"Death to the Pessimistic State of Mind" - Nas Voice: NYK '23 Pre-Season Thread

[Peter Popoff]

Man I dunno about y'all but this us coming into the season:

 

[Derek Lee]

lol at believing in Randle

 

[Miles Davis]

lol at believing in Randle

Randle ol’ “I’m coming to pick you up ass”

 

[storyteller]

 

[DPresidential]

There is is.


World Wide Wes

Had a DIALOGUE.

LOL. I believe it.

 

[Peter Popoff]

Big facts. I mean shyt was common sense. shyt was mad retarded. Only a dumbass would trade all that shyt for D. Mitch.

 

[storyteller]

There is is.


World Wide Wes

Had a DIALOGUE.

LOL. I believe it.

Wes said "Ainge asked for my wife, my kids, my distant cousins, my grandkids"

Also, fun side note:


This FO has been mostly average IMO, but they're very good at extracting value out of the draft.

 

[Peter Popoff]

Quickley gonna surpass Maxey.

 

[Ironman]

Quickley gonna surpass Maxey.

Needs the minutes and usage

 

[Glorious]

Wes said "Ainge asked for my wife, my kids, my distant cousins, my grandkids"

Also, fun side note:


This FO has been mostly average IMO, but they're very good at extracting value out of the draft.

Fire Thibs now.

 

[ISO]

Cole Anthony looking extra shifty

 

[storyteller]

Some positivity from other team officials? They have us firmly as a play-in team with upside if Randle rebounds strong.

NBA exec praises Knicks’ Jalen Brunson signing, potential bright future

During his first meeting with Knicks scouts after Leon Rose took over as president in March 2020, he talked about his vision and some targets.

nypost.com

During his first meeting with Knicks scouts after Leon Rose took over as president in March 2020, he talked about his vision and some targets.

Jalen Brunson, then a backup Mavericks guard, was named that day — to the surprise of some Knicks talent evaluators, The Post has learned.

More than two years later, Rose secured a top target as their marquee offseason maneuver.

In exactly two weeks, the Knicks open training camp with media day and hold their first practice the next morning to commence the 50th anniversary season of their last title.

It will be Brunson or Bust.

Despite the naysayers, one Western Conference personnel director thinks the Knicks have done themselves proud this offseason to improve upon a 37-45 debacle.

The Knicks filled their desperate need for a point guard, added a more offensive/durable center off the bench in Isaiah Hartenstein and wisely passed on Donovan Mitchell, unwilling to be “raked over the coals’’ by Utah’s Danny Ainge.

The personnel director said the Knicks have a potent, deep and young bench, spearheaded by spry power forward Obi Toppin and veteran point guard Derrick Rose, who no longer has to be heavily depended upon.

“Not giving away the house for Donovan Mitchell has given them a lot of flexibility for the future,’’ the personnel director said. “I wouldn’t give them a 10 for their offseason but I think they now can make future moves and accumulated [draft] assets while adding an impact player at a position they didn’t have. And now Derrick doesn’t have to play starter’s minutes or even 70 games anymore. He’s best in a limited role.’’

Brunson’s $104 million contract — in the personnel director’s estimation — hasn’t been exalted enough. Yes, the Knicks sacrificed their lottery pick, the 11th pick, to clear cap space but …

“It’s hard to get players of that ability especially at that age (26),’’ he said. “You’re getting him as he enters his prime. What they’re paying him is not an overpay. The beauty is signing him as a free agent. They don’t have to give three first-round picks or multiple assets.

“It’s one of the better moves the Knicks have made in years,’’ the personnel man said.

To boot, Brunson’s fit should be smooth. His father, Rick, is on Tom Thibodeau’s coaching staff, Rose was his former agent — and Rick’s.

“That will help with his accountability,’’ the executive said. “The buy-in will be seamless. And the makeup of the kid is where New York is not an issue.’’

A key is whether Brunson transforms RJ Barrett and Julius Randle into more efficient scorers. Before Brunson, they were without playmakers.

“Randle will need to adjust,’’ the personnel man said. “Randle likes to handle at the top and facilitate but he can be a secondary ballhandler. He’s not excessive. I don’t think it will be difficult.

“Jalen is a team guy. He’s about the right things. Not a score-only guard. He’s a better playmaker than Derrick.’’

Rose, Immanuel Quickley, Quentin Grimes make for an intriguingly dynamic mix of reserve guards. Quickley was a 2020 first-round pick, Grimes a 2021 first-rounder.

Rose, if healthy, knows Thibodeau’s system better than any player. With Toppin showing flashes of explosiveness late in the season and new signee Hartenstein a capable two-way backup center, it’s as strong a backup group as there is in the East.

The talent evaluator said Toppin can come off the bench some nights and deliver 20 points.

