Centrist House Dems allying with Big Pharma

FAH1223

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@Kenny West @Rhakim @FAH1223

Man stop with the sensationalist headline of "the government funds drug development costs"

Y'all do know that there are literally levels to this shyt, right? Drug development occurs in three phases: exploratory, mid-level, and late stage. The "government funding" that y'all allude to is provided primarily at the exploratory level...which happens to be the least expensive and least risky research level. Mid-stage and late-stage research is much more risky and costly and is primarily funded by the pharmaceutical companies themselves and venture capitalists.

The average cost of developing a new drug is roughly $1 billion - the government is not providing all that funding. Again they are primarily involved at the early, low risk, low cost stage.

And yall know that I come with receipts: Current Model for Financing Drug Development: From Concept Through Approval - Breakthrough Business Models - NCBI Bookshelf

And we are just discussing the development costs...let's get into production cost. Is the government funding the raw material costs, direct and indirect labor costs, marketing, employee pensions, and energy costs that are required to manufacture and distribute drugs???

We are talking about that.

In the link I put

-The combined total revenue for all 13 companies over 8 years was about $3.78 Trillion.

-The Combined total profits for these companies was about $744 Billion.

-All 13 pharmaceutical companies spent a total of $643 Billion on research

-The total amount they spent on marketing was about 60% more than what they spent on research: $1.04 Trillion.

Financial Risk and the End of an Era
Almost two decades have passed since then. The protease inhibitors were among the last of the truly revolutionary classes of medications to come from the pharmaceutical industry. Since then, almost all new medications have been variations of old medications with a slight improvement (if even that) or a new indication. Few new classes of medications, almost no medical miracles, nothing that has significantly changed the way we practice medicine has come from the pharmaceutical industry since the late nineties.

So how is it that an industry that gave us so many revolutionary, life saving wonder drugs in decades past is now reduced to peddling gimmicks and repeatedly recycling old ideas?

The “golden age of the pharmaceutical industry” was drawing to a close as early as 1990 when the pharmaceutical companies began to tire of new ideas. New ideas are always expensive and risky. Even the most brilliant sounding ideas often go nowhere when tested clinically.

This innovation fatigue had become so serious by the early 1990’s that Herceptin, the monoclonal antibody that first cured metastatic breast cancer, almost didn’t even get tested. In his book “The Emperor of All Maladies,” Siddhartha Mukherjee describes the difficulty Genentech scientists had convincing their executives to fund the testing of Herceptin after it had already been developed in 1990:

“… but Genentech was worried that pouring money into the development of another drug that failed would cripple the company’s finances. Chastened by the experience of others–”allergic to cancer” as one Genentech researcher described it– Genentech pulled funding away from most of its cancer projects.” (Page 418)

Herceptin had already been developed, but Genentech executives didn’t care. Testing to see if it worked risked wasting money and these executives were becoming very risk averse. Genentech executives weren’t alone in their risk aversion either. From 1995-1997 Novartis executives tried equally hard to kill Gleevec– another miracle drug that suppresses a deadly form of leukemia indefinitely–because they feared that the trials needed to clear Gleevec would cost too much (Page 436).

Fortunately, both Gleevec and Herceptin got the funding they needed and have provided billions of dollars in revenue to the pharmaceutical companies that tried to kill them. They were among the last new ideas to get funding from the drug companies though. By the time Gleevec came on the market in 2000 the door had mostly shut on novel pharmaceutical research.

By 1990 the pharmaceutical industry knew they already had a lot of very effective products that were making them lots of money each year. They had patents that were generating billions of dollars a year and would continue to do so for many years to come. They also knew they could probably find a number of new uses for the classes of medications they already had. The most profitable course they saw at that point was to just coast; put no more funding into new foundational research and just keep pushing what was already working for them. That’s exactly what they did, and it worked!

The profits made by the pharmaceutical companies exploded over the last decade without them putting out any new products that were even remotely innovative. But that strategy can only work for a little while. Two decades after they shut the door on actual innovation the revenue from the old ideas is starting to run dry.


