Capitalism is the root cause of bad mental health.

UpAndComing

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This makes no sense at all. Practically all the white societal forces out there ENCOURAGE black people to seek wealth to the point that it's a religion. All the advertising, all the media, all the corporate world, all the educational world....even the churches have become pro-capitalist. Pro-capitalism has been a religion in the USA for over 100 years, to the point where Black men who advocated for anything else (including the one in my avi) were put onto a watchlist, tracked, harassed, even killed. What world are you even talking about?



Now you're playing dumb

White people's greatest weapons are Media, Propaganda, and the Educational system. They are used to control a narrative. The thought of a "Capitalist" in the eyes of the media are greedy bloodsuckers who are out for themselves and hate poor people. The media does a great job with movies or TV shows to paint someone looking to acquire wealth as "pretentious", "cunning", or "ruthless"

The greatest example has been the College campuses where they groom young adults with Socialist dogma and that "Capitalism is Evil". The overwhelming majority of College professors are of a Socialist or Radical Left leaning background, and that you can not refute

On top of the K-12 educational system teaching Black children that the reason for the destruction of the Black Race is solely because of Capitalism. Combined with the suppression of teaching Black kids successful Black Capitalists in the 1800s and early 1900s. That our history is Slavery, Jim Crow, and Martin Luther King

"Pro-Capitalism been a religion for 100 years" shows your disingenuous faulty argument. "Pro Capitalism" has only been a media sensation since the Reagan era in the 1980s. And even then they paint Capitalism with evil characters such as Gordon Gecko in the movie Wall Street
 

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What's your alternative? Socialism? Communism? Who owns most of society's assets?


Ignore communism - that's a dumb 19th-century philosophy that still built around power. People always talk ignorant as if communism is the only alternative when it's even newer than capitalism is and still ends up feeding the same power disaparities.

Yes, some form of socialism, but socialism can mean a billion things. I prefer libertarian socialism where the rules of the system are set so that power and wealth consistently equalize over time, rather than being hoarded over time, and thus you don't need any one person or organization to "own" the shyt, you just need a limited government to keep the rules enforced and the rest works itself out.


I'll give some examples:

1. You read the Old Testament and you'll see that profiting on interest from anyone other than your enemies was BANNED. You weren't allowed to profit off charging interest to fellow Israelites, you weren't allowed to profit off of charging interest to the poor, you weren't allowed to profit off of charging interest to anyone in need of basic goods. That ain't just a Jewish thing - the Christian church said interest was evil for most of its history, Muslims still say interest is evil, Buddhists said interest was evil, even Greek and Roman philosophers said interest was evil. It's plain as fukk that interest is a way for people with money to exploit poor people, and everyone saw there was naturally something wrong with that. But now it's accepted because we worship capitalism.

There is a TON of other things wrong with interest, like the fact that it encourages constant economic growth and cutthroat mentality, constant competition, constant overexploitation of resources, because with interest you are forced to always provide more than you have because the interest means you have to pay back more than you got. It doesn't just exploit the poor, it fukks up the WHOLE system and keeps any equilibrium from ever being reached. There are entire books on the subject.

So how do yo address that? Well first, ban interest, full stop. But how do you get people to still loan money to those in need if they're not going to profit off of it? In religious systems like Christianity, you just made it a religious requirement to lend to the poor. But without a religious component, what you can instead do is set negative interest rates. Basically, any money that is hoarded slowly loses worth over time. Any cash that is old slowly loses value over time. Thus you have a huge incentive to loan out your money, rather than hoarding it, and all you ask for is the same # back or even less because at least that's better than losing what you're saving altogether.



2. Businesses collectively owned by all the employees, rather than just the business owner. Decisions are made by the worker collective, not just by the boss. When the business prospers, every prospers accordingly.



3. UBI, so everyone in society has the bare basics they need and you can't blackmail someone to do something due to their lack of basic needs.



4. Separate education, health care, and political power from money. Those basic societal services should not be tied to what you can afford.





