I'll wait a decade...or 2...
Why not?
China’s electric vehicle dominance presents a challenge to the west
- Thread starter bnew
- Start date
Lol how much you want to bet. EVs are about to make gasoline cars obsolete.
That's what you had to add to the conversation?Yes indeed princess
Pure gasoline car might become obsolete but I could see a future for hybrid vehicle for area with fewer infrastructure.
levitate
I love you, you know.
By oil companies…
AStrangeName
Member of Snitch Syndication
The same oil companies that held back hybrid vehicles progressions, which would've made the transition to EV easier.
Cakebatter
All Star
Tesla's agreement with the Chinese banks makes it nearly impossible for Tesla to repatriate any profits from its Chinese business. My guess is only Elon would be stupid enough to take that deal. I predict one of two things: Tesla sales in China stalls and they get the "Saleen" treatment, or it starts to outpace its western counterpart and breaks off from Tesla US / Elon inverts the entire company to a Chinese entity.Btw, fun fact. Tesla is the only foreign company out of all car manufacturers working in China that actually has a full ownership of their company. And not a minimum of 51% given to China....
In exchange Musk has Twitter filled with INCREDIBLE amount of chinese communist bots. Very often bots that been banned from facebook, etc. Coincidence? Yeah right
BYD looks scary, and the EU automakers are already panicking. The US automakers will too when BYD finishes its Mexico factory. Its not ready for the states yet, but here is a glimpse of how inexpensive BYD can make a 250 mile range EV....
Yes the shytty US grid can handle 50% of cars being EVs. The primary reason is the vast majority of charging occurs during off peak hours. Also Solar panel adoption is growing fast, which offsets any additional on-peak usage. EVs aren't for every lifestyle, but they fit the bill for the vast majority of home owners and people in 2 car families. If you think Americans are afraid to buy a Chinese made vehicle. Too late. The Buick Envista, Buick Envision, and Lincoln Nautilus are all manufactured in China, imported, then sold in the US.
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Joe Biden will double, triple and quadruple tariffs on some Chinese goods, with EV duties jumping to 102.5% from 27.5%
Biden will target key sectors including electric vehicles, batteries, solar cells, steel and aluminum.
Joe Biden will double, triple and quadruple tariffs on some Chinese goods, with EV duties jumping to 102.5% from 27.5%
BYJOSH WINGROVE, JENNIFER A. DLOUHY, ERIC MARTIN AND BLOOMBERGMay 12, 2024 at 7:15 PM EDT
Biden will hike or add tariffs in key sectors after nearly two years of review.
SCOTT OLSON—GETTY IMAGES
President Joe Biden will double, triple and quadruple tariffs on some Chinese goods this week, unveiling the measures at a White House event framed as a defense of American workers, people familiar with the matter say.
Biden will hike or add tariffs in key sectors after nearly two years of review. The total tariff on Chinese electric vehicles will rise to 102.5% from 27.5%, the people said, speaking on condition of anonymity ahead of the announcement. Others will double or triple in targeted industries, though the scope remains unclear.
Biden and his staff spent recent weeks finalizing the measures, including which items to hit and which to avoid because the inputs are needed to fuel American growth, one of the people said. The final decision was a consensus, the person said.
It’s not clear which items were spared but Biden won’t announce tariff rate reductions, two of the people said. The administration has signaled to the US solar industry that it’ll move to exclude some items, including machinery used to make solar panel components. The shift has been sought by some equipment makers who say current levies undermine Biden’s goal of wresting clean-energy supply chains from China.
The 2024 presidential race looms large over the flagship announcement: Biden is trying to crack down on China and differentiate himself from Donald Trump — whose original tariffs Biden is set to largely renew, but who is seeking widespread hikes that the current administration views as going too far.
The Biden administration has been “focused on sectors of longstanding concern,” said Greta Peisch, a partner at law firm Wiley Rein LLP who served until January as the top trade lawyer for the US Trade Representative’s office.
“These are calculated to address particular activities and risks and avoid escalation, to maintain the relationship with China that we have” outside those key goods, she said.
