Bill Simmons goes in on the Hitman

[dh86]

So wouldn't that be more on Austin instead of Bret?

I know the feud with Bret was Austin's first breakthrough into the main event but by that point he was going to get there regardless.

Not necessarily Austin had to dodge some minefields, a double turn was the story of the match and the top face, Bret turned himself heel getting himself out of the way for Austin to shine more. For a double turn to work the heel has to win

 

[dh86]

A lot of people don't know what they are talking about in this thread. When Bret Hart was the guy the WWF did have it's lowest ratings but when HBK took over in 96 at Wrestlemania 12 the ratings for WWF went up big until the nwo debuted. Nobody was going to beat the nwo when they just started out. So people saying HBK was the guy which led to low ratings it isn't true it was because of the nwo why wwf ratings went down and wcw went up.

When you say Bret Hart most people think montreal screwjob. When you say Shawn Michaels most people think one of the greatest in ring performers off all-time . Bret Hart let the Montreal screwjob define him while HBK created his own legacy.

Diesel was champ from November 94-December 95 and the show was built around his shytty programs. So which time period are you talking about? 1993-94 when raw first started? Funny. In that time period show attendance was as important as tv ratings and it's known that the worst drawing champs are JBL, Diesel and Shawn. Shawn Michaels as champ started Nitros 84 week streak. When raw got that 1.8 rating and Vince Russo became booker, who was champ? WWF NEEDED Bret Hart as that bridge between Hogan era and Austin era. Shawn wasn't up to par. Yeah Shawn eventually had more great matches than Bret, but Bret also had a STROKE

 

[HollywoodP]

Brets 2nd WCW theme was better than his WWF Music...there I said it.

 

[TrueEpic08]

Diesel was champ from November 94-December 95 and the show was built around his shytty programs. So which time period are you talking about? 1993-94 when raw first started? Funny. In that time period show attendance was as important as tv ratings and it's known that the worst drawing champs are JBL, Diesel and Shawn. Shawn Michaels as champ started Nitros 84 week streak. When raw got that 1.8 rating and Vince Russo became booker, who was champ? WWF NEEDED Bret Hart as that bridge between Hogan era and Austin era. Shawn wasn't up to par. Yeah Shawn eventually had more great matches than Bret, but Bret also had a STROKE

Saved me the time. It doesn't matter how Shawn's reign started out in the ratings, or, honestly, what happened on a rival show. As the champion, your job is (or at least was) to be the guy that people pay to see, first and foremost. From 1992-1997, Bret was the guy, period, beyond whatever was going on anywhere, that WWF fans came to see the most. Just because Shawn had good ratings that went into a tailspin doesn't mean that we can pin everything on the nWo, it just means that Shawn didn't do his job on top. I'm not saying that he got a lot of help, but when you're the guy holding the belt when your flagship show gets a 1.8, you're going to get some deserved funny looks. It's not as if there was any type of decision by the WWF that could have actually forced a drop in the ratings (like there was with CM Punk). All things were equal for Shawn and Bret, and nothing like that ratings drop happened to Bret when he was on top (in fact, he was the guy getting calls while injured to do international tours solely to make sure numbers didn't collapse).

I don't even want to address the preposterous point about Bret letting the Screwjob define him, especially when you turn right around and insinuate that Shawn isn't somewhat defined by it as well. They're both marked by their actions in Montreal, mostly because it was a very significant event in the history of Pro Wrestling, but also because people refuse to shut the fukk up about it. Hard to get around the event when everyone wants to conduct discourse on it long after the parties involved have buried the hatchet.

 

[Nintendough]

Bret is in my top 10. His attire was piff, his music was classic he put on classics and helped create the attitude era.

 

[DoubleJ13]

Wet hair...

Bill should stick to acting like he knows everything about basketball.

 

[KEEPITTRILLA]

Bret sucks and ain't shyt fakkits stop defending that fakkit

 

[showtime]

Diesel was champ from November 94-December 95 and the show was built around his shytty programs. So which time period are you talking about? 1993-94 when raw first started? Funny. In that time period show attendance was as important as tv ratings and it's known that the worst drawing champs are JBL, Diesel and Shawn. Shawn Michaels as champ started Nitros 84 week streak. When raw got that 1.8 rating and Vince Russo became booker, who was champ? WWF NEEDED Bret Hart as that bridge between Hogan era and Austin era. Shawn wasn't up to par. Yeah Shawn eventually had more great matches than Bret, but Bret also had a STROKE

When HBK became champ wwf's ratings jumped up higher then they had been in years and it stayed that way until the NWO. So HBK was suppose to beat the NWO? Even Austin at his most popular couldn't beat the NWO they were neck and neck until 99. HBK as champ didn't start the 84 week streak the NWO started it.

 

[patscorpio]

nikkas is really cool trying to take shots at the great bret the hitman hart now that he's old and messed up from his strokes ..shyt's disgusting .
shyt even this today's version of hitman would still stretch simmons dungeon style and have him screaming like a bytch

 

[showtime]

Saved me the time. It doesn't matter how Shawn's reign started out in the ratings, or, honestly, what happened on a rival show. As the champion, your job is (or at least was) to be the guy that people pay to see, first and foremost. From 1992-1997, Bret was the guy, period, beyond whatever was going on anywhere, that WWF fans came to see the most. Just because Shawn had good ratings that went into a tailspin doesn't mean that we can pin everything on the nWo, it just means that Shawn didn't do his job on top. I'm not saying that he got a lot of help, but when you're the guy holding the belt when your flagship show gets a 1.8, you're going to get some deserved funny looks. It's not as if there was any type of decision by the WWF that could have actually forced a drop in the ratings (like there was with CM Punk). All things were equal for Shawn and Bret, and nothing like that ratings drop happened to Bret when he was on top (in fact, he was the guy getting calls while injured to do international tours solely to make sure numbers didn't collapse).

I don't even want to address the preposterous point about Bret letting the Screwjob define him, especially when you turn right around and insinuate that Shawn isn't somewhat defined by it as well. They're both marked by their actions in Montreal, mostly because it was a very significant event in the history of Pro Wrestling, but also because people refuse to shut the fukk up about it. Hard to get around the event when everyone wants to conduct discourse on it long after the parties involved have buried the hatchet.

You say from 92-97 Bret was the guy then blame HBK for the ratings which is it? who was the guy?

WCW was beating WWF in the ratings while Bret was champ then HBK won the belt and WWF's ratings went thru the roof and they were beating wcw until the nwo formed. Are you too dense to not be able to put a and b together and see the nwo was the reason the ratings shifted? they were must-see tv at that time and no matter who as champ people were going to watch wcw.

 

[PHamm]

bill simmons sounds like a guy who is probably still bitter about Bret's anti USA gimmick when he was a youngin

 

[Quarterback]

I don't think there's a single poster here who couldn't whup Simmons' ass

 

[Henzo]

Bill talks about this around the 49 minute mark

http://espn.go.com/espnradio/play?id=9605992