Daniel Craig could have been a top 3 james bond

Jello Biafra

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And the movies you named save for the spy who loved me have tons more flaws. Especially the man with the golden gun and moonraker. But if you feel like those are good flicks then we can't even have this conversation because we're coming from two different places breh. I can watch them for fukkery but I in no way think they're anything but that: fukkery. And I like live and let die but it's not better than Skyfall. The spy who loved me is dope and I don't want to even remotely shyt on it
See I can admit that there were some flaws in The Spy Who Loved me too just as there are in Live and Let Die.
And MWTGG and Moonraker were fun movies and not even for fukkery's sake.
As for Skyfall, that movie gets overhyped like crazy for some reason and its flaws were glaring in relation to the unearned praise it gets. That whole final act was a complete mess.
 

MartyMcFly

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See I can admit that there were some flaws in The Spy Who Loved me too just as there are in Live and Let Die.
And MWTGG and Moonraker were fun movies and not even for fukkery's sake.
As for Skyfall, that movie gets overhyped like crazy for some reason and its flaws were glaring in relation to the unearned praise it gets. That whole final act was a complete mess.

Okay let's discuss the third act then: what didn't you mess with?

And I think man with the golden gun is boring as fukk and don't even get me started on moonraker. Again man I just do not like the tone of his movies for the most part so they're going to miss me. Even as a kid I was never into that tone for Bond. I preferred Connery and dalton to Moore and still do
 

Jello Biafra

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Okay let's discuss the third act then: what didn't you mess with?

And I think man with the golden gun is boring as fukk and don't even get me started on moonraker. Again man I just do not like the tone of his movies for the most part so they're going to miss me. Even as a kid I was never into that tone for Bond. I preferred Connery and dalton to Moore and still do
See you are coming at it from hating the Moore version of Bond which means you are going to be inclined to hate all of his movies to differing degrees (based solely on how much like Connery's Bond he was) and not really give them a fair shot.
As someone who has liked all of the actors who played Bond I don't enter into any of the films with any preset bias.
I like Craig as Bond; I loved Casino Royale; thought Quanum of Solace was ass and was happy that he rebounded with Skyfall which I found to be a good movie.
But to just outright dismiss Moore's flicks and place Skyfall on some pedestal high above all of those films is something I cannot do.
And the third act of Skyfall turned into Home Alone with the bad guys falling into one homemade booby trap after another. And just chucking Albert Finney into a 2.5 hour movie at the 2 hour mark was jarring.
 

MartyMcFly

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See you are coming at it from hating the Moore version of Bond which means you are going to be inclined to hate all of his movies to differing degrees (based solely on how much like Connery's Bond he was) and not really give them a fair shot.
As someone who has liked all of the actors who played Bond I don't enter into any of the films with any preset bias.
I like Craig as Bond; I loved Casino Royale; thought Quanum of Solace was ass and was happy that he rebounded with Skyfall which I found to be a good movie.
But to just outright dismiss Moore's flicks and place Skyfall on some pedestal high above all of those films is something I cannot do.
And the third act of Skyfall turned into Home Alone with the bad guys falling into one homemade booby trap after another. And just chucking Albert Finney into a 2.5 hour movie at the 2 hour mark was jarring.

I gave him a fair shot breh. I own all of the movies, and I've watched them several times, over and over and over but he doesn't do it for me. And I just don't like that tone. I don't like when Bond becomes a parody of itself because there's something so awesome about the character as is, he doesn't need to be a joke. Which is why I love the spy who loved me because it balanced out his humor and tendency to be campy with a seriousness and a straightforward story that didn't allow for a lot of silliness. And I love for your eyes only because it's a straight spy story and he plays Bond perfectly in that movie. And I even love live and let die but I feel like from a film making standpoint, skyfall is above the ones of his I DO love and its above the ones I don't love. There's stuff like J.W. Pepper that I can't ignore, along with the silly shyt in moonraker, and the fact that he was clearly too old to be doing what he was doing in a view to a kill, another movie that just lacked and it was clear it was time for him to hang it up. But that campiness and that tone are the same reasons I don't like Diamonds are Forever. Once the character starts poking fun at himself and, to quote Timothy Dalton, becomes a caricature, it loses all depth and texture and truth. Does that mean I don't have fun with those movies? Of course not. Anytime they're on, I will watch them, but I also realize that there's a difference between enjoying something for the fun of it and that thing also being a good movie. Street Fighter is fun as hell but it's not a good movie by any means.

I appreciate Skyfall more than those movies because of how it was a nice balance of humor with seriousness while also exploring the psyche of this character I love, putting a lot of things back in place in a very organic way and of course the relevancy to headline news. And it was the first really really good Bond villain in a long time, although I do love Le Chiffre. I don't mind the 3rd act stuff you mentioned because one, Home Alone wasn't the first movie to have booby traps and two it was a nice inversion of the typical 3rd act where Bond goes to the villain's lair to get them. And the emotional resonance of him being reborn in a place where he became who he became along with losing his surrogate mother in the place where his parents are, it all worked for me and don't see it as problems. Especially if we want to talk about the Roger Moore flicks which all, save for two movies, have third act problems out the ass.
 

