Chicago Urban Prep Program: 3 years with 100% College Acceptance

[TheBigBopper]

You sound even dumber than you did in your last post. Hey guess what dumbass? You're not the only one that's graduated from a top school. Your posts reek of elitism and insecurity. I bet you were picked on when you were younger for being a black nerd so now you feel the need to trumpet your academic credentials every chance you get. No wonder you have to pay for p*ssy. I knew guys like you in undergrad and they were losers. It's sad to see that things don't change much once they graduate.

Maybe you should have taken some critical thinking classes while you were getting your fancy degree. Once again, how do you know where the bulk of these students are going? Was there a stat that I missed? 8-10? Where did you get that from? And how do you know they went to "low tier, open admissions schools?" Your post is riddles with baseless assumptions and lack of evidence. You ivy education obviously failed you.

Oh and one more thing. Getting an ivy league education is not all it's cracked out to be. Economists have tracked students with comparable mental ability and drive where one student attended an ivy league institution and the other attended a local state school and there was no statistically relevant difference in their earnings. In turns out if you have the capabilities to succeed you will do so regardless of where you go to school. Check the schools of the Fortune 500 CEOs and you'll be shocked to see the number that didn't graduate from an ivy.

In conclusion, you are a hater and a fool. We should celebrate whenever any child is able to work hard and achieve their academic goals. The fact that these are black males who are often looked down upon and stereotyped as lacking in academic ability makes this story all the better. Most children will never attend an ivy league school. And that's ok. Every shouldn't have to. But it is important for black high school to see that going to college is important and bettering yourself is both a necessity and a requirement in today's global economy. Get off your high horse.

Revisiting the Value of Elite Colleges - NYTimes.com

It’s important to note, though, that a few major groups did not fit the pattern: black students, Latino students, low-income students and students whose parents did not graduate from college. “For them, attending a more selective school increased earnings significantly,” Mr. Krueger has written. Why? Perhaps they benefit from professional connections they would not otherwise have. Perhaps they acquire habits or skills that middle-class and affluent students have already acquired in high school or at home.

What is the demographic we're discussing here?

Re: F500 CEOs--Ivies and other top 20 institutions are overrepresented. I'm not at all shocked by the number of CEOs who didn't attend these schools.

Harvard University, Columbia University, and the University of Pennsylvania topped the list—the three schools cumulatively awarded 99 degrees to the executives.

http://www.usnewsuniversitydirector...e-fortune-500-ceos-went-to-college_11262.aspx

 

[theworldismine13]

I wish I could find a link, but there was a study done looking at the net present value of a college degree by major, meaning they took lifetime career earnings of each major and discounted them to present value, minus opportunity costs and tuition. I remember a few majors, like Spanish, actually had negative present value, meaning you'd be better off going to high school and not pursuing any higher education. If I can find the article or study, I'll post it.

but thats not the point you made, you didnt say anything about majors, you said that going to second teir schools is a waste of time, this study that you refer too would prove that you are wrong, it would just prove that if one of these kids went to chico state or other second teir school public school and got a STEM degree they would graduate with hardly any debt and huge income lifetime income potential

there is no study on the planet that shows that high school graduates make more money than college graduates, you are misrepresenting the study, a negative value would not translate into its better to not just gotten a HS degree

second of all where in this article makes you infer that these kids are getting english degrees or spanish degrees? if you are simply fabricating scenarios that doesnt mean anything

third of all you and this study are discounting the cultural value and intellectual value of english or spanish degrees, having a cadre of highly educated black male with high communication skills is invaluable, its not something that a study can calculate the worth, the worth of a black male with an english degree has to be evaluated with the lack of black males with degrees, the lack of black teachers and role models and the fact that we are trying to build a black nation not just survive, so we will need black english majors

so a black male with an english degre is not valuable to you becuase you think at a very low level and in terms of food clothing and shelter, you need to move up and think terms of nation building and in more abstract intellectual terms and cultural terms

I'd also agree that going to shytty, for-profit schools and pursuing a vocational degree is a heavy debt-incurring, bad move. However, there are community colleges that offer low-cost certifications in trades. ITT and DeVry aren't the only for-profit schools around.

breh, you are confused, a community college and a public university are different sides of the same coin, they both are cheap so your argument that going to a CC is better also applies to cheap public universities like chico state

and you didnt differentiate between trade schools, the vast majority of trade schools are 5 tier and are way more expensive than public universities, this is news to me that people that go to trade schools are doing better than people that go to college, from what i see the majority of people that have huge loans that they cant pay are trade school graduates

so your argument against second tier doesn't make sense

you are wrong to recommend trade schools as an alternative to second tier schools becuase trade schools cost more or the same as second tier schools

and if you are saying go to a CC then why not just go to a second tier public university? are you saying a 6th tier CC is better than a second tier public college?