That's just a start, I could keep going on for a while. But you get the idea. Like I said, there are books on this shyt if you're interested, and plenty with strong historical backing.
 

Will Ross

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Ignore communism - that's a dumb 19th-century philosophy that still built around power. People always talk ignorant as if communism is the only alternative when it's even newer than capitalism is and still ends up feeding the same power disaparities.

Yes, some form of socialism, but socialism can mean a billion things. I prefer libertarian socialism where the rules of the system are set so that power and wealth consistently equalize over time, rather than being hoarded over time, and thus you don't need any one person or organization to "own" the shyt, you just need a limited government to keep the rules enforced and the rest works itself out.


I'll give some examples:

1. You read the Old Testament and you'll see that profiting on interest from anyone other than your enemies was BANNED. You weren't allowed to profit off charging interest to fellow Israelites, you weren't allowed to profit off of charging interest to the poor, you weren't allowed to profit off of charging interest to anyone in need of basic goods. That ain't just a Jewish thing - the Christian church said interest was evil for most of its history, Muslims still say interest is evil, Buddhists said interest was evil, even Greek and Roman philosophers said interest was evil. It's plain as fukk that interest is a way for people with money to exploit poor people, and everyone saw there was naturally something wrong with that. But now it's accepted because we worship capitalism.

There is a TON of other things wrong with interest, like the fact that it encourages constant economic growth and cutthroat mentality, constant competition, constant overexploitation of resources, because with interest you are forced to always provide more than you have because the interest means you have to pay back more than you got. It doesn't just exploit the poor, it fukks up the WHOLE system and keeps any equilibrium from ever being reached. There are entire books on the subject.

So how do yo address that? Well first, ban interest, full stop. But how do you get people to still loan money to those in need if they're not going to profit off of it? In religious systems like Christianity, you just made it a religious requirement to lend to the poor. But without a religious component, what you can instead do is set negative interest rates. Basically, any money that is hoarded slowly loses worth over time. Any cash that is old slowly loses value over time. Thus you have a huge incentive to loan out your money, rather than hoarding it, and all you ask for is the same # back or even less because at least that's better than losing what you're saving altogether.



2. Businesses collectively owned by all the employees, rather than just the business owner. Decisions are made by the worker collective, not just by the boss. When the business prospers, every prospers accordingly.



3. UBI, so everyone in society has the bare basics they need and you can't blackmail someone to do something due to their lack of basic needs.



4. Separate education, health care, and political power from money. Those basic societal services should not be tied to what you can afford.





That's just a start, I could keep going on for a while. But you get the idea. Like I said, there are books on this shyt if you're interested, and plenty with strong historical backing.


You can’t be serious human nature won’t allow socialism to work.
 

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Now you're playing dumb

White people's greatest weapons are Media, Propaganda, and the Educational system. They are used to control a narrative. The thought of a "Capitalist" in the eyes of the media are greedy bloodsuckers who are out for themselves and hate poor people. The media does a great job with movies or TV shows to paint someone looking to acquire wealth as "pretentious", "cunning", or "ruthless"

The greatest example has been the College campuses where they groom young adults with Socialist dogma and that "Capitalism is Evil". The overwhelming majority of College professors are of a Socialist or Radical Left leaning background, and that you can not refute

On top of the K-12 educational system teaching Black children that the reason for the destruction of the Black Race is solely because of Capitalism. Combined with the suppression of teaching Black kids successful Black Capitalists in the 1800s and early 1900s. That our history is Slavery, Jim Crow, and Martin Luther King

"Pro-Capitalism been a religion for 100 years" shows your disingenuous faulty argument. "Pro Capitalism" has only been a media sensation since the Reagan era in the 1980s. And even then they paint Capitalism with evil characters such as Gordon Gecko in the movie Wall Street


Your education failed the fukk out of you breh. Portraying everything on Earth as an existential crisis between Capitalism and Socialism/Communism was literally the driving political, educational, and media narrative of the entire 20th century in America. You seriously said, "Only since the Reagan era"??????



