"Death to the Pessimistic State of Mind" - Nas Voice: NYK '23 Pre-Season Thread

[Wargames]

@storyteller Sorry bro, but I can't let them off the hook with that it takes two shyt any more.

There are teams that are coupling picks to move up and there are teams coupling picks to move down; which one have we been?

There are teams coupling draft picks to make moves to improve the team, and then there's us coupling a draft pick to get a guy the collective clearly didn't agree upon in Reddish, highlighting a clear lack of synergy between the 5 guys in the room with Leon and the head coach.

We were/have been top 3 in total draft picks over like 5 years and what do we really have to show for it? Hope in Obi, IQ and Grimes? Guys that would have been locked to the bench behind vets if not for injuries and COVID because we hired a coach that is the antithesis of youth development? We're not using the capital we have well and our answer is let's hope teams come down off their "ridiculous" asks? Nah.

We're hoping some other teams will bail us out and give us a Canal street prices in Fifth Ave storefronts. It's nonsense. Why shouldn't a team that's 7 spots ahead of us and in position to draft someone we want desperately beat us in the head with their ask? We gotta pay the premium. Premium for poor decisions, for poor use of assets, premium for signing vets and creating unnecessary redundancies that our youth should be getting their lumps in just to try to win as many games as possible in a lost season, just to be on the back end of a mid draft class so we can say "Well, we tried." And then we're in the lotto with a high pick, we can't move up, because "the cost is too high", and we can't possibly move all these great assets we're storing for a rainy day, so what can they say again? "Well, we tried."

We gotta stop giving these dudes outs for poor decisions. All they've done is save Dolan money with this selling back, draft and stash, kick the can down the road shyt. Always plan B and C instead of A. And in that they've gotten manageable contracts and as such, have manageable talent, that isn't getting us to the playoffs or the top 3 of a class. That's not on any other front office but our own.

Breh saving Dolan money and creating a team that can get into the playoffs so he can charge more for ticket prices is basically their job.

Dolan ain’t rolling in the dough compared to other owners like he use to. I actually think he is at least the bottom half. The Knicks are a business not a project of love, and Dolan is out for that tourist paper more than anything.

 

[Peter Popoff]

C Robinson
F Toppin
F Barrett
G Grimes
G Murray

This is a team worth watching that can lock up and get out in transition.

All we’ll need is Toppin and Barrett to be able to knock down catch and shoot shots at a good clip and my vision for Grimes is J.J. Redikk Jr. with defense.

D-Rose and Quick giving us bench spark.

I feel like you can swap out Grimes for IQ and make him the back up for RJ for more efficient shooting. Obi and Mitch can get boards and there's less spacing issues.

 

[Daniel.]

Breh saving Dolan money and creating a team that can get into the playoffs so he can charge more for ticket prices is basically their job.

Dolan ain’t rolling in the dough compared to other owners like he use to. I actually think he is at least the bottom half. The Knicks are a business not a project of love, and Dolan is out for that tourist paper more than anything.

This is a depressing as hell reality I'm struggling with.

 

[Wargames]

This is a depressing as hell reality I'm struggling with.

Once you come to terms with it the last decade plus of the team makes sense. Pre-Melo Dolan had more paper than most so player would see the Knicks as a lic to retire on. Now in the modern era, Knicks aren’t even that. They are a family business like the Lakers but without the prestige. Leon has done a good job maintaining the balance books and keeping Dolan’s name out the media’s mouth. He ain’t going no where, no time soon.

 

[storyteller]

@storyteller Sorry bro, but I can't let them off the hook with that it takes two shyt any more.

There are teams that are coupling picks to move up and there are teams coupling picks to move down; which one have we been?

There are teams coupling draft picks to make moves to improve the team, and then there's us coupling a draft pick to get a guy the collective clearly didn't agree upon in Reddish, highlighting a clear lack of synergy between the 5 guys in the room with Leon and the head coach.

We were/have been top 3 in total draft picks over like 5 years and what do we really have to show for it? Hope in Obi, IQ and Grimes? Guys that would have been locked to the bench behind vets if not for injuries and COVID because we hired a coach that is the antithesis of youth development? We're not using the capital we have well and our answer is let's hope teams come down off their "ridiculous" asks? Nah.

We're hoping some other teams will bail us out and give us a Canal street prices in Fifth Ave storefronts. It's nonsense. Why shouldn't a team that's 7 spots ahead of us and in position to draft someone we want desperately beat us in the head with their ask? We gotta pay the premium. Premium for poor decisions, for poor use of assets, premium for signing vets and creating unnecessary redundancies that our youth should be getting their lumps in just to try to win as many games as possible in a lost season, just to be on the back end of a mid draft class so we can say "Well, we tried." And then we're in the lotto with a high pick, we can't move up, because "the cost is too high", and we can't possibly move all these great assets we're storing for a rainy day, so what can they say again? "Well, we tried."