The White House declined to comment on the tariffs. The auto-tariff quadrupling was first reported by the Wall Street Journal.
Biden will target key sectors including electric vehicles, batteries, solar cells, steel and aluminum, people have said. He has previously announced the steel and aluminum tariffs, which will increase to 25% on some products that have a 7.5% rate or no tariffs now. The EV rate aims to protect the US from a potential flood of Chinese autos that could upend the politically sensitive auto sector.
Trump’s 200%
The announcement is the culmination of a review of tariffs first imposed by Trump, who mocked the announcement during a campaign rally in New Jersey on Saturday.”He says he’s going to put a 100% tariff on all Chinese electric vehicles. Isn’t that nice?” Trump said. “Biden should have done this four years ago.”
He warned that Chinese companies will try to build cars in Mexico, then avoid tariffs by shipping them to the US under the US-Mexico-Canada Agreement, which Trump agreed to as president. Trump said he’d put a 200% tariff on Chinese-made cars in Mexico.
“I will put a 200% tax on every car that comes in from those plants, and they’re not going to do that,” he said. Trump has also pledged a 60% across-the-board tariff on all Chinese goods — a move Biden is stopping well short of, with allies saying it would fuel inflation.
Biden’s measures are less about crushing segments of the market than heading off an anticipated increase in imports: Chinese steel, aluminum and autos make up tiny fractions of the US supply for now. The administration has warned that China is pushing to corner the market on key sectors and flood the US with subsidized goods, to destabilize its rival and power its own recovery.
Still, the jockeying signals a bipartisan consensus – led by the two presumptive candidates for the presidency – on the threat that Chinese electric vehicles pose to the US.
It didn’t damp enthusiasm for the US debut of Zeekr Intelligent Technology Holding Ltd., the high-end electric car brand under Zhejiang Geely Holding Group Co., which rose 35% Friday after an expanded initial public offering that’s the biggest US listing by a China-based company since 2021. One of its executives downplayed the planned tariffs.
“We’re not considering short-term headwinds. We think long-term and try to make sure in the long run we make a very, very good business case,” Chief Financial Officer Jing Yuan told Bloomberg Television on Friday. “It’s more about long-term view rather than short-term headwinds.”
The administration’s approach is consistent with its goal to target China while maintaining a relationship, Peisch said.
“It’s about being strategic, not an across-the-board escalation, but what makes sense as a response to China and support for impacted US sectors,” she said.
Joe Biden will double, triple and quadruple tariffs on some Chinese goods, with EV duties jumping to 102.5% from 27.5%
Biden will target key sectors including electric vehicles, batteries, solar cells, steel and aluminum.fortune.com
Joe Biden will double, triple and quadruple tariffs on some Chinese goods, with EV duties jumping to 102.5% from 27.5%
BYJOSH WINGROVE, JENNIFER A. DLOUHY, ERIC MARTIN AND BLOOMBERG
May 12, 2024 at 7:15 PM EDT
Biden will hike or add tariffs in key sectors after nearly two years of review.
SCOTT OLSON—GETTY IMAGES
President Joe Biden will double, triple and quadruple tariffs on some Chinese goods this week, unveiling the measures at a White House event framed as a defense of American workers, people familiar with the matter say.
Biden will hike or add tariffs in key sectors after nearly two years of review. The total tariff on Chinese electric vehicles will rise to 102.5% from 27.5%, the people said, speaking on condition of anonymity ahead of the announcement. Others will double or triple in targeted industries, though the scope remains unclear.
Biden and his staff spent recent weeks finalizing the measures, including which items to hit and which to avoid because the inputs are needed to fuel American growth, one of the people said. The final decision was a consensus, the person said.
It’s not clear which items were spared but Biden won’t announce tariff rate reductions, two of the people said. The administration has signaled to the US solar industry that it’ll move to exclude some items, including machinery used to make solar panel components. The shift has been sought by some equipment makers who say current levies undermine Biden’s goal of wresting clean-energy supply chains from China.