So you don't realize that Communists were regularly arrested and sometimes even executed in the early 1900s.

So you don't realize that numerous civil rights leaders including Martin Luther King Jr., Angela Davis, Paul Robeson, and almost every freedom fighter in Africa was demonized and attempted to be destroyed due to their associations with socialism.

So you don't know that the entire rivalry between USA and USSR was portrayed as a global battle between capitalism and communism and everything from cartoons to news stations to war movies doubled down on that narrative.

So you don't realize that nearly all the foreign policy fukking around we did in Africa, Latin America, the Middle East, Asia, and Europe was with the explicit goal of increasing capitalism, and that's why we did everything from fighting grass roots socialist movements in Africa and Central America to installing the Shah in Iran to opposing Castro in Cuba to fighting the Korean and Vietnam wars.

So you don't realize that the ENTIRE drive of advertising is to teach us to buy more, buy more, make it bigger, get more, get more, make more, make more, and drive us into the pro-capitalism rat race to fulfill the "American Dream".




If you seriously don't see that, I don't know what to say to you. Step out of yourself for a moment and have a conversation with anyone with a good grasp of history or society, let them start educating you on how pervasive the pro-materialism and anti-socialism narrative has been.
 

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You can’t be serious human nature won’t allow socialism to work.


Yes, right-wingers say that constantly, it's a religous mantra for y'all....but then you fail to explain why the entire force of the US military and economy had to constantly be put forth to stomp out socialism wherever it emerged, if it was just going to fail anyway.


If socialism was just going to fail on its own, then why use violence to dispose Mosaddegh and install the Shah into power? Why use violence to crush every Central American socialist movement in favor of hypercapitalist terrorists like the Contra? Why use the US military to crush even peaceful socialist governments like Prince Sihanouk in Cambodia? Why the need to constantly demonize every Black socialist in existence in both America and Africa? Why the need for massive sanctions to try to shut off goods to Cuba and every other socialist nation?


Capitalism isn't the least bit more naturally "human" than socialism. If you look at early human societies, anything at the tribal level, they look WAY more socialist than they do capitalist. If you look at early human religions, they're all WAY more socialist than capitalist. If you look at early human philosophies, they are FAR more in support of socialism than they are in support of capitalism.


Capitalism only dominates with the constant work of the wealthy and their economic and military power to keep it in place. If the wealthy didn't control access to weath, resources, and violent power, they would never be able to maintain capitalism like they do. Just read some history and you'll see how clearly capitalists work to desperately stomp out any hint of socialism anywhere it emerges.
 

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Your education failed the fukk out of you breh. Portraying everything on Earth as an existential crisis between Capitalism and Socialism/Communism was literally the driving political, educational, and media narrative of the entire 20th century in America. You seriously said, "Only since the Reagan era"??????



So you don't realize that Communists were regularly arrested and sometimes even executed in the early 1900s.

So you don't realize that numerous civil rights leaders including Martin Luther King Jr., Angela Davis, Paul Robeson, and almost every freedom fighter in Africa was demonized and attempted to be destroyed due to their associations with socialism.

So you don't know that the entire rivalry between USA and USSR was portrayed as a global battle between capitalism and communism and everything from cartoons to news stations to war movies doubled down on that narrative.

So you don't realize that nearly all the foreign policy fukking around we did in Africa, Latin America, the Middle East, Asia, and Europe was with the explicit goal of increasing capitalism, and that's why we did everything from fighting grass roots socialist movements in Africa and Central America to installing the Shah in Iran to opposing Castro in Cuba to fighting the Korean and Vietnam wars.

So you don't realize that the ENTIRE drive of advertising is to teach us to buy more, buy more, make it bigger, get more, get more, make more, make more, and drive us into the pro-capitalism rat race to fulfill the "American Dream".




If you seriously don't see that, I don't know what to say to you. Step out of yourself for a moment and have a conversation with anyone with a good grasp of history or society, let them start educating you on how pervasive the pro-materialism and anti-socialism narrative has been.