Figure 4: (From linked article above.) New medications released each successive year since 2001 by the pharmaceutical companies have been increasingly less popular.

So, we in the U.S. continue to overpay for brand name prescription medications, but the pharmaceutical industry has given us almost no new important therapies in more than 15 years. A somewhat unexpected result of this is that, total pharmaceutical revenue has been nearly flat since 2010.
PharmaRev2018.png

Figure 5: Total annual revenue for the 13 largest pharmaceutical companies since 2010.

You can see from the above graph that the total revenue from the thirteen largest pharmaceutical companies has barely increased at all since 2010. It has actually dropped slightly since 2011 despite a more than 50% increase in the cost of brand name prescription drugs in the US since 2012.

What changed? A flood of Generic drugs came on the market.

Because there really is a market for generic drugs, we don’t pay any more for most generics than people in other countries. In 2003, most of the medications prescribed were still under patent. Today, the opposite is true. The effect is easy to see in the following graph, which shows the dramatic loss of revenue when the patent Bristol-Myers Squibb owned on Plavix expired.
Diovan2018.png

Figure 6: Novartis lost their patent for Diovan in 2012 and, as you can see, that has cost them about $5 billion a year in lost revenue.

Profit Without Innovation
The pharmaceutical companies haven’t been taking all of these patent losses lying down. They’ve instituted a number of measures to help offset the amount they’ve been losing to lost patent protection:

1) They’ve fought very hard, and in every way they can, to delay the expiration of drug exclusivity whenever possible. This process is called “evergreening” a patent. For example, they can apply for a new indication for an old drug just prior to it’s patent expiration. They can change the delivery system for, say, an inhaler. They can alter the recommended doses of a drug by a small amount– they have a lot of tricks for maintaining exclusivity and these tricks can often delay generic competition for several years.

2) In 2013 the pharmaceutical companies got the US Supreme Court to allow them to pay generic drug makers to delay the release of generic equivalents of medications for a time after the patent for a medication expires.

3) Pharmaceutical companies pay an enormous amount of money each year to suppliers and pharmacy benefit managers (PBMs) in rebates and chargebacks. The rebates and chargebacks paid by the 13 biggest pharmaceutical companies totaled $150 billion in 2017 alone. That’s more than twice as much as these companies paid in rebates and chargebacks in 2011. These financial incentives encourage the PBMs to approve more expensive medications when determining prescription drug coverage for their policy holders. Rather than trying to contain the cost of prescription drugs, the PBMs are encouraged to cover medications that yield higher rebates.

4) They’ve raised the prices on all of their medications sold in the U.S. substantially in the last few years. The following table clearly shows this pattern:

Medication and Dose Indication October 2012 Price July 2018 Price Price Increase
Abilify 20 mg Depression $26.35 per pill $40.40 per pill 54%
Advair 250/50 Asthma $3.97 per inhalation $6.28 per inhalation 58%
Benicar 40 mg Blood Pressure $4.26 per pill $9.35 per pill 119%
Byetta 10 mcg Diabetes $128.58 per dose pen $283.34 per dose pen 120%
Cialis 20 mg Antique
Bathtub Sex $23.64 per pill $64.05 per pill 171%
Crestor 20 mg Cholesterol $4.99 per pill $8.35 per pill 67%
Diovan 160 mg Blood Pressure $3.43 per pill $7.64 per pill 123%
Effient 10 mg Heart Disease $6.80 per pill $14.68 per pill 116%
Geodon 60 mg Psychosis $9.85 per capsule $24.67 per capsule 150%
Gleevec 400 mg Leukemia $189.91 per pill $328.10 per pill 73%
Januvia 50 mg Diabetes $7.30 per pill $13.75 per pill 88%
Lyrica 50 mg Pain $3.00 per capsule $7.43 per capsule 148%
Pristiq ER 50 mg Depression $4.84 per pill $12.18 per pill 152%
Vytorin 10/40 Cholesterol $4.70 per pill $10.92 per pill 132%
Xarelto 20 mg Atrial Fibrillation $7.59 per pill $13.44 per pill 77%


Table 3 shows the average (NADAC) price pharmacies paid for 15 medications. It shows the average cost for these medications in October 2012compared to the average cost for the same medications in July 2018. In just 6 years most of the listed medications rose an average of more than 100% in price. These price increases have continued for each of these medications in spite of the fact that 9 of these 15 medications have lost there patents in recent years.