The 2024 presidential race looms large over the flagship announcement: Biden is trying to crack down on China and differentiate himself from Donald Trump — whose original tariffs Biden is set to largely renew, but who is seeking widespread hikes that the current administration views as going too far.
The Biden administration has been “focused on sectors of longstanding concern,” said Greta Peisch, a partner at law firm Wiley Rein LLP who served until January as the top trade lawyer for the US Trade Representative’s office.
“These are calculated to address particular activities and risks and avoid escalation, to maintain the relationship with China that we have” outside those key goods, she said.
The White House declined to comment on the tariffs. The auto-tariff quadrupling was first reported by the Wall Street Journal.
Biden will target key sectors including electric vehicles, batteries, solar cells, steel and aluminum, people have said. He has previously announced the steel and aluminum tariffs, which will increase to 25% on some products that have a 7.5% rate or no tariffs now. The EV rate aims to protect the US from a potential flood of Chinese autos that could upend the politically sensitive auto sector.
Trump’s 200%
The announcement is the culmination of a review of tariffs first imposed by Trump, who mocked the announcement during a campaign rally in New Jersey on Saturday.
”He says he’s going to put a 100% tariff on all Chinese electric vehicles. Isn’t that nice?” Trump said. “Biden should have done this four years ago.”
He warned that Chinese companies will try to build cars in Mexico, then avoid tariffs by shipping them to the US under the US-Mexico-Canada Agreement, which Trump agreed to as president. Trump said he’d put a 200% tariff on Chinese-made cars in Mexico.
“I will put a 200% tax on every car that comes in from those plants, and they’re not going to do that,” he said. Trump has also pledged a 60% across-the-board tariff on all Chinese goods — a move Biden is stopping well short of, with allies saying it would fuel inflation.
Biden’s measures are less about crushing segments of the market than heading off an anticipated increase in imports: Chinese steel, aluminum and autos make up tiny fractions of the US supply for now. The administration has warned that China is pushing to corner the market on key sectors and flood the US with subsidized goods, to destabilize its rival and power its own recovery.
Still, the jockeying signals a bipartisan consensus – led by the two presumptive candidates for the presidency – on the threat that Chinese electric vehicles pose to the US.
It didn’t damp enthusiasm for the US debut of Zeekr Intelligent Technology Holding Ltd., the high-end electric car brand under Zhejiang Geely Holding Group Co., which rose 35% Friday after an expanded initial public offering that’s the biggest US listing by a China-based company since 2021. One of its executives downplayed the planned tariffs.
“We’re not considering short-term headwinds. We think long-term and try to make sure in the long run we make a very, very good business case,” Chief Financial Officer Jing Yuan told Bloomberg Television on Friday. “It’s more about long-term view rather than short-term headwinds.”
The administration’s approach is consistent with its goal to target China while maintaining a relationship, Peisch said.
“It’s about being strategic, not an across-the-board escalation, but what makes sense as a response to China and support for impacted US sectors,” she said.
Millions of American cars are sold in China.
IIVI
Superstar
Joe Biden will double, triple and quadruple tariffs on some Chinese goods, with EV duties jumping to 102.5% from 27.5%
Biden will target key sectors including electric vehicles, batteries, solar cells, steel and aluminum.Joe Biden will double, triple and quadruple tariffs on some Chinese goods, with EV duties jumping to 102.5% from 27.5%
BYJOSH WINGROVE, JENNIFER A. DLOUHY, ERIC MARTIN AND BLOOMBERG
May 12, 2024 at 7:15 PM EDT
Biden will hike or add tariffs in key sectors after nearly two years of review.
SCOTT OLSON—GETTY IMAGES
President Joe Biden will double, triple and quadruple tariffs on some Chinese goods this week, unveiling the measures at a White House event framed as a defense of American workers, people familiar with the matter say.
Biden will hike or add tariffs in key sectors after nearly two years of review. The total tariff on Chinese electric vehicles will rise to 102.5% from 27.5%, the people said, speaking on condition of anonymity ahead of the announcement. Others will double or triple in targeted industries, though the scope remains unclear.
