murksiderock
Superstar
I'm sure there are a number of qualifiers we can do for both guys. Cats would not love Barkley like that in this era...
Damn Barkley really was a top 5 player back in the day
- Thread starter steph_harden
- Start date
I'm sure there are a number of qualifiers we can do for both guys. Cats would not love Barkley like that in this era...
He still got his team to a chip. Harden never got close. And no shame to losing to air goat
And harden has played with much better talent throughout his career.
Is this a joke thread? Of course he was..lol
steph_harden
Superstar
All those dudes were washed when Barkley played with them. Those Suns squads had some breaking L’s tho
Erratic415
Superstar
There was a 3 year period where Barkley’s teams had a legit chance at a title, the first 3 years in Phoenix.
The 76ers had a good team when Barkley entered the league. Doc was old but still good. Moses still a great player. But they were not getting past those Celtics teams.
The Suns were a legit contender from 92/93 through 94/95. They lost the first year to the Bulls, then blew a 2-0 lead in 94’ to Houston. Then blew a 3-1 lead, with HCA, in 95’ to Houston.
You can add the 97’ Rockets if you want. Barkley wasn’t consistently on serious contending teams, most of those 76ers teams weren’t all that good. They overachieved that one year when Barkley was 2nd in MVP voting. However, the Suns did definitely choke those 2 years against Houston.
The 76ers had a good team when Barkley entered the league. Doc was old but still good. Moses still a great player. But they were not getting past those Celtics teams.
The Suns were a legit contender from 92/93 through 94/95. They lost the first year to the Bulls, then blew a 2-0 lead in 94’ to Houston. Then blew a 3-1 lead, with HCA, in 95’ to Houston.
You can add the 97’ Rockets if you want. Barkley wasn’t consistently on serious contending teams, most of those 76ers teams weren’t all that good. They overachieved that one year when Barkley was 2nd in MVP voting. However, the Suns did definitely choke those 2 years against Houston.
AJtheOne
Nets/Giants/Yankees
I'm hearing a lot about Chuck's offense but nothing about defense
thats very important for a Pf and C.
thats very important for a Pf and C.
murksiderock
Superstar
This is funny...
In Barkley's first three seasons, Doc made three All-Star teams, Moses and Cheeks made two apiece. Let's also keep in mind that Doc and Moses are still considered Top 20 players today, and at the time of their retirements were borderline Top 10 All-Time players...
So Harden got to play with Durant and Westbrook for three seasons, Barkley got to play with Erving for three seasons and Moses for two. You're gonna have a hard time convincing people KD and Brodie are more talented than Moses and The Doctor...
It's funny how Chuck and Beard's careers parallel each other a bit...
The Sixers won 58 and 54 games his first two seasons when Moses and Doc were carrying the weight, went to the ECF in '85 and came a game within the ECF in '86. Then a funny thing happened, when Moses was traded away and Doc fell off and Chuck had to start carrying the load, the competitiveness of the team dropped. Philly made a horrible deal sending Moses away and probably could've done a better job building around Chuck, but it has to say something about his inability to elevate and inspire his teammates...
Chuck's last 5 years in Philly he still got one All-Star appearance apiece from Cheeks and Hersey Hawkins. One 50 win season, two missed postseasons, never made it beyond the 2nd Rd...
Thru Year 11 ('95), which is currently where Harden is at, Chuck also added Majerle (2) and Johnson (1) as All-Star teammates he played with. Six All-Star teammates, two of whom being All-Timers. Harden thru 11 years has played with the following All-Stars: KD (3), Westbrook (3), Dwight (1). Two of whom are Top 50...
I just wanna make sure we're keeping the energy consistent with the old heads. Houston has probably done a better job building around Harden than Philly did for Chuck, but let's also remember Harden has never missed the playoffs as a #1 while playing in The West (actually never missed the playoffs period), and has twice taken Houston to the WCF, only losing to an All-Time team...
