COVID-19 Pandemic (Coronavirus)

[Macallik86]

wut? give me a connected assertion breh.


or is it random points friday ?

my bad, since you just quoted wikipedia and I read your article, I figured you would have the courtesy to read quotes from an actual paper. Here's the cliff notes:

Titers drop dramatically for MMR vaccine after a few weeks/months as well. Vaccines still served to eradicate MMR from the developed world for the most part (it is experiencing a resurgence now due to vax hesitancy.)

Antibodies aren't the only way to prove immunity which is why many medical professionals recommended against the antibody tests.

With that said, my guess is that part of the reason prior vaccines have been so effective is that if everyone gets vaxxed at once, then the virus has less chance to spread even as the antibodies wane. However, in a situation where the body has to repeatedly fight off the virus, that may not be enough. Long story shory, herd immunity worked back in the day but we are struggling now.

 

[null]

Titers drop dramatically for all vaccines

what's the connection?

 

[Macallik86]

what's the connection?

Edited in more info you can reply to or start a convo about.

 

[null]

sorry but I am still missing the point of how this is related to how covid antibodies are used as a correlated proxy to measure likelihood of infection and/or serious illness.

my bad, since you just quoted wikipedia and I read your article, I figured you would have the courtesy to read quotes from an actual paper.

desperately seeking a point ... and I didn't "just quote". my first line stated the point I was making.

Titers drop dramatically for MMR vaccine after a few weeks/months as well. Vaccines still served to eradicate MMR from the developed world for the most part (it is experiencing a resurgence now due to vax hesitancy.)

ok

Antibodies aren't the only way to prove immunity which is why many medical professionals recommended against the antibody tests.

who said anything about proving immunity. it's statistical reasoning. "less likely, more likely, probability distributions"

also:

Spoiler: ...

possible explanation:

A. illness upper respiratory tract (incl. nasal cavity) - fast build up, not "severe", no hospitalisation most cases, transmission, mutations, "cold like (delta) symptoms", detectable via RT-PCR test, can permeate blood-brain barrier.

B. illness lower respiratory tract - slower build up, can build up to be severe, mutations, can build up to hospitalisation, possible lung damage, possible follow on organ damage

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high antibodies protect against the swift attack of A. secondary immune system protects against the build up of B in the absence of high antibodies and/or an effective defence.

waning antibodies opens up the possibility of URT infection, mutations, long covid, transmission etc as listed under A PLUS if the primary immune system is not good enough less likely but possible severe LRT infection.

waning longer-term secondary immune system ceteris-paribus means more severe cases.

them not being clear about the various stages (or "types" even) of infection is confusing people. in other words covid infection is not always the same in terms of what is actually infected (and the degree, of course).

this is why the common symptoms of vaccinated with delta are upper respiratory tract biased. i.e. in your head rather than your lungs e-grow .

"Headache, sneezing, sore throat, and loss of smell rounded out the rest of the top five symptoms for fully vaccinated people who contracted COVID.

Missing from that top-five list was coughing or shortness of breath, which were among the most frequently reported signs of COVID-19 early in the pandemic, before vaccines were available. A runny nose and sneezing were not commonly reported in initial cases."

there is no way to measure B/T-cell preparedness so we will see if this attenuates on the results side of things.

Spoiler: covid infection

Spoiler: immune system

Spoiler: mutation

With that said, my guess is that part of the reason prior vaccines have been so effective is that if everyone gets vaxxed at once, then the virus has less chance to spread even as the antibodies wane.

"statistical reasoning" like you just did ^ by using "less"

However, in a situation where the body has to repeatedly fight off the virus, that may not be enough.

...

Long story shory, herd immunity worked back in the day but we are struggling now.

you learn something new every day ..

Spoiler: ...

Jan 2021

Just wait until people figure out that the vaccines aren't going to .... be a silver bullet

June 2021

5. vaccines not preventing infection inhibit herd immunity.

this fosters further variants and increased risk in the unvaccinated and the people who cannot take the vaccines or for whom they do not work.

herd immunity is highly unlikely via the vaccines.

Dec 2020

There is an assumption that the vaccine(s) can lead to herd immunity and this has not been established yet.

June 2020

how do you know that herd immunity would work? how long do antibodies last?

Jan 2021

i have said clearly why it (they) [the vaccines] are not a silver bullet - namely coverage (not under 16's/allergies/5%-10% low-to-no efficacy), transmissibility+infectivity unknown, mutations (escape), higher-level herd immunity likely, roll-out logistics, animal reservoirs (esp. mink), antibody/protection duration, potential for long-term vaccine side-effects.

 

[Kyle C. Barker]

Ok but those aren't mandated. What place is asking to see proof of vaccination and tuberculosis?

College

 

[Macallik86]

sorry but I am still missing the point of how this is related to how covid antibodies are used as a correlated proxy to measure likelihood of infection and/or serious illness.



desperately seeking a point ... and I didn't "just quote". my first line stated the point I was making.



ok



who said anything about proving immunity. it's statistical reasoning. "less likely, more likely, probability distributions"

also:




"statistical reasoning" like you just did ^ by using "less"



...



you learn something new every day ..

Spoiler: ...