“The key with Obi is always going to be understanding defensive concepts,’’ the personnel director said. “Being able to be reliable to Thibs. His ability to improve in that area and be a guy Thibs can trust will increase his playing time. They need him to do that because they need that offense.’’

Last season, center Mitchell Robinson’s backup was supposed to be Nerlens Noel but he limped his way to 25 games. The platoon of Taj Gibson and then-rookie Jericho Sims was subpar. It’s been addressed.

“[Hartenstein] can hit the open 3 but that’s not his strength,’’ the personnel director said. “But he can shoot. Anyone’s a better shooter than Noel and [Robinson]. His strength is midrange shooting where they can do a pick-and-pop instead of the one-dimensional rolling to the rim. He’s OK in a number of areas — rebounding, rim protection — but he’s just a more offensively oriented center than they’ve had and he’ll be available. Noel is never available.’’

What does it all amount to? The scouting chief has — on paper — eight teams more talented in Boston, Miami, Philly, Milwaukee, Brooklyn, Cleveland, Toronto and Atlanta.

But the Knicks could leap ahead further than ninth if Randle looks a little more like the player he was two seasons ago than the one he’s been throughout his career.

“Last year the East was the best it’s been since the 90s and this year it took another step,’’ the personnel man said. “They’re a play-in team — which is better than a year ago.’’

A lot of interesting tidbits all over this article. Some officials were surprised Brunson chose New York which is new to me. The official also co-signs the Knicks' outlook that Ainge wanted to commit a robbery. He's got the Knicks bench as up there with the strongest in the East and seems really high on Obi (something we don't hear enough of from rival GM's and evaluators). Then he's got his list of better teams in the East and it lines up with mine.

All that said...I kinda don't want to be a play-in team. In a typical year, I would. But not this season. I REALLY like this draft class, maybe that'll change as they start playing but I think I'll be more firmly in the "wish we had a high lottery pick" camp instead.

 

[Wargames]

Some positivity from other team officials? They have us firmly as a play-in team with upside if Randle rebounds strong.

NBA exec praises Knicks’ Jalen Brunson signing, potential bright future

During his first meeting with Knicks scouts after Leon Rose took over as president in March 2020, he talked about his vision and some targets.

nypost.com

A lot of interesting tidbits all over this article. Some officials were surprised Brunson chose New York which is new to me. The official also co-signs the Knicks' outlook that Ainge wanted to commit a robbery. He's got the Knicks bench as up there with the strongest in the East and seems really high on Obi (something we don't hear enough of from rival GM's and evaluators). Then he's got his list of better teams in the East and it lines up with mine.

All that said...I kinda don't want to be a play-in team. In a typical year, I would. But not this season. I REALLY like this draft class, maybe that'll change as they start playing but I think I'll be more firmly in the "wish we had a high lottery pick" camp instead.

Some of this is the stuff I say a lot. Especially about their bench being good. It’s stronger than some of the starting units this team has had. If Thibs plays guys around 30 minutes a night, he should be able to run a decent 10-11 man rotation. It would require that he coach “better” but let’s hope he can handle it.

I think they make an upgrade on Fournier and push to the playoffs. Fournier to the bench is just a waste. For that kind of money it should be someone who either can play SG next to Brunson or slot RJ down to SG and take his place at SF. He has another year on his contract too. They really don’t have the luxury of a 18 Mil a year bench player.

Keep an eye on Jerami Grant. Kyle Kuzma, and Harrison Barnes, 2 way wings with 3 pt range that would let the Knicks put RJ at SG. To a lesser degree OG Anunoby and Andrew Wiggins could be it too though I think the price to get them and the overall fit next to Brunson, RJ. and Randle isn’t as good as the prior three.

Also I am a big tank guy but I don’t think they can do it at this point. Reddish is a RFA. Then next year Obi and IQ, then Grimes. They need to see who these kids are before they have to make a decision to pay them. I got this team getting busy and making a push for 5th - 6th seed. The Knicks two years ago wasn’t the most talented, but talent is more a factor in the playoffs. Regular season, grinding out wins through hard work and defense is a lot easier. The raptors did it last year, we did it the year before. The two of them are going to both try and do it this year.

 

[storyteller]

Some of this is the stuff I say a lot. Especially about their bench being good. It’s stronger than some of the starting units this team has had. If Thibs plays guys around 30 minutes a night, he should be able to run a decent 10-11 man rotation. It would require that he coach “better” but let’s hope he can handle it.

I think they make an upgrade on Fournier and push to the playoffs. Fournier to the bench is just a waste. For that kind of money it should be someone who either can play SG next to Brunson or slot RJ down to SG and take his place at SF. He has another year on his contract too. They really don’t have the luxury of a 18 Mil a year bench player.