you make no sense

And sure, I suppose if one of these kids got into a low-cost state school, their debt load wouldn't be that heavy.

yeah, and that would make your advice false, it is better to go to a second tier public school then go to a trade school

Even so, getting into one of these lowly rank schools shouldn't be viewed as any real accomplishment. Anyone can get into these schools.

yeah anyone that graduated from high school with a decent GPA, but in black neighborhoods that isnt happening, people are not graduating from high school, so thats why this is a big deal

if you are saying that ivy league should be the goal then i would agree, but denigrating certain schools for not being prestigious enough is corny and suggesting that its better to go to trades schools is complete nonsense

 

[TheBigBopper]

but thats not the point you made, you didnt say anything about majors, you said that going to second teir schools is a waste of time, this study that you refer too would prove that you are wrong, it would just prove that if one of these kids went to chico state or other second teir school public school and got a STEM degree they would graduate with hardly any debt and huge income lifetime income potential

My second post: In this economy, unless you're going into engineering or something else quantitative, it's not worth going to a school outside the top 20, especially if you're black.

there is no study on the planet that shows that high school graduates make more money than college graduates, you are misrepresenting the study, a negative value would not translate into its better to not just gotten a HS degree

It is if you've paid college tuition and have low income earnings that hardly move. When you're in college, not only are you paying tuition, but you're also incurring an opportunity cost by not working full-time. That's included in the overall cost of education. People who only have a high school education don't incur these costs, which is why just being a high school grad is better than majoring in Spanish. There were other majors besides Spanish that also had negative NPV.

second of all where in this article makes you infer that these kids are getting english degrees or spanish degrees? if you are simply fabricating scenarios that doesnt mean anything

third of all you and this study are discounting the cultural value and intellectual value of english or spanish degrees, having a cadre of highly educated black male with high communication skills is invaluable, its not something that a study can calculate the worth, the worth of a black male with an english degree has to be evaluated with the lack of black males with degrees, the lack of black teachers and role models and the fact that we are trying to build a black nation not just survive, so we will need black english majors

so a black male with an english degre is not valuable to you becuase you think at a very low level and in terms of food clothing and shelter, you need to move up and think terms of nation building and in more abstract intellectual terms and cultural terms

How are we even going to get to a level where we can ponder abstract intellectual ideas if we don't even have the money to feed and clothe our children and get access to capital with which to build businesses? Leave the humanities to rich people who don't have to worry about financially supporting themselves. Blacks don't have the luxury to study anything that isn't practical.

breh, you are confused, a community college and a public university are different sides of the same coin, they both are cheap so your argument that going to a CC is better also applies to cheap public universities like chico state

and you didnt differentiate between trade schools, the vast majority of trade schools are 5 tier and are way more expensive than public universities, this is news to me that people that go to trade schools are doing better than people that go to college, from what i see the majority of people that have huge loans that they cant pay are trade school graduates

so your argument against second tier doesn't make sense

you are wrong to recommend trade schools as an alternative to second tier schools becuase trade schools cost more or the same as second tier schools

and if you are saying go to a CC then why not just go to a second tier public university? are you saying a 6th tier CC is better than a second tier public college?

you make no sense


yeah, and that would make your advice false, it is better to go to a second tier public school then go to a trade school



yeah anyone that graduated from high school with a decent GPA, but in black neighborhoods that isnt happening, people are not graduating from high school, so thats why this is a big deal

if you are saying that ivy league should be the goal then i would agree, but denigrating certain schools for not being prestigious enough is corny and suggesting that its better to go to trades schools is complete nonsense

 

[TheBigBopper]

Once again, how do you know where the bulk of these students are going? Was there a stat that I missed? 8-10?

Schools Attended by Alumni | Urban Prep Academies

Here's a list of schools alumni have attended. 99 schools are listed and about 300 kids have graduated from the academy since its first senior class in 2010.

I think a plausible case could be made that maybe a large portion of gained admission, and ultimately matriculated, into a school like say, the University of Illinois, a well-respected flagship state school. However, of the schools listed in the link above, I only see five that are in the top 20. Even if 25 kids attend each of these five schools (which is a wild estimate, these are the kind of matriculation numbers that are common at elite high schools like Stuyvesant in New York, a magnet school that only admits the top 1-2% on a standardized test) there are about 175 left going to mediocre or low tier schools by process of elimination. 8-10 kids total in elite colleges is a good estimate.