Roman Brady

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No love for Dalton in here :camby:
you going to forget my post? :mjpls: he gave birth to Daniel Craig's shyt and he was able to do it while having chemistry with his leading lady. He just needed better movies and for em to have been made in a different decade or 2
 

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you going to forget my post? :mjpls: he gave birth to Daniel Craig's shyt and he was able to do it while having chemistry with his leading lady. He just needed better movies and for em to have been made in a different decade or 2

You see it :win:
 

MartyMcFly

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considering your views on Moore is that really saying much? I am almost apprehensive to ask if you favour Brosnan (who had the worst catalogue) over Moore too

It's saying a lot lol. I'd take Moore's movies over Brosnan's. He's got one really good movie and the rest are forgettable. I'm not sure if Goldeneye ever reaches the heights of the spy who loved me but I know none of his other three do. He needed better movies and also, as he has said recently, he never got to really make the role his own. He was so stuck in trying to be both Roger and Sean that he ended up not really doing what he wanted to do. I think the closest he got to it was The World is Not Enough when he added some emotional depth to Bond with the whole thing with Elektra King and how he reacted to being betrayed by this woman that he did care about and then ultimately having to take her life. But his movies failed him.
 

Jello Biafra

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I gave him a fair shot breh. I own all of the movies, and I've watched them several times, over and over and over but he doesn't do it for me. And I just don't like that tone. I don't like when Bond becomes a parody of itself because there's something so awesome about the character as is, he doesn't need to be a joke. Which is why I love the spy who loved me because it balanced out his humor and tendency to be campy with a seriousness and a straightforward story that didn't allow for a lot of silliness. And I love for your eyes only because it's a straight spy story and he plays Bond perfectly in that movie. And I even love live and let die but I feel like from a film making standpoint, skyfall is above the ones of his I DO love and its above the ones I don't love. There's stuff like J.W. Pepper that I can't ignore, along with the silly shyt in moonraker, and the fact that he was clearly too old to be doing what he was doing in a view to a kill, another movie that just lacked and it was clear it was time for him to hang it up. But that campiness and that tone are the same reasons I don't like Diamonds are Forever. Once the character starts poking fun at himself and, to quote Timothy Dalton, becomes a caricature, it loses all depth and texture and truth. Does that mean I don't have fun with those movies? Of course not. Anytime they're on, I will watch them, but I also realize that there's a difference between enjoying something for the fun of it and that thing also being a good movie. Street Fighter is fun as hell but it's not a good movie by any means.

I appreciate Skyfall more than those movies because of how it was a nice balance of humor with seriousness while also exploring the psyche of this character I love, putting a lot of things back in place in a very organic way and of course the relevancy to headline news. And it was the first really really good Bond villain in a long time, although I do love Le Chiffre. I don't mind the 3rd act stuff you mentioned because one, Home Alone wasn't the first movie to have booby traps and two it was a nice inversion of the typical 3rd act where Bond goes to the villain's lair to get them. And the emotional resonance of him being reborn in a place where he became who he became along with losing his surrogate mother in the place where his parents are, it all worked for me and don't see it as problems. Especially if we want to talk about the Roger Moore flicks which all, save for two movies, have third act problems out the ass.
See I can appreciate Moore's Bond because he was a reflection of the times. The 70s were perfect for a Bond with a bit of humor and camp to his adventures.
Plus I have a soft spot for the wacky gadgets and extra super-villainy bad guys. I have never been all that fond of Bond facing off against run of the mill businessman or grumpy ex-spies. I want my Bond villains encasing bytches in gold and having henchman with metal teeth or who throw killer boomerang bowler hats. Jason Bourne movies already exist so I don't need James Bond to be Jason Bourne. Going away from the Bourne model as much as it did is part of why I like Skyfall. And I do like Skyfall...I just wouldn't hold it up as some benchmark in the Bondian oeuvre against which some other Bond films pale in comparison.
 

MartyMcFly

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See I can appreciate Moore's Bond because he was a reflection of the times. The 70s were perfect for a Bond with a bit of humor and camp to his adventures.
Plus I have a soft spot for the wacky gadgets and extra super-villainy bad guys. I have never been all that fond of Bond facing off against run of the mill businessman or grumpy ex-spies. I want my Bond villains encasing bytches in gold and having henchman with metal teeth or who throw killer boomerang bowler hats. Jason Bourne movies already exist so I don't need James Bond to be Jason Bourne. Going away from the Bourne model as much as it did is part of why I like Skyfall. And I do like Skyfall...I just wouldn't hold it up as some benchmark in the Bondian oeuvre against which some other Bond films pale in comparison.

Casino Royale and From Russia With Love are to me the best that Bond can be and what a Bond movie is to me.

And I understand the reflection of the times because every Bond should be that and I appreciate him for that. Those movies, even though they don't all work for me and according to interviews, dont all work for the producers and actors, were what they needed to be for the time they were in. But it's also like you said what you're drawn to vs what I'm drawn to. I don't mind an oddjob here and there but I don't want a constant run of that. I prefer the espionage stuff where even if it's a guy like Silva who is theatrical, it's still wrapped in something tangible of the espionage world. I had this idea a while ago that this is the one franchise that while not critic proof, is probably fan proof in the sense that everyone will have their favorites and what they prefer so while I can make compelling arguments for not liking Moonraker, you can make compelling arguments for liking it and truthfully neither one of us are wrong because the series is so malleable and has something for everyone. I like my harder edged stuff with a little bit of humor in there and a deeper Bond, so I got the stuff that speaks to me like the two movies I mentioned, which I think are the best in the series
 
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