Keep an eye on Jerami Grant. Kyle Kuzma, and Harrison Barnes, 2 way wings with 3 pt range that would let the Knicks put RJ at SG. To a lesser degree OG Anunoby and Andrew Wiggins could be it too though I think the price to get them and the overall fit next to Brunson, RJ. and Randle isn’t as good as the prior three.

Also I am a big tank guy but I don’t think they can do it at this point. Reddish is a RFA. Then next year Obi and IQ, then Grimes. They need to see who these kids are before they have to make a decision to pay them. I got this team getting busy and making a push for 5th - 6th seed. The Knicks two years ago wasn’t the most talented, but talent is more a factor in the playoffs. Regular season, grinding out wins through hard work and defense is a lot easier. The raptors did it last year, we did it the year before. The two of them are going to both try and do it this year.

The problem with upgrading from Fournier too get to the playoffs is that it goes against seeing what we have with the current youth. Adding any of Grant, Kuzma, Barnes, OG, or Wiggins would cement a bench role for their positiion. So that's less minutes for the wings and maybe Obi if it's Kuzma or Grant.

That's basically my worst fear. We move an asset and Fournier to bring in a player that bumps the Knicks from a 7-10 lock to a 5-8 competitor. It's nice and all, but I don't think the long term value is close to the short term payoff. It might secure Thibs and Leon an extra season or two, but it only muddies the picture.

I agree that it could be hard to tank. But it's the deepest Eastern Conference in forever right now, so my theory is that they should dump at least one of but preferably two of Randle, Fournier Rose. The openings would let them see what they've got by giving extended minutes to IQ, Grimes, and Obi. And the potential dropoff would come from decreased depth rather than anything that actually impacts the main young prospects. This scenario even opens up time for guys like McBride or Sims to get more looks.

That wouldn't bottom out the team. But in a stacked East, it could line them up for a top-ten pick and this draft really has potential to be 10 deep with guys we really want as opposed to typical drafts where you get hype for 5 pieces at most but then it's more crap shoot than target practice. The bonus is that if the young Knicks push the team to a play-in or playoff spot anyway, then they've bumped their values and proven their worth.

I'm not big on tanking typically, because you have to be SO bad to get a guaranteed talent in most drafts. But I don't mind moving vets and letting chips fall where they may in this case. I think it might reduce the win total, but not by much and the long term value will be a lot higher.

 

[Wargames]

The problem with upgrading from Fournier too get to the playoffs is that it goes against seeing what we have with the current youth. Adding any of Grant, Kuzma, Barnes, OG, or Wiggins would cement a bench role for their positiion. So that's less minutes for the wings and maybe Obi if it's Kuzma or Grant.

That's basically my worst fear. We move an asset and Fournier to bring in a player that bumps the Knicks from a 7-10 lock to a 5-8 competitor. It's nice and all, but I don't think the long term value is close to the short term payoff. It might secure Thibs and Leon an extra season or two, but it only muddies the picture.

I agree that it could be hard to tank. But it's the deepest Eastern Conference in forever right now, so my theory is that they should dump at least one of but preferably two of Randle, Fournier Rose. The openings would let them see what they've got by giving extended minutes to IQ, Grimes, and Obi. And the potential dropoff would come from decreased depth rather than anything that actually impacts the main young prospects. This scenario even opens up time for guys like McBride or Sims to get more looks.

That wouldn't bottom out the team. But in a stacked East, it could line them up for a top-ten pick and this draft really has potential to be 10 deep with guys we really want as opposed to typical drafts where you get hype for 5 pieces at most but then it's more crap shoot than target practice. The bonus is that if the young Knicks push the team to a play-in or playoff spot anyway, then they've bumped their values and proven their worth.

I'm not big on tanking typically, because you have to be SO bad to get a guaranteed talent in most drafts. But I don't mind moving vets and letting chips fall where they may in this case. I think it might reduce the win total, but not by much and the long term value will be a lot higher.

Trust that I see your vision because I am usually advocating for Tanking. However, your plan is ignoring Dolan. He wants to raise ticket prices.

This team with or without Fournier is made to make a playoff run. The amount of effort to make them a bad team seems unlikely. So if Fournier, and two picks can get them securely in the 5-7 range I fully expect them to do it.

As for the youth developing, there is a simple solution. Thibs plays the starters 30 minutes max so he can give the bench about 20 minutes a game. He could also hold them all accountable and play bench guys when the starters are having a bad night, maybe even…. Load manage.

Having 10-11 NBA ready guys should be this teams strength that can be used to mitigate the lack of a superstar in the regular season. It won’t hold up in the playoffs, but the kids (RJ, Grimes, IQ, Obi, Mitch, and Reddish) are young enough getting some playoff experience might pay dividends later.