 

[TheBigBopper]

Furthermore there are marginal benefits associated with higher education aside from just the degree. People who pursue their education further for only two years, much less graduate, typically earn higher wages, are more likely to vote, more likely to live longer and be healthier, more likely to stay out of prison, less likely to be poor etc. In sum, they are more likely to be productive, contributing citizens to society.

Hardworking, moderately intelligent people experience these benefits whether they attend college or not. You're confusing the cause and effect.

 

[theworldismine13]

My second post: In this economy, unless you're going into engineering or something else quantitative, it's not worth going to a school outside the top 20, especially if you're black.

It is if you've paid college tuition and have low income earnings that hardly move. When you're in college, not only are you paying tuition, but you're also incurring an opportunity cost by not working full-time. That's included in the overall cost of education. People who only have a high school education don't incur these costs, which is why just being a high school grad is better than majoring in Spanish. There were other majors besides Spanish that also had negative NPV.

yeah you are gonna have to google this study are fall back

there are a lot of problems with your logic, how exactly is it that this wouldn't apply to trade schools also, which are generally more expensive than public universities?

and is this study comparing college degree to hs degree or is it measuring college degrees and then you are extrapolating that to mean that HS is better, in other words did this study actually study the NPV of a HS degree

and what about majors that arent engineering but still have a positive NPV, all those majors would not support your advice, so you need to post this study and not just conveniently telling us what it said

from i googled i found this

How much is a college degree worth?

NPV college costs = $150k
NPV income gain = $400k

So, what's a Bachelors degree worth? It's about a quarter of a million dollars, not too shabby.
Income and College Major

Lifetime income increase depends heavily on your college major, with this hierarchy (expressed in net present value dollars). It's interesting that college students fall down this hierarchy using the Peter Principle, changing majors until they find one that they master:
Major NPV worth
Engineering $497,930
Computer science or Info. Tech $443,180
Business $349,028
Science $283,286
Liberal arts $243,883
Social science $210,080
Education $108,461

so only education makes less than a HS, liberal arts and social sciences all have a higher NPV than HS degree

but again we need more black teachers, so im not sure what is the point of saying dont be teacher go be a welder

How are we even going to get to a level where we can ponder abstract intellectual ideas if we don't even have the money to feed and clothe our children and get access to capital with which to build businesses?

thats pretty easy, you start by creating an education system where everybody goes to college

i think you are confused, do you have an understanding that "opportunity cost" is an abstract concept, it doesnt exist for real, it has nothing to do with how much cash money a person gets every 2 weeks

at the end of the day a college degree will always make more money check to check than somebody that with a HS degree

if you want to subtract the opportunity cost to say you get a negative NPV, thats fine, thats a legit abstract economic argument

but you cant use an abstract concept like opportunity cost to say that a person wont have enough money to raise their kid, its the HS degree that wont have enough cash money to raise their kid

a lot of debt can be avoided, low income people that go to private universities often get scholarships, people like me go to the military and there is always public universities like chico state

so instead of assuming people will get debt, you should give advice on how to avoid it, which would put the NPV positive even for spanish or english majors

and stop equating opportunity cost to income, opportunity cost is abstract, income is real

Leave the humanities to rich people who don't have to worry about financially supporting themselves. Blacks don't have the luxury to study anything that isn't practical.

this is dumb and absolutely horrible advice, black students should study whatever the fuk they want regardless if its practical or not and regardless of the debt or opportunity cost

 

[TheBigBopper]

and stop equating opportunity cost to income, opportunity cost is abstract, income is real

How is this merely an abstract concept? You always give up something to pursue another action. In terms of pursuing a college degree, you really are giving up income. Instead of going to school, you could have earned $20k a year being a full-time burger flipper or cashier. This is a cost that must be accounted for. It is also necessary to include forgone income because you could have used the money to throw into index funds and gain a return on your investment. That's real money you would have had with which to raise your kid.

and is this study comparing college degree to hs degree or is it measuring college degrees and then you are extrapolating that to mean that HS is better, in other words did this study actually study the NPV of a HS degree

The former. It's an analysis of a college degree, by major, to the median high school graduate.

 

[J_rock]

Schools Attended by Alumni | Urban Prep Academies

Here's a list of schools alumni have attended. 99 schools are listed and about 300 kids have graduated from the academy since its first senior class in 2010.

I think a plausible case could be made that maybe a large portion of gained admission, and ultimately matriculated, into a school like say, the University of Illinois, a well-respected flagship state school. However, of the schools listed in the link above, I only see five that are in the top 20. Even if 25 kids attend each of these five schools (which is a wild estimate, these are the kind of matriculation numbers that are common at elite high schools like Stuyvesant in New York, a magnet school that only admits the top 1-2% on a standardized test) there are about 175 left going to mediocre or low tier schools by process of elimination. 8-10 kids total in elite colleges is a good estimate.

