"'Clair Obscur: Expedition 33' utterly destroys Square Enix's gaslighting over Final Fantasy turn-based combat"-Windows Central

[Fanservice]

FFXV should be left out of these type of discussions. People forget it was originally a spinoff game that only got pushed into being a mainline game because FFXIV 1.0 was a huge failure and hurt SE a lot financially.

FFXVI should’ve been the series’ return to form tho. No excuses for that one.

 

[Fatboi1]

Yeah, Rebirth is hot garbage because there was some optional minigames littered throughout the game. Ignore everything else that it had going for it because reasons.

 

[hex]

Read the rest

The bigger issue in my opinion is that Square’s gotten too big for their britches, FF is natively a niche product and series, they got lucky with the OG FF7 and advent children taking off, but their philosophy changes to accomodate and make FF accessible to the mainstream has largely just pissed off the core fanbase and hasnt really worked on the casual fanbase outside of FF14. They should realize this and appeal to the core fanbase again, IMO.


Were agreeing with each other

Respectfully, nah man.

We came to the same conclusion (Square needs to go back to it's turn based roots) but I disagree with pretty much the entirety of what you're saying here.

"FF" is one of the longest running most successful franchises in gaming history. It's not niche by any measure of the word.

Square's issue is, they don't seem to realize turn based combat is mainstream, and has been for a very long time. They're stuck in the early 00's. They think fans want an RPG/"Devil May Cry" hybrid which doesn't please RPG fans, or action/adventure fans. That's why the reception for "FF" has been lukewarm for a minute. It's why straight turn based RPGs are performing as well as, if not better than, "FF".

They need to bite the bullet and make a traditional turn based RPG "FF". Their fan base is so divided at this point I'm not even sure how it would be received. Which is insane because "FF" practically birthed the subgenre in gaming.

Fred.

 

[Gizmo_Duck]

It's why straight turn based RPGs are performing as well as, if not better than, "FF".

No they arent

outside of persona 5 and all its spinoffs and re-releases, we’re talking about games that are lucky to do 1.5-2m lifetime sales.

the only JRPG series that consistently outsells FF is Pokemon and they are going less and less turn based as well

 

[Prince Akeem]

Yeah Rebirth seems to get nitpicked a lot online for no reason. Rebirth was absolutely a masterpiece.

Rebirth and remake is SE best work since FFX. The hate it's gets online is weird as hell and partially driven by tribalism.

 

[hex]

No they arent

outside of persona 5 and all its spinoffs and re-releases, we’re talking about games that are lucky to do 1.5-2m lifetime sales.

the only JRPG series that consistently outsells FF is Pokemon and they are going less and less turn based as well

Again, "Baldur's Gate 3" sold 15+ mill.

"FF16" sold 3.5 mill as of March 2025.

"FF15" sold 10 mill in 6 years.

"FF13" sold 7 mill in it's life time.

etc etc etc.

"Clair Obscur" sold 1 mill in 3 days with a fraction of the budget, exponentially less people working on it, and no brand recognition tied into it unlike "Final Fantasy".

I'm kinda confused what metric you're using. Square has zero reason not to do a turn based "FF" title.

Fred.

 

[Maude]

clair obscur drops and now thecoli knows whats best for square enix

 

[Gizmo_Duck]

Again, "Baldur's Gate 3" sold 15+ mill.

the discussion is about JRPGs, Baldur’s gate 3 is not a JRPG and it doesn’t play like a typical turn based JRPG. Even in its own separate genre it’s an anomaly of a game, most CRPGs are lucky to do 10% of BG3’s sales. Baldur’s Gate 3 is a D&D/table top inspired role playing game where you essentially create your own adventure. Final Fantasy games are linear story driven games, they cater to completely different audiences.

"FF16" sold 3.5 mill as of March 2025.

"FF15" sold 10 mill in 6 years.

"FF13" sold 7 mill in it's life time.

etc etc etc.

Correct.

and here’s what other popular JRPGS are selling…

Persona 3 Reload Becomes Fastest-Selling Game in Atlus History With 1 Million Sales - IGN

Persona 3 Reload has become the fastest-selling game in Atlus history with more than one million copies sold in its first week.

www.ign.com

Metaphor: ReFantazio Surpasses 1 Million Copies Sold Worldwide - Persona Central

Atlus has announced that Metaphor: ReFantazio has surpassed 1 million total worldwide sales (shipped and download copies).

personacentral.com

Nintendo million sellers - May 2023 - Fire Emblem Engage at 1.61 million, Metroid Prime Remastered at 1.09 million, more

Going along with Nintendo’s latest financial results, we have an updated list of million sellers on Switch. A few new games appear on the list for the first time – specifically Fire Emblem Engage, Kirby’s Return to Dream Land Deluxe, and Metroid Prime Remastered. All of these titles managed to...

nintendoeverything.com

Octopath Traveler series shipments and digital sales top five million

Total shipments and digital sales for the Octopath Traveler series have surpassed five million units, Square Enix announced.

www.gematsu.com

Like a Dragon: Infinite Wealth Sells 1 Million Copies - IGN

Like a Dragon: Infinite Wealth has become the Yakuza series' fastest-selling game to date, passing one million units sold within its first week on sale.

www.ign.com

Tales of Arise Has Already Hit An Impressive Sales Milestone - IGN

Tales of Arise is the fastest-selling game in the entire Tales franchise after selling over 1 million units in just a few days.

www.ign.com

Final Fantasy is still in a league of its own as far as JRPG’s go. Hence, why they aren’t trying to compete with persona and their own turn based titles, tehy are trying to compete with the elden rings, god of wars, Cyberpunks, Elder Scrolls, Monster hunters, etc.

they want their games to do 15m lifetime, not 3m. No turn based RPGS are doing those numbers, outside of like i said, Pokemon which is going more action everyday.