Yeah you're clueless on this subject

Making illogical correlations left and right. Jeezus Christ :russ:


1. Being Anti-Communism =/= Pro Capitalism
Anti Communism was a Pro Nationalist stance during times of War. Pro Nationalist aka pro Country. Communism was seen as a representation of the countries the US was against at the time. Russia, China, Cuba, etc etc were all WW2, Cold War, Korean War, Vietnam War adversaries at the time, and the country were terrified of infiltrators who were on American soil. So any organization that was deemed to be a threat against the US Government was sniffed out and taken down. Nothing to do with competing economic systems


2. Being a part of Consumerist Culture =/= Capitalism... Lets define what a Capitalist is

capitalist

"capitalist
noun [ C ] POLITICS
US /ˈkæp.ə.t̬əl.ɪst/ UK /ˈkæp.ɪ.təl.ɪst/


someone who supports capitalism. An economic and political system in which property, business, and industry are controlled by private owners rather than by the state, with the purpose of making a profit):

someone who has a large amount of money invested (= given hoping to get more back) in business"



To be a Capitalist is to partake in the market as a private owner of a business or partake in investments hoping to get a return. They are not consumers. Consumers are their customers


3. Your words you said "the last 100 years of being Pro Capitalism"

- 100 years ago was 1922. Hmmm that seems like 7 years before the Great Depression
Media and Public perception was that the cause of the Great Depression was Capitalism and that "Free Markets are evil". Where was the Pro-Capitalism then?

- The New deal was enacted in the 1930s. It was a DIRECT OPPOSITION to Capitalism in that it was created to "Correct Free Markets" which was a huge media propaganda to further paint Capitalism as evil. The New Deal programs were very popular from the 1930s to the 1960s. Where was the Pro-Capitalism then?

- Lyndon B Johnson enacted his "War on Poverty" programs in the 1960s with further expanding Social Programs. It was painted as another "Correction of Free Markets" Anti-Capitalist program to demonize Capitalism. Where was the Pro-Capitalism then?

- It wasn't until Reagan came into power and Decentralized majority of all industries and lowered Taxes... did the "Pro Capitalism" come into play. When you had the "Rags to Riches" stories of people becoming millionaires overnight. Whether by starting their own business or investing in the Stock Market, they became Capitalists
 

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@UpAndComing, you're so fukking blind on this subject I don't even know where to begin. :dahell:



I can't even POSSIBLY imagine what reality you're getting your talking points from. There is no fukking historian on Earth who would claim the USA elite was anything other than desperately pro-capitalist in the 1930s through 1960s. Just having a social program doesn't make you anti-capitalist, the social programs were a desperate attempt to save capitalism rather than turn towards socialism.

If all the pro-capitalism shyt was just "nationalism" or "anti-communism", then why were we constantly using state resources to attack socialist nations that had nothing to do with the USSR or communism at all? Why did the USA install the Shah in Iran, dispose Prince Sihanouk in Cambodia, violently kill the Sandinistas in Nicaragua, and use the CIA to overthrow Nkrumah in Ghana, when none of those governments were communist or connected to the USSR? There are DOZENS of examples like that.


Hmmm......let's see if Martin Luther King Jr. in the 1960s felt like the USA had been anti-capitalist for his entire life, like you claim:

We are saying that something is wrong … with capitalism…. There must be better distribution of wealth and maybe America must move toward a democratic socialism.

"I am not saying that there is a conscious move toward socialism, not even by labor, the move is certainly unconscious. But there is a definite move away from capitalism, whether we conceive of it as conscious or unconscious Capitalism finds herself like a losing football team in the last quarter trying all types of tactics to survive."

You can’t talk about solving the economic problem of the Negro without talking about billions of dollars. You can’t talk about ending the slums without first saying profit must be taken out of slums. You’re really tampering and getting on dangerous ground because you are messing with folk then. You are messing with captains of industry. Now this means that we are treading in difficult water, because it really means that we are saying that something is wrong with capitalism.