So anything below top 20 is mediocre or low tier? Read my earlier post. I don't care if these kids are going to a top 200 school. Any study shows that going to college, on average, increases lifetime earnings and leads to a number of external benefits. And considering where these kids are coming from it's a better alternative than where they likely would have ended up. Opportunity cost be damned. Once again, the stat you posted is irrelevant.

It’s important to note, though, that a few major groups did not fit the pattern: black students, Latino students, low-income students and students whose parents did not graduate from college. “For them, attending a more selective school increased earnings significantly,” Mr. Krueger has written. Why? Perhaps they benefit from professional connections they would not otherwise have. Perhaps they acquire habits or skills that middle-class and affluent students have already acquired in high school or at home.
What is the demographic we're discussing here?

Re: F500 CEOs--Ivies and other top 20 institutions are overrepresented. I'm not at all shocked by the number of CEOs who didn't attend these schools.

Yes they are overrepresented, but with the way you get on your knees and open your mouth at the mere mention of the ivy league, you would think that's where all the Fortune 500 CEOs came from. Open your eyes, people with ability and drive will succeed regardless of whether they went to an ivy or not. And the definition of success is not necessarily how much money they make when they graduate either.

Furthermore, if going to a top school causes talented black youth to turn into elitist pricks like you seem to be, I'd rather they go to a good state school or even an HBCU and keep some humility and perspective about them rather than go to a top institution. Even if a higher ranked institution would open more doors for them and lead to higher income, I think the cultural loss and the rise in ego it would cause are not worth the trade off.

You're a prime example of why Dubois abandoned his theory of the Talented Tenth. What he later realized is that black elites who went to top schools and later became successful were too arrogant, elitist, unemphatic and judgmental to help their less fortunate brethren. Many of them took their talents and left the communities they came from, never to return. That's more than likely what's going to happen to you.

You're still young so maybe there's time for you, but right now you come across as arrogant and insensitive. Frankly, sir, you are a c00n

 

[theworldismine13]

How is this merely an abstract concept? You always give up something to pursue another action. In terms of pursuing a college degree, you really are giving up income. Instead of going to school, you could have earned $20k a year being a full-time burger flipper or cashier. This is a cost that must be accounted for. It is also necessary to include forgone income because you could have used the money to throw into index funds and gain a return on your investment. That's real money you would have had with which to raise your kid.



The former. It's an analysis of a college degree, by major, to the median high school graduate.

My friend, for the love of god, stop it, opportunity cost is an abstract economic concept, just stop with this dumb shyt about putting money in index funds while working at burger king

 

[J_rock]

Hardworking, moderately intelligent people experience these benefits whether they attend college or not. You're confusing the cause and effect.

That's not true dumbass. Higher education is a direct cause of the benefits I listed not being hardworking or moderately intelligent. I could find numerous studies that show this but I'm too lazy and the basketbal game is going to start soon. Find them yourself. Anyways this has been fun, but I've got other stuff to do besides argue with you. I'm out.

 

[TheBigBopper]

You're still young so maybe there's time for you, but right now you come across as arrogant and insensitive. Frankly, sir, you are a c00n

I believe in tough love. I'll admit that I probably do come across as arrogant and insensitive, but it upsets me that we have such low standards for black kids. Believe me, one of the reasons why I chose my school is because it'd give me connections to the white elite that I could use to later start my own finance firm and hire our own. But I refuse to lower my standards. I also came from a low-income, single-mother household. Throughout my teens, my mom really didn't give a damn about me, but as I grew older, I adopted a high standard for myself. I think this is key to success for blacks in America.

 

[Since '86]

Somebody posted something positive about Chicago?

 

[TheBigBopper]

My friend, for the love of god, stop it, opportunity cost is an abstract economic concept, just stop with this dumb shyt about putting money in index funds while working at burger king

I did it as a high schooler scooping ice cream and paid for my first year of college that way . I didn't use index funds though---I used high beta American and Chinese stocks

 

[theworldismine13]

I did it as a high schooler scooping ice cream and paid for my first year of college that way . I didn't use index funds though---I used high beta American and Chinese stocks

I'm not saying it can't be done, I'm saying you can't use that as an argument to say that opportunity cost is not an abstract economic concept

In terms of cash money a person with a college degree will make more cash money than a person with a hs degree, so dont come with that npv, opportunity cost when you are talking about money to raise kids

 

[jwinfield]

An article about a school for minority lower income kids sending 100% of its students to college turned into bashing because they all weren't going to top 20 schools?