 

[hex]

You said jrpg, Baldur’s gate 3 is not a JRPG and it doesn’t play like a typical turn based JRPG. Even in its own separate genre it’s an anomaly of a game, most CRPGs are lucky to do 10% of BG3’s sales. Baldur’s Gate 3 is a D&D/table top inspired role playing game where you essentially create your own adventure. Final Fantasy games are linear story driven games, they cater to completely different audiences.




Correct.

and here’s what other populnar JRPGS are selling…

Persona 3 Reload Becomes Fastest-Selling Game in Atlus History With 1 Million Sales - IGN

Persona 3 Reload has become the fastest-selling game in Atlus history with more than one million copies sold in its first week.

www.ign.com

Metaphor: ReFantazio Surpasses 1 Million Copies Sold Worldwide - Persona Central

Atlus has announced that Metaphor: ReFantazio has surpassed 1 million total worldwide sales (shipped and download copies).

personacentral.com

Nintendo million sellers - May 2023 - Fire Emblem Engage at 1.61 million, Metroid Prime Remastered at 1.09 million, more

Going along with Nintendo’s latest financial results, we have an updated list of million sellers on Switch. A few new games appear on the list for the first time – specifically Fire Emblem Engage, Kirby’s Return to Dream Land Deluxe, and Metroid Prime Remastered. All of these titles managed to...

nintendoeverything.com

Octopath Traveler series shipments and digital sales top five million

Total shipments and digital sales for the Octopath Traveler series have surpassed five million units, Square Enix announced.

www.gematsu.com

Like a Dragon: Infinite Wealth Sells 1 Million Copies - IGN

Like a Dragon: Infinite Wealth has become the Yakuza series' fastest-selling game to date, passing one million units sold within its first week on sale.

www.ign.com

Tales of Arise Has Already Hit An Impressive Sales Milestone - IGN

Tales of Arise is the fastest-selling game in the entire Tales franchise after selling over 1 million units in just a few days.

www.ign.com

Huh?

I never said anything about JRPGs. I said "straight RPGs", IE turn based.

Fred.

 

[MeachTheMonster]

clair obscur drops and now thecoli knows whats best for square enix

Square said a turn based game like Claire Obscure couldn’t work.

Claire Obscure worked.

Imagine if square made real FF game

 

[Gizmo_Duck]

Huh?

I never said anything about JRPGs. I said "straight RPGs", IE turn based.

Fred.

And square enix has never made a turn based CRPG-style game like Baldur’s Gate in their entire history of making games and I doubt they could if they tried.

Not all “turn based” games are the same otherwise you might as well throw x-com and Civ in the discussion.

 

[Formerly Black Trash]

Now following the logic here as "Baldur's Gate 3" was an old school turn based CRPG and it outsold the last several "Final Fantasy" games and killed pretty much everything during awards season.

Fred.

I thought BG 3 was real time? I never played it

But i agree, there's a market for turn base and fukk boomers who sau they don't want it

Gamers will eat shyt if its sold to them for a high price

 

[Gizmo_Duck]

fukk boomers who sau they don't want it

It’s boomers who keep crying over it. The market and the sales numbers of the big turned based jrpgs are whats telling people casual gamers don’t want them

clair obscur doing a million in sales isn’t flipping the narrative, its an indie game. SE’s AA turn based games already do a million in sales, IE Dragon Quest remakes, and Octopath games.

Square want their tentpole franchise to sell like God of War not Yakuza

 

[MeachTheMonster]

And square enix has never made a turn based CRPG-style game like Baldur’s Gate in their entire history of making games and I doubt they could if they tried.

Not all “turn based” games are the same otherwise you might as well throw x-com and Civ in the discussion.

Without even talking about any other games and genres.

Final Fantasy sales and success has gone down the further they’ve moved from the formula that got them there.

All around media we are seeing nostalgia or “throw back” content having great success.

A Final Fantasy game true to FF roots could and i think would be very successful.

Claire Obscure is proof it could work and people would be into it. Not sure why you wanna fight for square to keep doing shyt thats shrinking the franchise

 

[hex]

And square enix has never made a turn based CRPG-style game like Baldur’s Gate in their entire history of making games and I doubt they could if they tried.

Not all “turn based” games are the same otherwise you might as well throw x-com in the discussion.

They are all the same for the purposes of this discussion.

The article in the OP is comparing "FF" and "Expedition 33". The only thing separating a JRPG from a Larian game or "Expedition 33" is a JRPG is made in Japan. That's it. And the term CRPG is completely meaningless as those games now appear on consoles.

It's 2025, nobody gives a f*ck about separating the sub-sub genres of RPGs.

EDIT:

What's crazy is if you go on Steam right now "Expedition 33" is listed as a JRPG.

Japanese Role-Playing

JRPG Hub

store.steampowered.com

Fred.