We gotta stop giving these dudes outs for poor decisions. All they've done is save Dolan money with this selling back, draft and stash, kick the can down the road shyt. Always plan B and C instead of A. And in that they've gotten manageable contracts and as such, have manageable talent, that isn't getting us to the playoffs or the top 3 of a class. That's not on any other front office but our own.

Nah, and I can't stress this enough, 99% of the rumors you've read about other teams are just as big bullshyt as the ones you've been reading about the Knicks. I'll complain about the Knicks not doing enough to move up, when I see another team ACTUALLY move up for a price that seems fair.

 

[Derek Lee]

Reddish is in trade rumors right after the Knicks traded for him. Stupid ass team

 

[Daniel.]

Nah, and I can't stress this enough, 99% of the rumors you've read about other teams are just as big bullshyt as the ones you've been reading about the Knicks. I'll complain about the Knicks not doing enough to move up, when I see another team ACTUALLY move up for a price that seems fair.

To that end, I don't think I have much of a gauge for what's considered fair then.

Last year the rumor was Duarte. This year it's Ivey. If the price is my current years pick, let's say the Mavericks pick and 3 years worth of picks in the future, that's not a conversation I'm walking away from if it's "my guy". There will be pick swaps and protections involved I would imagine and if it's not, that's when we walk away, because that's when it gets outrageous. If those are the kinds of asks they're getting, then I get it; if not, I don't see why they're not moving forward when ever year there is no shortage of late picks you can buy or trade for with the right asset - and if your scouting is that focused on finding diamonds in the rough, that's when you put em to work.

If it's not your guy and you're comfortable with taking option B or C, then staying put makes sense. But eventually, you gotta do more than settling on talent if you're trying to go somewhere.

But to the point of just balancing the books, if that's the priority, maybe that going somewhere isn't necessarily a championship, which is something I'll have to accept when considering how I look at their moves.

 

[seemorecizzy]

@storyteller Sorry bro, but I can't let them off the hook with that it takes two shyt any more.

There are teams that are coupling picks to move up and there are teams coupling picks to move down; which one have we been?

There are teams coupling draft picks to make moves to improve the team, and then there's us coupling a draft pick to get a guy the collective clearly didn't agree upon in Reddish, highlighting a clear lack of synergy between the 5 guys in the room with Leon and the head coach.

We were/have been top 3 in total draft picks over like 5 years and what do we really have to show for it? Hope in Obi, IQ and Grimes? Guys that would have been locked to the bench behind vets if not for injuries and COVID because we hired a coach that is the antithesis of youth development? We're not using the capital we have well and our answer is let's hope teams come down off their "ridiculous" asks? Nah.

We're hoping some other teams will bail us out and give us a Canal street prices in Fifth Ave storefronts. It's nonsense. Why shouldn't a team that's 7 spots ahead of us and in position to draft someone we want desperately beat us in the head with their ask? We gotta pay the premium. Premium for poor decisions, for poor use of assets, premium for signing vets and creating unnecessary redundancies that our youth should be getting their lumps in just to try to win as many games as possible in a lost season, just to be on the back end of a mid draft class so we can say "Well, we tried." And then we're in the lotto with a high pick, we can't move up, because "the cost is too high", and we can't possibly move all these great assets we're storing for a rainy day, so what can they say again? "Well, we tried."

We gotta stop giving these dudes outs for poor decisions. All they've done is save Dolan money with this selling back, draft and stash, kick the can down the road shyt. Always plan B and C instead of A. And in that they've gotten manageable contracts and as such, have manageable talent, that isn't getting us to the playoffs or the top 3 of a class. That's not on any other front office but our own.

thanks for tellin the truth and not giving these lazy bums a pass

 

[Derek Lee]

 

[storyteller]

To that end, I don't think I have much of a gauge for what's considered fair then.

Last year the rumor was Duarte. This year it's Ivey. If the price is my current years pick, let's say the Mavericks pick and 3 years worth of picks in the future, that's not a conversation I'm walking away from if it's "my guy". There will be pick swaps and protections involved I would imagine and if it's not, that's when we walk away, because that's when it gets outrageous. If those are the kinds of asks they're getting, then I get it; if not, I don't see why they're not moving forward when ever year there is no shortage of late picks you can buy or trade for with the right asset - and if your scouting is that focused on finding diamonds in the rough, that's when you put em to work.

