It seems like most people only discuss him nowadays as an ambassador of the game versus his basketball resume. I can pull up his accolades (pretty impressive) just like anyone else but what do any of us really know about him?
Was he a good facilitator? defender? what was his offensive skillset?
So often you're forced to rely on hoopla & second hand stories that I feel it's easy to overlook this guy because there isn't enough film of his peak years. Even if we don't have much game footage of Wilt we understand the type of things he brought to the table...same with Bill, Jerry West etc
When people talk about top 5 sfs of all time nowadays you're getting bron, kd & bird off top as the top 3 with maybe like a scottie or kawhi rounding it out but rarely do you hear Dr J's name thrown out there
What do ya'll think?
If you talk to most basketball heads, not casuals but real heads with a working knowledge and respect for the history of the sport; and if you peruse most real lists; they mirror each other abd The Doctor is
still considered Top 5 for his position, and Top 20 All-Time, 35 years post-retirement...
He isn't mentioned as often because a)everyone gets lost with time, and b)as big as he was there were bigger stars during the time he played. He was The Guy in the ABA but when he competed against better talent in the NBA, while he still held his own as one of The League's premier players, he wasn't the singular show anymore...
And i thought it was pretty well understood Doc wasnt a great shooter or defender. He was a great scorer though, could hit a short j and his rim pressure was ungodly at his peak, his athleticism and slashing especially in transition were deadly. All this information is out there if one seeks it, it isn't hidden...
But I do agree he isn't talked about as much as others. Gotta think spending 5 years in the ABA hurt his visibility too since the NBA doesn't recognize ABA stats...
His NBA prime was basically 1976-84, and his numbers aren't really eye-popping in this stretch---->roughly 23/7/4, 50% shooting in both regular season and playoffs. And he had some really, really good teams around him. He was a winner, took the Sixers to three Finals (0-3) and five ECF (3-2) as a #1, but couldn't close the deal til Moses showed up, which is an indictment on his pedigree as a team's best player. He's basically the lesser version of West, and Moses the lesser version of Wilt, in the sense he could carry a team to a point but needed a better teammate to actualize championship success...
Or, sans winning a chip before the star teammate came, he was to the Sixers what Wade was to the Heat, and what Steph was to The Dubs, and adjusted his role to make room for a better player on his franchise...
Personally, I find him to be slightly overrated; again not by the typical fan where his name is rarely mentioned, I mean by actual heads who have studied the sport and consider him Top 20 still. The margin between he and Kawhi is currently razor-thin, to use a modern player at his position, and I think durability and the lack of longevity currently keep Doc ahead of Kawhi---->but I strongly believe Kawhi's peak was higher and Kawhi is the demonstrably better all-around player. Kawhi gives us one more year of what he's looked like in his prime and that's probably enough for me to jump him over Dr J, it's borderline as is....
Dr J is an All-Time great player but there were several better players in his day when he played against the best players in the world in the NBA, and there are more greater players historically...
No snark but was it? Genuinely asking cause that was before my time. I remember on that title team Dr.J was a star but it seems like the consensus is that Moses Malone was the best player and the main reason the team won. Not to say he was basic but maybe he wasn't on that level where it's different stuff to discuss in depth about his game.
Like you said even when people were talking about him more regularly it was always about his athleticism, finishing at the rim, and dunking. I never heard anyone talk about his defense, passing, or spacing the floor with a J.
This is it, the real question is why Moses is overshadowed so much. Widely viewed as a Top 20 All-Timer still, 27-years post-retirement. Widely viewed as greater historically than Dr J, as greater in their era and overlapping prime, and as the best player on their '83 title team that is viewed as one of the best teams ever...
He was younger than Doc so his prime started and ended later than Doc's but wasn't really shorter than Doc's, his peak was higher than Doc's and his scale of dominance was higher than Doc's...
When he got Moses he was almost at the tail end of his career. Also, Moses was the man, 3x MVP. Which leads to another question of why no one brings Moses up as an all time great when the greatest big men are mentioned? He’s a 3x MVP and 12x All Star , 8x All NBA, and Finals MVP. Drafted out of High School.
WHATS YOUR POINT?
for the Spurs.
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