The primary purpose os these price increases is to fund the rebates cited in point 3. In other words, much of the money spent on these high drug prices goes, not to the pharmaceutical companies, but rather to pay of the middlemen (PBMs and suppliers) who are in charge of choosing which prescription drugs are covered by your insurance.

These techniques the pharmaceutical companies are using to cut their losses generally provide no new therapeutic benefit—they just renew their ability to demand very high prices (at least in the U.S.).
 

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Man this is fake news, it has nothing to do with rich vs poor. Their primary focus is on developing drugs for diseases that affect a greater percentage of the population. If there are more folks affected by a disease, there are more folks buying the drug thus a greater return on investment...

Focusing on drugs that are solely for the rich is not a sound strategy given the development and manufacturing costs...

Hmmm....

@FAH1223 already laid down the law regarding how little is really spent on R&D and how much more is spent on marketing. So I'll take on the question of who drug companies develop drugs for.

From Dr. Manica Balasegaram, a researcher with the Médecins Sans Frontières

The past month has seen the reputation of Big Pharma dented more than usual. The CEO of German pharmaceutical company Bayer, Marijn Dekkers, was reported as saying that the company didn’t develop a cancer drug for the Indian market, but rather “for Western patients who can afford it”. The comment summed up the attitude of the pharmaceutical companies towards the poor and succinctly described what is wrong with today’s research and development (R&D) system.

In a similar vein, last month British/Swedish pharma company AstraZeneca announced it was pulling out of all early-stage R&D for malaria, tuberculosis (TB) and neglected tropical diseases – all diseases of the developing world. Instead, the company stated they will focus efforts on drugs for cancer, diabetes and high blood pressure, all diseases that affect rich countries, with potentially plenty of people to pay the high prices on new drugs....

This trend is not new. Pfizer stopped R&D into all anti-infective drugs in 2012; in the same year, barely a third of the estimated funding needed for TB drug development was met. The need for new TB drugs and new regimens to treat TB – especially drug-resistant forms of TB – is increasing worldwide, including in some parts of Europe and countries such as South Africa and India.

The lack of R&D for new drugs doesn’t only affect developing countries; wealthy countries are also faced with a huge gap in medical innovation. With the numbers of cases of antibiotic resistance on the rise in many parts of the world – including in western hospitals – there are, worryingly, few new antibiotics being developed. We are fast approaching the point, if we’re not there already, where people will develop infections that are resistant to all existing antibiotics, and we’ll have nothing effective with which to treat them.

The problem is simply this: pharmaceutical companies like Pfizer, AstraZeneca and Bayer lack the incentives to develop drugs like antibiotics that are only taken for a short period of time, or against diseases that primarily affect the poor. With an obligation to shareholders, pharma companies develop those drugs that will most enable them to achieve high sales in targeted lucrative markets. Typically, these drugs are for diseases that affect mostly people in wealthy countries who can afford – for the most part – to pay the high prices that come with a R&D system which relies on patent monopolies to recoup costs.

Increasingly, we’re seeing not only the unavailability of drugs for medical needs, but also unaffordability when drugs are priced out of the reach of most people. The drugs that are developed today are priced so highly that even people in the USA, UK and the EU – the very markets that Big Pharma are targeting – are unable to afford price tags such as US$84,000 for the new hepatitis C drug sofosbuvir, or cancer drugs priced at over $100,000. We have to ask ourselves – if the drugs being developed are priced so highly that no-one can afford them, is society actually benefiting?