Jan 2021



June 2021



Dec 2020



June 2020



Jan 2021

I appreciate the more in-depth response.

I think my issue with your approach/reasoning is that you are suggesting that the inability to reach herd immunity is a flaw of the vaccines as opposed to a flaw/feature of humanity.

As the MMR2 paper suggested, even those with waning antibodies have better responses than unvaxxed populations.

You highlighted my suggestion that the vaccines didn't lose effectiveness. However, relative to other vaccines such as MMR, they follow a similar trajectory re:antibodies, and based on the research that I've read, they outperform unvaxxed individuals who catch covid.

Additionally, science suggests that herd immunity w/o vaccination seems unlikely w/ coronaviruses:

“The overall goal of the study was to provide an answer to a question that at this point in the pandemic would be impossible to answer empirically, which is how long after you’ve been infected by SARS-CoV-2 can you expect to possess immunity against the virus before you become vulnerable to reinfection?” said Hayley Hassler, a research associate at the School of Public Health and one of the study’s co-authors.

The study showed that the duration of immunity is relatively short. According to Hassler, the risk of reinfection is about five percent at three months after the initial infection. After 17 months, that number increases to 50 percent.

Townsend noted that this result was not unexpected, given that natural immunity against other coronaviruses in humans tends to be short-lived. But one cause for concern is that COVID-19 has more dangerous outcomes during and after infection compared to common colds.

COVID-19 reinfection is likely among unvaccinated individuals, Yale study finds

 

[2stainz]

Yall remember Corona? Whole world was in a panic... what every happened to that?

 

[Atlrocafella]

Got my booster today for various reasons. Hoping to not need it again but will do so if the situation doesnt improve in 6 months or whatever

This. I’m not scared of shots and get the Flu shot every year as well

 

[duncanthetall]

Got my booster today for various reasons. Hoping to not need it again but will do so if the situation doesnt improve in 6 months or whatever

My girl and I both got our boosters today. Feel the same. TBH don’t really care if I do. Just wanna give myself the best odds against it if I do get it. Took about 5 mins at Walmart. The pharmacist told me since I didn’t have any side effects immediately after after my first 2 doses I could just go after getting it. It’s way too simple to get the shyt these days for someone to not have taken a dose

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

holy shyt

 

[$cam-U-Well_Jack$on]

Finna get my booster at CVS in da morning.

Got it this morning. They ain't ask no questions about qualifications. Was in & out.

 

[$cam-U-Well_Jack$on]

This. I’m not scared of shots and get the Flu shot every year as well

I'm thinkin' I might gon' head and get da flu shot too. I never have before.

 

[Atlrocafella]

I'm thinkin' I might gon' head and get da flu shot too. I never have before.

I caught the flu bad in December 2010 and I felt like I was going to die , and I’ve been getting the flu shot every year ever since.

 

[null]

I think my issue with your approach/reasoning is that you are suggesting that the inability to reach herd immunity is a flaw of the vaccines as opposed to a flaw/feature of humanity.

it is a flaw of the vaccines given the attributes of SARS Cov II itself.

attributes such as escape mutation, asymptomatic spread, high R naught, non sterilising immunity, reinfection. especially asymptomatic spread (which is why Covid 19 is hard to stop and also harder than other corona viruses SARS I or MERS).

animals can carry and infect others with Covid. animals cannot catch measles. this alone means that control of the transmission of Covid is is much harder and not just bound to human behaviour.

not sure why you think MMR particulars automatically map to all other viruses (specifically Covid). Measles for example has very different attributes to SARS Cov II so why should conclusions for one automatically map to the other?

this constant tick at the core of each of your replies undermines your point. if you wish to draw such conclusions you need to point out the similarities that mean that one wholly applies to the other and explain why differences (lifelong immunity for example) plays no role.

Spoiler: ...

Measles shots are good for life, chickenpox immunizations protect for 10 to 20 years, and tetanus jabs last a decade or more. But U.S. officials are weighing whether to authorize Covid-19 boosters for vaccinated adults as soon as six months after the initial inoculation.

Some Vaccines Last a Lifetime. Here’s Why Covid-19 Shots Don’t.

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that's measles for you. i trust now that you have been given an example of how to do it, you can take a critical look at the other two.

when the flaw is your reasoning, rather than your arguments (although one is bound up with the other), there isn't much more to say.

you cannot do a quick google and suddenly become the master of all you survey. did you watch the videos that I posted?

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finally why are you telling me about short-lived protection against coronaviruses when I was already making that point in 2020. spare the waffle. spare the answering of questions that no one is asking. spare the countering of points that no one is making and points which have only be made in your imagination. if you insist, post the connective tissue to any point which I have made and how your text applies. otherwise it is just muddying the waters for little purpose and to even less effect.

 

[null]

"The Netherlands will become the first western European country to impose a partial lockdown since the summer, introducing strict new measures from Saturday (today!!!) in the face of record numbers of new Covid-19 infections."
Netherlands imposes lockdown measures as Covid cases hit new high

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"Austria is to introduce a lockdown for unvaccinated people in two of Europe’s worst-hit coronavirus regions from Monday and could extend it across the country, the chancellor, Alexander Schallenberg, has said."
Austria to put millions of unvaccinated people in Covid lockdown





#faneto