Harden losing to the Bulls of his era (Warrior) isn't any different than Barkley losing to the Warriors of his (Bulls). As recently highlighted, Barkley has a couple choke jobs on his resume, several times missed the playoffs or was one and done...
So the notion Harden has played with better players is false...again I'm not questioning that Chuck is an All-Time great, I acknowledge that just like everyone else! But yall wouldn't love him like that in this era. Harden is also an All-Time great and gets beat upon consistently by the same crowd praising Chuck, as someone else said you would have to be 40 at minimum to have seen even half Chuck's career, most of us in here commenting aren't 40 and are doing what we normally do with players of previous eras, exalting them for things we shyt on current guys about...
My dad is 55 and I've said before he was a Sixers fan as a kid because he was a World B Free and Doc fan. I won't say his opinion of Chuck as "overrated" is the golden rule, but he saw Chuck's entire career in real time as it was happening and when I just asked him about it again yesterday he has a hard time calling Chuck Top 5 for any sustained period of time (that's probably his memory fukking up, because it does look like Chuck was pretty convincingly Top 5 from 87 to 93)...but he was a lifelong Sixers fan and saw all of Chuck's career, it's interesting to see that at least some older heads are gonna contrast in their view of Barkley compared to us young bucks retrofitting his career...
Yall would not live Chuck like that if you're judging him the same way yall judge these current players; obviously different positions and style but in scale and relative to other guys in his era, Chuck seems very closely like his time's Beard, who is also a Top 5 player of his generation and a Top 50 All-Timer...
Chucky beat Godzilla homie.
Here's the thing. Analytics can't possibly tell the whole story. You had to watch chuck in real time. His eye test was much better than hardens. He could score in a much better variety than harden. He was a matchup nightmare. Harden is a terrific scorer but you knew what he was gonna do. Barkley was more unpredictable. And a goat rebounder to go with it. And once again he led his team to the finals and lost to Michael Jeffrey Jordan. Harden hasn't sniffed the finals as a number 1. That's the real reason. Those other numbers doesn't aren't nowhere near as important. These reasons hold more weight. The points you bring up do tell some of the story. But those that actually watched him play during his career will tell you Barkley was flat out better.
murksiderock
Superstar
Nah I agree numbers don't tell the entire story. It just helps at least frame something for people like me who didnt see him play...
People know what Harden's gonna do and he still does it, that's called "dominance". His offensive bag is deep too, he can kill you from any angle on offense if he's in the zone...
Neither Beard nor Barkley are known as defensive threats either, that's another parallel...
I just look at Chuck's Finals run as a great accolade, but would Harden have made The Finals if not for GS in '15 and '18? The '10s Warriors and the '90s Bulls were the same team in terms of dominance over the NBA, we give a bunch of guys passes for losing to Chicago in the East playoffs. Harden not making a Finals as a #1 does matter to me, but not in the context of comparing to a guy who only made it once (same amount of times Harden went), and lost to the same figurative dynasty that Harden couldn't beat in the WCF...
In your opinion, who were the Top 10 players of the 90s overall? 80s as well? Just asking because Beard is a Top 5 player of the 2010s...
mbewane
Knicks: 93 til infinity
One of the players that really made me love the game early on. And I believe those Air Max were the first signature shoes I got 
Suns didn't choke against Houston. They just couldn't beat them...they didn't match up well. The crazy thing is that Houston couldn't beat Sonics, but the Suns could. They just never ended up getting those matchups
Barkley was a defender though, especially in Philly. He was a post defender, and made it hard for the post player to get great positioning, his box-out and leaping skills were insane, and he had active & quick hands. The only way you were scoring on Barkley, as a post player was to turn around and shoot over him. Everyone couldn't do it, probably only Mailman was good at it, because any other big that faced up, Chuck was smacking the ball out of their hands.
i always thought chuck was the second best player in the league during the MJ era.
The Durant to MJ's Lebron. If he did more ring chasing early on, people would probably have him ranked much higher.
The Durant to MJ's Lebron. If he did more ring chasing early on, people would probably have him ranked much higher.
Call a former mvp underated brehs