Black History Moment: African Elites in India

[Box Cutta]

Thanks for moving this thread here!

Anyways, I might feature this thread, because not only has this been an interesting subject to me due to showing that Africans were indeed influential around the world, but even had their own STATES OUTSIDE OF AFRICA and that the Moors weren't the only ones, but I believe almost all of the Coli should know about for the reasons I stated.

I also found additional and interesting sources from another forum about the Siddi dynasty and how they ruled. I even found out that the Janjira state remained technically independent even while the British controlled India! And that the Siddi dynasty or "habshi" not only rivaled the British in navel power, but also defeated them. This kinda supports my claims that people from East Africa were a navel powerhouse in the Indian ocean.

Maybe Indian poster @GetInTheTruck can add to this.

Also I see no one posted this images of the Janjira state

The island of Janjira (from jazeera, island or peninsula in Arabic) was a formidable fortress entirely surrounded by large walls with 22 rounded bastions. It was also known as Habsan (from Habsha, Ethiopia).
The African Diaspora in the Indian Ocean World

This is pretty cool, thanks for the info.

 

[Leasy]

Props will give this a watch later tomorrow

 

[GetInTheTruck]

But before they had successfully resisted conquest from the Marathas. And as for the second sentence, why would India would them to be apart of India after that? And if India was fighting off Muslim rule why would they want an Islamic state apart of India? And you forget that the Siddis were also fighting the British.

Like I said, if the Siddis fought the British it was purely for their own interests. Once the Portuguese and the Moguls lost power, they sucked up to the British to help defend them, and it worked for a while.

I don't understand your second question. Of course India is going to claim Janjira as it's own one it was able to do so. Why would they let some foreigners who at the end of the day are remnants of foreign rule of their lands just continue to chill there with their own state?

 

[Bawon Samedi]

Like I said, if the Siddis fought the British it was purely for their own interests. Once the Portuguese and the Moguls lost power, they sucked up to the British to help defend them, and it worked for a while.

No offense, but you're not being fair. I know that you're Indian and Indian history is important to you, but when did the Janjira Why wouldn't the Siddis look after themselves. It seems to me that you're looking at Janjira as a once independent state, but a state that was always apart of mainland India who were traitors.

The Siddis not only fought the Portuguese and Moguls but also the British. And won.
The Siddis of Janjira with their seacraft defied the Mughals, Maharathas and later the Portuguese, Dutch and English until 1736 AD"
Asian Strategic and Military Perspective

And reading more into this I found out that they didn't just defy the British, but the British governor of Bombay surrendered after suffering a lot of deaths against Siddi Kasim and Yakub Khan. He then paid a fine to continue trading in the region. Kasin Khan was noted by the British as being very difficult to defeat in navel battle. For nearly two centuries there was a nonstop power struggle between the British and Siddi naval forces.

Not only that, but some sources say the Siddis were the more powerful navel force in the area.
"the strongest actual power on the Konkan coast was not these well-known European trading nations, but the Sidis of Janjira, an Abyssinian Muslim family who held sea forts and some large nearby land possessions, and maintained an extensive navy to protect its merchant shipping"
The Marathas 1600-1818, Part 2, Volume 4


Siddis looking out for their own interest? Maybe. Sucking up to the British? Doubt it.

Explain how were the Siddis "sucking up to the British", when they were not only able to go toe to toe with the British in navel battle which the British are good at, but more importantly deflect British invasions!

I don't understand your second question. Of course India is going to claim Janjira as it's own one it was able to do so. Why would they let some foreigners who at the end of the day are remnants of foreign rule of their lands just continue to chill there with their own state?

But you said the Marathas wanted to rid India of Islam. Why acquire a Islamic state? Its not like the Janjira state by the time of India's independence was a threat. Seems to me India too was looking out for their own interest.

 

[GetInTheTruck]

No offense, but you're not being fair. I know that you're Indian and Indian history is important to you, but when did the Janjira Why wouldn't the Siddis look after themselves. It seems to me that you're looking at Janjira as a once independent state, but a state that was always apart of mainland India who were traitors.

Actually I thought I made it clear that I understood the Siddis were looking after themselves. But so were the Marathas who viewed them as just another face of Muslim ie; foreign rule in India, which they were. Their flag is nothing but the Ottoman flag. They helped the British sometimes, fought them other times. Either way their interests had nothing to do with the native Indian population.

The Siddis not only fought the Portuguese and Moguls but also the British. And won.
The Siddis of Janjira with their seacraft defied the Mughals, Maharathas and later the Portuguese, Dutch and English until 1736 AD"
Asian Strategic and Military Perspective

And reading more into this I found out that they didn't just defy the British, but the British governor of Bombay surrendered after suffering a lot of deaths against Siddi Kasim and Yakub Khan. He then paid a fine to continue trading in the region. Kasin Khan was noted by the British as being very difficult to defeat in navel battle. For nearly two centuries there was a nonstop power struggle between the British and Siddi naval forces.

Not only that, but some sources say the Siddis were the more powerful navel force in the area.
"the strongest actual power on the Konkan coast was not these well-known European trading nations, but the Sidis of Janjira, an Abyssinian Muslim family who held sea forts and some large nearby land possessions, and maintained an extensive navy to protect its merchant shipping"
The Marathas 1600-1818, Part 2, Volume 4


Siddis looking out for their own interest? Maybe. Sucking up to the British? Doubt it.

Explain how were the Siddis "sucking up to the British", when they were not only able to go toe to toe with the British in navel battle which the British are good at, but more importantly deflect British invasions!

I don't think I ever disputed their fighting and naval prowess, I'm just telling you what it was. They did suck up to the British after the Marathas started to seriously threaten their position, the British helped them out and even planted their flag in Janjira. They used to fight a lot among themselves and had the British come and mediate their quarrels and then impose their own regulations on them as recompense....you can call that stuff what you want, I call it sucking up. That's OK though because a lot of people sucked up the British.

But you said the Marathas wanted to rid India of Islam. Why acquire a Islamic state? Its not like the Janjira state by the time of India's independence was a threat. Seems to me India too was looking out for their own interest.

Absolutely India was looking out for it's own interests, as they should. The siddis of Janjira are foreigners who have never operated with the interests of the natives in mind. On top of that they're Muslim and they would have proven to become a menace sooner or later. There's no way they should have been allowed to exist independently, too many risks, zero measurable benefits.