Biden and his staff spent recent weeks finalizing the measures, including which items to hit and which to avoid because the inputs are needed to fuel American growth, one of the people said. The final decision was a consensus, the person said.
It’s not clear which items were spared but Biden won’t announce tariff rate reductions, two of the people said. The administration has signaled to the US solar industry that it’ll move to exclude some items, including machinery used to make solar panel components. The shift has been sought by some equipment makers who say current levies undermine Biden’s goal of wresting clean-energy supply chains from China.
The 2024 presidential race looms large over the flagship announcement: Biden is trying to crack down on China and differentiate himself from Donald Trump — whose original tariffs Biden is set to largely renew, but who is seeking widespread hikes that the current administration views as going too far.
The Biden administration has been “focused on sectors of longstanding concern,” said Greta Peisch, a partner at law firm Wiley Rein LLP who served until January as the top trade lawyer for the US Trade Representative’s office.
“These are calculated to address particular activities and risks and avoid escalation, to maintain the relationship with China that we have” outside those key goods, she said.
The White House declined to comment on the tariffs. The auto-tariff quadrupling was first reported by the Wall Street Journal.
Biden will target key sectors including electric vehicles, batteries, solar cells, steel and aluminum, people have said. He has previously announced the steel and aluminum tariffs, which will increase to 25% on some products that have a 7.5% rate or no tariffs now. The EV rate aims to protect the US from a potential flood of Chinese autos that could upend the politically sensitive auto sector.
Trump’s 200%
The announcement is the culmination of a review of tariffs first imposed by Trump, who mocked the announcement during a campaign rally in New Jersey on Saturday.
”He says he’s going to put a 100% tariff on all Chinese electric vehicles. Isn’t that nice?” Trump said. “Biden should have done this four years ago.”
He warned that Chinese companies will try to build cars in Mexico, then avoid tariffs by shipping them to the US under the US-Mexico-Canada Agreement, which Trump agreed to as president. Trump said he’d put a 200% tariff on Chinese-made cars in Mexico.
“I will put a 200% tax on every car that comes in from those plants, and they’re not going to do that,” he said. Trump has also pledged a 60% across-the-board tariff on all Chinese goods — a move Biden is stopping well short of, with allies saying it would fuel inflation.
Biden’s measures are less about crushing segments of the market than heading off an anticipated increase in imports: Chinese steel, aluminum and autos make up tiny fractions of the US supply for now. The administration has warned that China is pushing to corner the market on key sectors and flood the US with subsidized goods, to destabilize its rival and power its own recovery.
Still, the jockeying signals a bipartisan consensus – led by the two presumptive candidates for the presidency – on the threat that Chinese electric vehicles pose to the US.
It didn’t damp enthusiasm for the US debut of Zeekr Intelligent Technology Holding Ltd., the high-end electric car brand under Zhejiang Geely Holding Group Co., which rose 35% Friday after an expanded initial public offering that’s the biggest US listing by a China-based company since 2021. One of its executives downplayed the planned tariffs.
“We’re not considering short-term headwinds. We think long-term and try to make sure in the long run we make a very, very good business case,” Chief Financial Officer Jing Yuan told Bloomberg Television on Friday. “It’s more about long-term view rather than short-term headwinds.”
The administration’s approach is consistent with its goal to target China while maintaining a relationship, Peisch said.
“It’s about being strategic, not an across-the-board escalation, but what makes sense as a response to China and support for impacted US sectors,” she said.
I understand maybe it's for the longterm, but I think this screws over our generation while we're waiting for infrastructure to catch up, which may takes decades and people may not make it that long. Not to mention roadbumps no one sees coming right along the way. Everyone has a plan until they get hit.
The shytty thing is these CEO's don't care because they're trying to hire outside labor anyways like mentioned in the tech layoffs thread:
So more expensive cars, less high-paying jobs through the 2020's and 2030's.
I'd love to get cheap electrics and start saving more money today. A bird in hand...
they should if this is still an emerging market and one economy has cornered it then what you think is gonna happen?Does the West even care!?!?!