The evils of capitalism are as real as the evils of militarism and evils of racism.

We must recognize that we can’t solve our problem now until there is a radical redistribution of economic and political power… this means a revolution of values and other things. We must see now that the evils of racism, economic exploitation and militarism are all tied together… you can’t really get rid of one without getting rid of the others… the whole structure of American life must be changed. America is a hypocritical nation and [we] must put [our] own house in order.

Call it democracy, or call it democratic socialism, but there must be a better distribution of wealth within this country for all God’s children.

Capitalism forgets that life is social. And the kingdom of brotherhood is found neither in the thesis of communism nor the antithesis of capitalism, but in a higher synthesis.

And one day we must ask the question, ‘Why are there forty million poor people in America? And when you begin to ask that question, you are raising questions about the economic system, about a broader distribution of wealth.’ When you ask that question, you begin to question the capitalistic economy. And I’m simply saying that more and more, we’ve got to begin to ask questions about the whole society…

“I imagine you already know that I am much more socialistic in my economic theory than capitalistic… [Capitalism] started out with a noble and high motive… but like most human systems it fell victim to the very thing it was revolting against. So today capitalism has out-lived its usefulness.”

"I am convinced that capitalism has seen its best days in American, and not only in America, but in the entire world. It is a well known fact that no social institution can survive when it has outlived its usefullness. This, capitalism has done. It has failed to meet the needs of the masses."




So you're going to contradict MLK Jr. and tell him that his entire society that he was living in and all of its leaders weren't pro-capitalism?

Remember, Martin Luther King Jr. was DEMONIZED for having those views. He was constantly attacked for his socialist views and called a Commie even though he was never communist nor did he support Communist countries at all. What possible rationale do you see for that expect the defense of capitalism? Remember, when he was killed he wasn't even primarily focused on a Black rights campaign, he had transitioned to the Poor People's Campaign.



There is no rewriting of history that could make the USA anything but virulently pro-capitalist in the 1930s to 1960s. To even suggest a view is fukking insane. "Passed a social program" does NOT mean that they were anti-capitalist.
 

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Ignore communism - that's a dumb 19th-century philosophy that still built around power. People always talk ignorant as if communism is the only alternative when it's even newer than capitalism is and still ends up feeding the same power disaparities.

Yes, some form of socialism, but socialism can mean a billion things. I prefer libertarian socialism where the rules of the system are set so that power and wealth consistently equalize over time, rather than being hoarded over time, and thus you don't need any one person or organization to "own" the shyt, you just need a limited government to keep the rules enforced and the rest works itself out.


I'll give some examples:

1. You read the Old Testament and you'll see that profiting on interest from anyone other than your enemies was BANNED. You weren't allowed to profit off charging interest to fellow Israelites, you weren't allowed to profit off of charging interest to the poor, you weren't allowed to profit off of charging interest to anyone in need of basic goods. That ain't just a Jewish thing - the Christian church said interest was evil for most of its history, Muslims still say interest is evil, Buddhists said interest was evil, even Greek and Roman philosophers said interest was evil. It's plain as fukk that interest is a way for people with money to exploit poor people, and everyone saw there was naturally something wrong with that. But now it's accepted because we worship capitalism.

There is a TON of other things wrong with interest, like the fact that it encourages constant economic growth and cutthroat mentality, constant competition, constant overexploitation of resources, because with interest you are forced to always provide more than you have because the interest means you have to pay back more than you got. It doesn't just exploit the poor, it fukks up the WHOLE system and keeps any equilibrium from ever being reached. There are entire books on the subject.

So how do yo address that? Well first, ban interest, full stop. But how do you get people to still loan money to those in need if they're not going to profit off of it? In religious systems like Christianity, you just made it a religious requirement to lend to the poor. But without a religious component, what you can instead do is set negative interest rates. Basically, any money that is hoarded slowly loses worth over time. Any cash that is old slowly loses value over time. Thus you have a huge incentive to loan out your money, rather than hoarding it, and all you ask for is the same # back or even less because at least that's better than losing what you're saving altogether.