The pharmaceutical industry’s response to criticism over high prices is that it costs a lot to develop these drugs. While this is undoubtedly true, there are two important points of clarification: first, a lot of the R&D behind successful new drugs is heavily subsidised by the tax payer – globally, about half of all R&D is paid for from the public purse and by philanthropic organisations. In effect, we’re paying twice for new drugs. Secondly, there is a lack of transparency from the pharmaceutical industry- so we don’t really know how much it costs, and how much this can vary.

The industry often throws around the figure of $1 billion as the cost. Yet this figure is often questioned, even by one of their own; last year, GSK’s Sir Andrew Witty called the $1 billion figure “a myth”. Other organisations have proved that it’s possible to develop new drugs for significantly less than $1 billion, and have no patents or high prices attached. For example, a non-profit public-private partnership used up-front funding to develop an artemisinin-based combination therapy for malaria, which has no patent, is priced at less than US$1 and has seen over 250 million treatments used in 31 African countries. Private-public partnership Drugs for Neglected Diseases initiative has estimated that development of a new chemical entity can cost as little as $50 million per successfully developed drug; with attrition and failure rates taken into account, it’s still as little as $200 million.



Dr. Marcia Angell of the Harvard School of Medicine wrote a 10-page version of the same thing here. Basically, big pharma is producing very few legitimately groundbreaking drugs anymore, they're mostly just putting out slightly different and often unimproved versions of old drugs, solely so they can bring a new patent in before their drug converts to generics.

The Truth About the Drug Companies



A second issue is that there's a specific act in Congress that rewards companies for pursuing cures for rare diseases, random shyt that even the occasional rich person is subjected to. But the issue is that the vast majority of poor people don't suffer from the rare diseases, they suffer from the COMMON ones. And their diseases are neglected cause some random rich guy might have an issue. One Michael J Fox with a rare problem will outweigh the voices of thousands of poor people with common problems.

One of the most compelling examples of how profit incentives can distort drug development has its roots, oddly, in the popular television series Quincy, M E (1976-1983). In an episode that aired on 4 March 1981, the well-known American actor Jack Klugman played a gritty Los Angeles medical examiner investigating the suicide of a boy with Tourette’s syndrome, a neurological disease that causes uncontrollable tics and verbal outbursts. On the show, Congressional hearings took place to investigate why no drugs were available for the disease. Mock representatives from the pharmaceutical industry explained that many diseases, including Tourette’s, were thought to be sufficiently rare that there was no financial incentive to develop medications.

The episode struck a national cord, and Klugman was invited to testify before a real Congressional panel investigating the same issue – non-existent treatments for rare or ‘orphan’ diseases. The New York Times featured Klugman’s testimony. Public opinion rallied, and Congress passed the Orphan Drug Act in 1982.

The bill provided incentives for the pharmaceutical industry to develop treatments for rare diseases, including large subsidies for development costs, accelerated regulatory approval, and seven years of market exclusivity – a temporary monopoly. The bill has largely been considered a success. Before its passage, only 10 drugs existed for orphan diseases; by 2014, that number had grown to more than 450.

By other measures, though, the Orphan Drug Act has been too successful. The Act’s incentives, coupled with the fact that pharmaceutical companies can set any price they like for a drug in the US, have made the orphan market astonishingly profitable. A leukaemia drug called Gleevec became one of the first orphan blockbusters when it debuted in 2001 for an unprecedented $26,400 per year, demonstrating just how lucrative orphan drugs could be. Today, Gleevec sells for nearly $150,000 per year, with total sales approaching $5 billion. But it’s not even among the 10 most expensive orphan drugs, many of which sell for over $500,000 per year. An analysis by Thomson Reuters found that the ‘economics and investment case for orphan drug development’ was ‘more favorable than for non-orphan drugs’. Put another way, pharmaceutical companies make way more money creating orphan drugs than they would in developing better treatments for more common maladies.

Orphan drugs illustrate how financial incentives distort the development of treatments in ways that don’t always provide the greatest benefit

Industry has got the message. By 2010, 30 per cent of new drug approvals by the FDA were for orphan drugs, even though all orphan diseases together affect only about 10 per cent of the population. Sales for orphan drugs were similarly disproportionate, accounting for more than 13 per cent of all drug sales in 2012. As a result, the market for orphan drugs is projected to grow at double the rate of the overall prescription drug market through 2022.