Basically China will dominate the global market for electric.
The CEO of Ford says he's been driving a Xiaomi EV for the past 6 months and doesn't want to give it up
Ford CEO Jim Farley previously told a board member that China's auto industry was an "existential threat" after visiting the country in May.
www.businessinsider.com
The CEO of Ford says he's been driving a Xiaomi EV for the past 6 months and doesn't want to give it up
Kwan Wei Kevin TanFord CEO Jim Farley said in a podcast interview that he'd been driving the Xiaomi SU7, an electric vehicle made by the Chinese electronics company, for the past six months. Spencer Platt via Getty Images; Costfoto/NurPhoto via Getty Images
Ford CEO Jim Farley says he's been driving the Chinese tech giant Xiaomi's EV for the past six months.
Farley described Xiaomi as an "industry juggernaut."
Farley previously told a board member that China's auto industry was an "existential threat."
Ford CEO Jim Farley says he doesn't want to give up the Xiaomi Speed Ultra 7 he's been driving for the past half year.
"I don't like talking about the competition so much, but I drive the Xiaomi," Farley said while speaking to the British presenter Robert Llewellyn on "The Fully Charged Podcast." The podcast, which Llewellyn hosts, aired on Monday.
"We flew one from Shanghai to Chicago, and I've been driving it for six months now, and I don't want to give it up," Farley continued.
The SU7 is Xiaomi's maiden electric vehicle. The Chinese tech giant produces three versions of the car: SU7, SU7 Pro, and SU7 Max. Farley didn't specify which version he was driving.
"It's fantastic. They sell 10,000, 20,000 a month. They're sold out for six months," Farley said of Xiaomi's success with the SU7 earlier in the interview.
"You know, that is an industry juggernaut and a consumer brand that is much stronger than car companies," he added.
Representatives for Farley at Ford didn't respond to a request for comment from Business Insider sent outside regular business hours.
The popularity of the SU7 has come at a cost for Xiaomi. When Xiaomi reported its second-quarter earnings on August 21, its EV branch posted an adjusted loss of $252 million.
That means Xiaomi lost about $9,200 for each of the 27,307 SU7s it shipped that quarter. The SU7 is sold at a base price of 215,900 yuan, or about $30,000, and is available only in China.
A spokesperson for Xiaomi told BI's Matthew Loh in August that the company was looking to lower its production costs by increasing the scale of its EV arm.
"In addition, Xiaomi's first EV is a pure electric sedan, and its investment cost is relatively high, so it will take some time to digest this part of the cost," the spokesperson told Loh.
Related stories
An 'existential threat'
These aren't the first comments Farley or his fellow Ford executives have made about the scale or progress of China's EV industry.
After visiting China in May, Farley told a Ford board member that China's auto industry was an "existential threat," The Wall Street Journal reported in September.
In early 2023, Farley and his chief financial officer, John Lawler, were in China when they tested out an electric SUV made by the state-owned automaker Changan Automobile, the Journal reported.
The report said the pair was impressed by the quality of the Chinese-made EVs.
"Jim, this is nothing like before," Lawler told Farley, according to the Journal. "These guys are ahead of us."
Farley's comments have come as Chinese automakers continue to dominate the global EV market. Data compiled by the technology firm ABI Research for Business Insider shows Chinese automakers accounted for 88% of the EV market in Brazil and 70% in Thailand in the first quarter of this year.
Competing with rivals such as Xiaomi will be critical for Ford as it formulates its approach to the EV market.
Ford posted a big earnings miss in the second quarter of the year, sending the company's stock tumbling. The company's earnings per share came in at $0.47, below analyst estimates of $0.68. Its profitability for the quarter was weighed down by its EV segment, which saw a $1.14 billion loss amid slowing demand. Ford's third-quarter earnings are due on October 28.
In August, Lawler told reporters that Ford was changing its EV strategy and would replace its planned electric SUVs with hybrid models instead. The move is set to cost Ford nearly $2 billion.