2. Businesses collectively owned by all the employees, rather than just the business owner. Decisions are made by the worker collective, not just by the boss. When the business prospers, every prospers accordingly.



3. UBI, so everyone in society has the bare basics they need and you can't blackmail someone to do something due to their lack of basic needs.



4. Separate education, health care, and political power from money. Those basic societal services should not be tied to what you can afford.





That's just a start, I could keep going on for a while. But you get the idea. Like I said, there are books on this shyt if you're interested, and plenty with strong historical backing.
I agree with 4.
3 to me is simply an expansion of the social safety net which I agree with.
2 doesn't make much sense in the long run. Sure when the business prosper everyone prospers but during downturns does everyone take a hit? Who's more likely to leave a failing company? Employee number 1 or employee number 1000? Should they both even have the same ownership stake? Does leaving a company means leaving your stake regardless of the work you may have put in?
1 scares me. The n-order consequences can halt progress or simply move things to the black market. I could agree with capping interest to but an outright ban why wouldn't ppl move their money towards other assets like say Bitcoin or something. I see an authoritarian government necessary to regulate this.
 

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I agree with 4.
3 to me is simply an expansion of the social safety net which I agree with.
2 doesn't make much sense in the long run. Sure when the business prosper everyone prospers but during downturns does everyone take a hit? Who's more likely to leave a failing company? Employee number 1 or employee number 1000? Should they both even have the same ownership stake? Does leaving a company means leaving your stake regardless of the work you may have put in?
1 scares me. The n-order consequences can halt progress or simply move things to the black market. I could agree with capping interest to but an outright ban why wouldn't ppl move their money towards other assets like say Bitcoin or something. I see an authoritarian government necessary to regulate this.


Thanks for the cosign on #3 and #4.

There are tons of successful companies that already run on #2, so you can't treat it as implausible - it already exists. You don't need to have any single way of doing it, you just need to ensure that every employee has a stake or a say, and how the business operates (for example, who to lay off during a downturn) is a decision collectively made by the employees or made by someone appointed to do that by the employees and looking out for their interests, rather than being made by an owner looking out for his own interests. And yes, leaving the company means cashing out your stake and losing your say in the company, why shouldn't that make sense? You still get recompensed for the value you put in while you were there, but you're not going to keep making money off of other people's work after you leave.

#1 doesn't require a government any more authoritarian than our current government, which already necessitates a constant regulation of the money supply and all asset classes. And yes, people WOULD move away from cash into other asset classes, because hoarding cash would become useless. But that's the whole point. It's never been cost-beneficial to hoard natural assets over time because most assets cost money and lose value over time unless you use they actively. If you hoard grain, for example, then it costs money to maintain it and you deal with steady losses over time unless you flip it. Money is complete unnatural in that it gains value over time rather than degrading and costs virtually nothing to store, so money broke the system. A negative interest system would simply make money more like all our other goods - a potential burden to hoard, so that flow is emphasized rather than stasis.

Your idea that it would halt progress is actually the exact opposite of what would happen - in a negative-interest system constant ingenuity and constant moving of assets is incentivized, rather than the current system which incentivizes hoarding. There's actually more process because the wealthy are forced to be more active and the access is more distributed.



If you want to read more, this guy breaks down what's wrong with interest:



And here he breaks down how negative-interest economics would work:




Those are just two chapters pulled out of the book, there are other chapters that expound on those chapters and the whole book is fire.
 

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This post and thread trivializes mental health issues.
No it doesn’t it. Worrying about where you’re going to sleep or get your next meal will drive people insane.

Working a dead in job or multiple jobs every day doing the same routines over and over again is mentally taxing.

Living with someone just to split the bills and acting like you’re in love will drive people to kill.

Being on perpetual debt while constantly being fed images of wealthy people over and over again can make people bitter and depressed.


Millions of people wake up and work every day knowing their lives have no purpose other than to procreate, pay bills, retired pay more bills and possibly still have to work before dying. That’s it.
 
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