Kenneth Kaitin, director of the Tufts Center for the Study of Drug Development, thinks this is a serious problem. ‘Human disease around the world isn’t a collection of rare diseases,’ he told me. ‘It’s a collection of common diseases – cardiovascular disease, obesity, diabetes. And right now the market is pushing [industry] into these rare diseases, and away from much more common problems that affect many more people.’

As a result, Kaitin says fewer resources are being invested in new treatments for these common problems. He cites cardiovascular disease as an example, where research into new therapeutics has lost momentum in recent years even as cardiovascular disease remains a leading cause of death. Tropical infectious diseases have long suffered from a lack of financial incentive in the development of treatments. Antibiotics are another example – despite urgent need for novel antibiotics due to increasing resistance, few companies are interested because they don’t see the potential for large profits. This is leading us toward a ‘huge crisis in the near future’, according to Kaitin.
 

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Here's a great example of the lifespan of an actually useful drug:


Step 1: University researchers in the USA and Germany develop a groundbreaking new technique to replicate Hepatitis C virus in the lab. This finally gives drug researchers the ability to look into cures for Hepatitis C.

Step 2: Two university researchers start their own biotech firm, Pharmasset, to develop drugs based on the new research breakthroughs. Despite relatively small resources compared to Big Pharma, they are able to create a drug called Sovaldi that can treat Hepatitis C. They project a price point for Sovaldi of $36,000/year.

Step 3: Gilead Sciences, a Big Pharma company that pulled in profits of over $5 billion last year, buys out Pharmasset for $11 billion. They have their investment bankers analyze Sovaldi and based on their advice up the price to $84,000/year.

Notice that step - by Big Pharma buying out the smaller biotech firm, the price point of the drug MORE THAN DOUBLED. How can you justify that?

Step 4: Two years later the drug is approved for market as Harvoni and sales go through the roof. Gilead Sciences brings in $14 billion in revenue from Sovaldi in the 2nd year alone. However, the drug almost works too good - because cure rates are well over 90%, soon there are far fewer people with Hepatitis C. By year 5 its sales have dropped to $4 billion.

Step 5: Goldman Sachs releases a private report using Harvoni as a case study and advises avoiding investments in companies looking to develop outright cures, as actually curing diseases doesn't bring long-term profits.



Now, is it that hard to see why a lot of people think of Big Pharma as evil?

This article by doctor at Massachusetts General Hospital mentions the Harvoni story and is also the source of the first excerpt I posted above. Later in the article it gets into how our system incentivizes drug development for every disease, rather than focusing on lifestyle changes, healthier eating, reducing environmental pollutants, etc., even though those things might have a bigger effect.

Will medicine ever recover from the perverse economics of drugs? | Aeon Essays
 

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@levitate , the issue with trusting Big Pharma's marketing rather than your doctor is that the trillion dollars that Big Pharma is spending on marketing each year is a bunch of bullshyt, it's not education. Like practically all advertizing, they're distorting the truth to make you think you "need" the new drug when in fact the old drug is just as good and 10x cheaper. They ain't gonna tell you that the sole reason they developed the new drug was because the patent on the old one ran out. They're gonna lie.

If you want to be informed, don't rely on Big Pharma's bullshyt television ads.



I feel what you're saying.

But as a patient, I'd like to know what options are out there considering subconscious bias and the fact that white doctors are less likely to perscribe medication to black patients: Your Doctor Might Believe Disturbing Stuff About Black Patients
I mean that's racist af, but since the whole article is about doctors giving black people fewer pain meds and opioids it actually might be a net positive. :yeshrug:

Dem fools saved all the good shyt for the White people and look what happened to them. :ufdup:

Not that you should always trust you doctor when they prescribe....cause Big Pharma might even be bribing your doctor.

Here's another devestating article covering some of the same info that @FAH1223 already covered. I'll just put in the part about misleading information.

