogether. There may be a blind rapper or lyricist out there making their mark without seeing the language they use to communicate.

 

[MicIsGod]

I don't mind the rap singing and "using your voice as an instrument" if the music is good. Some of my favorite musical acts have random, indecipherable or simple lyrics. there is a place in hip-hop for Lupe and Playboi Carti

the bigger issue is the disconnect between modern rappers and black American music history. Most rappers and producers don't even care about rap before Lil Wayne's mixtape run, let alone non-trap influenced R&B, funk, jazz, blues, house, reggae, dancehall. You don't have to be on some Silk Sonic retro shyt but knowledge of your history can expand your palette and sense of what is possible. Meanwhile Cacs and Asians have no issue taking bits and pieces from our past and present music to boost their own. tommy richman is just one example

The barrier of entry for rap just doesn’t require any prior knowledge of hip hop and it’s almost discouraged now. It’s depressing.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

Its a big problem because the rap of the 80-00’s were basically sampling our musical greats of like 50 years.

It’s diluting the musicality. You cut it down once, and now you’re cutting it down into quarters. you got Berg out here sampling hit songs from the 90’s that sampled songs from the 70’s, that were covers of other songs lol

I don't think that's really a problem. All music has always been derivative. Some good rock in the 1960s was ripped-off blues songs from the 1930s and 40s that ripped off folk music from even earlier.

The Animals made House of the Rising Sun a hit in 1964, after several other rock artists had already made less popular versions in the previous decade.

All of their versions were based in part on a blues version that Josh White had released back in 1942, which was also recorded by Lead Belly a few years later.

But Josh White claimed that he originally learned the song from a white hillbilly singer that he heard do it in the 1920s, and he just added additional lyrics.

There's a white Appalachian folk singer who recorded "Rising Sun Blues", the earliest recording of the song in 1933. He might have been the guy who Josh White learned it from. But he himself didn't write the song either, he said he learned it from his grandfather who might have been singing it since the 1800s.

Some music historians even believe that it is based on a folk melody that goes all the way back to the 16th or 17th centuries.


The idea of pure originality is bunk. All music derives from the music that came before it. The only question is whether you're adding and progressing and improving on what came before, or just lazy copying / regurgitation with no new contribution.

 

[Shadow King]

We are on the same side of this discussion. However, it is not out of the question for someone who listens to audiobooks, plays, or other forms of media to create a profound song. Speech-to-text acts as one example an artist could use to bypass writing altogether. There may be a blind rapper or lyricist out there making their mark without seeing the language they use to communicate.

Breh you're going too far left to not be wrong. You originally made an absolute statement.

 

[2 Up 2 Down]

Can't read, can't write, and some can barely formulate a coherent sentence

 

[Sk3ptical]

Majority of rap these days is made for angry antisocial crash dummies who are nothing but a statistic. You'll rarely find a smart successful person listening to music about shooting another man, selling drugs, etc. It's not an uplifting music, it's made to drag you down just like emo music.

Also there is a trend of young MAGA voters listening to rap heavily. It fits their persona: illiterate, ignorant, antisocial.

Basically it's not going away anytime soon because a lot of Americans are dumb. Live in a 1st world country but be dumber than someone from a 3rd world place.

Wasn't gangsta rap in the 90s