Ford shares are down nearly 9% year to date.
The CEO of Ford says he's been driving a Xiaomi EV for the past 6 months and doesn't want to give it up
Ford CEO Jim Farley previously told a board member that China's auto industry was an "existential threat" after visiting the country in May.
The CEO of Ford says he's been driving a Xiaomi EV for the past 6 months and doesn't want to give it up
Kwan Wei Kevin Tan
Ford CEO Jim Farley said in a podcast interview that he'd been driving the Xiaomi SU7, an electric vehicle made by the Chinese electronics company, for the past six months. Spencer Platt via Getty Images; Costfoto/NurPhoto via Getty Images
Ford CEO Jim Farley says he's been driving the Chinese tech giant Xiaomi's EV for the past six months.
Farley described Xiaomi as an "industry juggernaut."
Farley previously told a board member that China's auto industry was an "existential threat."
Ford CEO Jim Farley says he doesn't want to give up the Xiaomi Speed Ultra 7 he's been driving for the past half year.
"I don't like talking about the competition so much, but I drive the Xiaomi," Farley said while speaking to the British presenter Robert Llewellyn on "The Fully Charged Podcast." The podcast, which Llewellyn hosts, aired on Monday.
"We flew one from Shanghai to Chicago, and I've been driving it for six months now, and I don't want to give it up," Farley continued.
The SU7 is Xiaomi's maiden electric vehicle. The Chinese tech giant produces three versions of the car: SU7, SU7 Pro, and SU7 Max. Farley didn't specify which version he was driving.
"It's fantastic. They sell 10,000, 20,000 a month. They're sold out for six months," Farley said of Xiaomi's success with the SU7 earlier in the interview.
"You know, that is an industry juggernaut and a consumer brand that is much stronger than car companies," he added.
Representatives for Farley at Ford didn't respond to a request for comment from Business Insider sent outside regular business hours.
The popularity of the SU7 has come at a cost for Xiaomi. When Xiaomi reported its second-quarter earnings on August 21, its EV branch posted an adjusted loss of $252 million.
That means Xiaomi lost about $9,200 for each of the 27,307 SU7s it shipped that quarter. The SU7 is sold at a base price of 215,900 yuan, or about $30,000, and is available only in China.
A spokesperson for Xiaomi told BI's Matthew Loh in August that the company was looking to lower its production costs by increasing the scale of its EV arm.
"In addition, Xiaomi's first EV is a pure electric sedan, and its investment cost is relatively high, so it will take some time to digest this part of the cost," the spokesperson told Loh.
Related stories
An 'existential threat'
These aren't the first comments Farley or his fellow Ford executives have made about the scale or progress of China's EV industry.
After visiting China in May, Farley told a Ford board member that China's auto industry was an "existential threat," The Wall Street Journal reported in September.
In early 2023, Farley and his chief financial officer, John Lawler, were in China when they tested out an electric SUV made by the state-owned automaker Changan Automobile, the Journal reported.
The report said the pair was impressed by the quality of the Chinese-made EVs.
"Jim, this is nothing like before," Lawler told Farley, according to the Journal. "These guys are ahead of us."
Farley's comments have come as Chinese automakers continue to dominate the global EV market. Data compiled by the technology firm ABI Research for Business Insider shows Chinese automakers accounted for 88% of the EV market in Brazil and 70% in Thailand in the first quarter of this year.
Competing with rivals such as Xiaomi will be critical for Ford as it formulates its approach to the EV market.
Ford posted a big earnings miss in the second quarter of the year, sending the company's stock tumbling. The company's earnings per share came in at $0.47, below analyst estimates of $0.68. Its profitability for the quarter was weighed down by its EV segment, which saw a $1.14 billion loss amid slowing demand. Ford's third-quarter earnings are due on October 28.
In August, Lawler told reporters that Ford was changing its EV strategy and would replace its planned electric SUVs with hybrid models instead. The move is set to cost Ford nearly $2 billion.
Ford shares are down nearly 9% year to date.
Must be nice to drive a car no other american can import....
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