Pharma industry gets high on profits

Courting doctors
But drug companies have been accused of, and admitted to, far worse.

Until recently, paying bribes to doctors to prescribe their drugs was commonplace at big pharmas, although the practice is now generally frowned upon and illegal in many places. GSK was fined $490m in China in September for bribery and has been accused of similar practices in Poland and the Middle East.

The rules on gifts, educational grants and sponsoring lectures, for example, are less clear cut, and these practices remain commonplace in the US.

Indeed a recent study found that doctors in the US receiving payments from pharma companies were twice as likely to prescribe their drugs.

This may well exacerbate the problem of overspending on drugs by governments. A recent study by Prescribing Analytics suggested that the UK's National Health Service could save up to £1bn a year by doctors switching from branded to equally effective generic versions of the drugs.
Big pharmaceutical fines

$3bn Glaxo SmithKline, 2012, over promoting Paxil for depression to under-18s

$2.3bn Pfizer, 2009, over misbranding painkiller Bextra

$2.2bn Johnson & Johnson, 2013, for promoting drugs not approved as safe

$1.5bn Abbott, 2012, over illegal promotion of antipsychotic drug Depakote

$1.42bn Eli Lilley, 2009, for wrongly promoting antipsychotic drug Zyprexa

$950m Merck, 2011, for illegally promoting painkiller Vioxx

Source: ProPublica
This all may change when new rules in the US and UK will force doctors to disclose all gifts and payments made by the industry.

Drug companies have also been accused of colluding with chemists to overcharge for their medicines and of publishing trial data that highlight the positive at the expense of the negative.

They have also been found guilty of mis-branding and wrongly promoting various drugs, and have been fined billions as a result.

The rewards are so great, it would seem, that pharma companies have continually been prepared to push the boundaries of legality.

'Undue influence'
No wonder, then, that the World Health Organisation (WHO) has talked of the "inherent conflict" between the legitimate business goals of the drug companies and the medical and social needs of the wider public.

Indeed the Council of Europe is launching an investigation into "protecting patients and public health against the undue influence of the pharmaceutical industry".

It will look at "particular practices such as sponsoring health professionals by the industry... or recourse by public health institutions to the knowledge of highly specialised researchers on the pay-rolls of industry".
 
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@Rhakim Ive seen this commercial all year on cable. Reminded me of this thread



Wait, are they trading in clearer skin for completely demolishing your immune system and making you more vulnerable to any infection whatsoever? :picard:

I'm imagining the levels to that....the amount of money (including public money) spent researching a drug for clearer skin, the amount of advertising dollars spent to convince people they need a drug for clearer skin, the amount of public health care money that will cover people buying a clearer skin drug, the number of brilliant medical researchers who spent their time and energy developing a drug for clearer skin that ACTUALLY MAKES YOUR HEALTH WORSE rather than developing drugs to help the people who are really suffering...
 
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We are talking about that.

In the link I put

-The combined total revenue for all 13 companies over 8 years was about $3.78 Trillion.

-The Combined total profits for these companies was about $744 Billion.

-All 13 pharmaceutical companies spent a total of $643 Billion on research

-The total amount they spent on marketing was about 60% more than what they spent on research: $1.04 Trillion.

Man, @FAH1223 laid a straight Katie Porter Whiteboard Ether on them right there.
 

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Wait, are they trading in clearer skin for completely demolishing your immune system and making you more vulnerable to any infection whatsoever? :picard:

I'm imagining the levels to that....the amount of money (including public money) spent researching a drug for clearer skin, the amount of advertising dollars spent to convince people they need a drug for clearer skin, the amount of public health care money that will cover people buying a clearer skin drug, the number of brilliant medical researchers who spent their time and energy developing a drug for clearer skin that ACTUALLY MAKES YOUR HEALTH WORSE rather than developing drugs to help the people who are really suffering...

I sent this to some female friends and all of a sudden they're showing ads for eye lashes drugs :gucci: same type of side effects, infections, etc
 
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