If it's not your guy and you're comfortable with taking option B or C, then staying put makes sense. But eventually, you gotta do more than settling on talent if you're trying to go somewhere.

But to the point of just balancing the books, if that's the priority, maybe that going somewhere isn't necessarily a championship, which is something I'll have to accept when considering how I look at their moves.

I think Duarte's situation is a good example of what I mean by "it takes two." The Knicks were part of a list of teams that tried to trade up for him, but Pacers didn't really want to trade that pick. They asked for a king's ransom, heard out the offers, and then decided to take the kid because that's what they wanted all along. They were fishing for a fool and nobody bit. It's a win-win for them.

My Ivey trade is two of our own picks, the Mavs pick, Grimes, and Reddish...I think that's more than a lot of fans would be willing to give (less than others would be as well). But I also feel like the Kings are way less keen to move down than anyone realizes. They didn't even work players out. They're flying blind once Jeremy Sochan is off the board.

Now, when you get into the way they've set up barriers to playing time for their recent picks and stressed bottom-line dollar amounts over getting their main targets...I 100% agree fam. That's the front office getting in its own way. They can't even blame the cap for much longer. EVERYBODY is gonna get a boost in cap space once the new tv deal goes through. They should be working to get all their long term core locked in before that cap increase causes everyone's salary to blow up to another level.

It's just impossible to piece together all the rumors because so much BS is floating. Most of the time the stuff that winds up being true is either the most basic garbage or things that are completely unexpected (like Sabonis for Haliburton when all the rumors were about Turner and Fox being on the block). I think the teams to really watch are Detroit and Portland, but that's based strictly on their situations and the trade they just pulled. Portland is going win-now with a massive TPE and Detroit is sitting on a heap of cap space that no one else is close to. Everyone's gonna be looking for cap relief, so that's where I think the real movement is gonna happen.

If you can trade up to 7 and pick Shaedon Sharpe without losing IQ, RJ, Grimes, Obi or multiple picks...I'd rather do that then trade all of our extra assets for Ivey. Sharpe not having college tape has people acting crazy. You don't get athletes that good with jumpers in every draft, let alone past the 5th pick. Edit: it even makes sense from a Blazers draft needs standpoint. Even if they re-sign Nurkic, drafting Jalen Duren as insurance would be a great idea. They can get him or Mark Williams at 11.

 

[storyteller]

Here's a funny rumor. Knicks offering Fournier into a Boston exception that was created when the Knicks signed Fournier.

 

[RickyGQ]

To that end, I don't think I have much of a gauge for what's considered fair then.

Last year the rumor was Duarte. This year it's Ivey. If the price is my current years pick, let's say the Mavericks pick and 3 years worth of picks in the future, that's not a conversation I'm walking away from if it's "my guy". There will be pick swaps and protections involved I would imagine and if it's not, that's when we walk away, because that's when it gets outrageous. If those are the kinds of asks they're getting, then I get it; if not, I don't see why they're not moving forward when ever year there is no shortage of late picks you can buy or trade for with the right asset - and if your scouting is that focused on finding diamonds in the rough, that's when you put em to work.

If it's not your guy and you're comfortable with taking option B or C, then staying put makes sense. But eventually, you gotta do more than settling on talent if you're trying to go somewhere.

But to the point of just balancing the books, if that's the priority, maybe that going somewhere isn't necessarily a championship, which is something I'll have to accept when considering how I look at their moves.

Case in point, the lakers just bought the 35th pick in the draft.

 

[Wargames]

I still think Gordon Hayward for pick #15 makes the most sense based on how this FO moves.

The front office wanted him 2 years ago and almost got him. Potentially he is the 1A option they want . Ideally it would be them sending Fournier back, but based on the rumors Burks, Noel, and Kemba makes the most sense.

 

[storyteller]

Case in point, the lakers just bought the 35th pick in the draft.

But the key is to remember that not every team drafts well with those late picks. We BODIED our second-round picks last year. We made 4 picks at 25 or later and hit on 'em all. The Euroleague rising star, Sims and Grimes, with McBride unproven but looking really promising.

The Knicks have draft Obi Toppin, Immanuel Quickley, Quentin Grimes, Rokas Jokubaitis, Duece McBride, and Jericho Sims in the Leon Rose era.

I'm not sure why there's a fan meltdown over what they do with draft picks. It's the most obvious strong point of this front office. I'm more concerned with the fact that they're trying to trade every vet they signed from last season. They're a lot worse at that part of the offseason than they are at handling the draft. They've been damn near brilliant in the past two drafts.

 

[Glorious]

Good. Poor man Chris Childs.